This expansion showcased how people do not enjoy m+ at all

[justandulas]

Maybe R.io just got way more popular since Legion, not M+...

That addon was irrelevant in legion. False argument

[Frozenbro]

And that's not a problem.

The thing is that M+ has a huge influx of players because a) it's the best way to gear your character hands down and

Up to a certain point, cause the spam of m+ at 1 point is completely useless when you start searching for the real upgrades past the farmable 210 that m+ gives, which means m+ is esentially dead content for every single high end raider except for the weekly m+ that you stomp anyways.

[TheFirstOnes]

Love doing M+ with my guild. We do casual Normal and Heroic runs a lot (I'm 10/10 Normal, about 5/10 Heroic), and my guild basically carried me through some +11's-+14's. We didn't time the 14 in the end, but we still beat it, and I was able to get a 226 chest piece from the vault. They're chill asf, and tried helping me a ton with getting through each boss (Though, admittedly, I died a lot). Hell, there's almost never a rage moment with them, especially in raids, where we've wiped a fuck ton. So, yeah, M+ is fun with a good guild, cause even when we don't time the key's, they're chill about it cause it's still free loot in the end (Not to mention lots of guildies have a +15 anyway, so it's free valor and a free 226 piece either way. But they usually time it, as a lot of players in my guild also do Mythic raiding or rated arenas). So, yeah, M+ is fun with friends and a great guild.

MYTHIC PLUS PUGS, ON THE OTHER HAND...

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Fuck. That. Shit. Tons of bot carries in the fuckin Group finder, everyone is asking for 220+ mf's for +9's, cause pugs cannot do shit in M+, nobody does the affix's right, it's fucked.

I remember getting into a +5 ToP with some geared guys, and we ended the dungeon like 10-20 minutes AFTER the timer went off, because the same 2 guys kept fucking the lich bitches mechanics up. They also kept on fucking up the banner shit from the big boi boss (Forgot his name), they kept hitting the chains from Gorechop (I'm not fuckin kidding), and we wiped like 5-6 times from the final boss cause everyone was standing in the necro-shades ramming range.

[ellieg]

Im honest and i don't want to insult anybody even tho i know this does not sound that way, but i really can't understand people who are this much into mythic+ and i find it kind of stupid?

Its repeating the same shit multiple times a week with various levels of inbalanced HP pools and its... I think i would go insane if i did this for more than a few months each expansion. Of course its a wet dream for managers. super low effort work and it keeps some people entertained for 2 years and all you got to add is another stupid and aribitrary negative for the player to chew through.

And if i would not get loot for it, i would pass on Dungeons entirely after doing them Heroic once or twice. They are never that entertaining and especially as a Healer all i get is an increased heartrate because Pugs are the worst...

For me it's about mastery. I enjoy playing something hard, mastering it, and getting closer to my limit. The normal and heroic dungeons are Faceroll. Can ignore everything. As it scales higher in mythic, there's more shit to dodge, an interrupt order is needed, pathway needs to be optimized, tank and healer cds rotated, dps need to be executing their rotation near flawlessly. Its not for everyone but I like that theu have something in game for me like this.

[Glorious Leader]

There's definitely a slice of the community that hates M+ but only runs it because the gear is that good.

And I do think that's a problem Blizz has to sort out. How they uncouple the two issues without causing the death of M+ I don't know. This may end up a fix that's part of a larger redesign of endgame gearing that the game seems in desperate need of. Beyond just bandages like Titanforging or Corruption or "Let Loot Be Loot."

Thats ridiculous. Its a problem to be solved no doubt but itsto be solved by therapists not by developers because the solution always becomes gutting other peoples rewards. Nobody can have nice things because try hards can't help themselves. Fuck that

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Gear is only a tool to get the result.

I propose then we eliminate gear from all content then. Template everything.

[erifwodahs]

I propose then we eliminate gear from all content then. Template everything.

TBF I would not mind that as far as mythic progression goes and pushing keys goes. Enter key, put your gear/conduits from vendor and start the key - challenge mode with scaling difficulty instead of static plus classes which don't feel dogshit because you have 10% haste only.

BUT it's a MMORPG for people of many interests, not a vacuum for m+ pushers/mythic progress raiders so I don't think we could have that

[Yuli]

TBF I would not mind that as far as mythic progression goes and pushing keys goes. Enter key, put your gear/conduits from vendor and start the key - challenge mode with scaling difficulty instead of static plus classes which don't feel dogshit because you have 10% haste only.

BUT it's a MMORPG for people of many interests, not a vacuum for m+ pushers/mythic progress raiders so I don't think we could have that

As a spec that doesn't need very much haste, I'm triggered by your statement. /s
(I agree btw)

[Glorious Leader]

TBF I would not mind that as far as mythic progression goes and pushing keys goes. Enter key, put your gear/conduits from vendor and start the key - challenge mode with scaling difficulty instead of static plus classes which don't feel dogshit because you have 10% haste only.

BUT it's a MMORPG for people of many interests, not a vacuum for m+ pushers/mythic progress raiders so I don't think we could have that

Then I guess gear isn't "only a tool to get results"

[Depakote]

I never enjoyed Mythic+, it just makes me not want to play the game, because i don't have much fun.

I enjoyed more the BC-LK systems, and i did pandaria and WoD challenge modes, but just because i liked the rewards (And i did enjoy it, because i was pursuing something i really wanted that trascended in the game, over seasonal loot).

But i can be mainly because i don't enjoy how classes work eversince Legion, it's never been the same since then to me.

This, all of this.

[Frozenbro]

Then I guess gear isn't "only a tool to get results"

At some point in raiding it is, i know many raiders that give up their spot for many bosses just because they dont care about the gear anymore, reason being you are already 10/10M so the goal was met, no need for gear so people just bring alts and what not, believe it or not gear whores are usually the ones who are most likely never getting close to bis since they dont mythic raid.

[Glorious Leader]

At some point in raiding it is, i know many raiders that give up their spot for many bosses just because they dont care about the gear anymore, reason being you are already 10/10M so the goal was met, no need for gear so people just bring alts and what not, believe it or not gear whores are usually the ones who are most likely never getting close to bis since they dont mythic raid.

Okay so template raid content. No more gear to drop.

[Frozenbro]

Okay so template raid content. No more gear to drop.

I wouldnt mind, but thats just me, what are you trying to achieve here? are you searching for some kind of aproval? xd or you wanna make me agree with you in some weird way?

[erifwodahs]

Then I guess gear isn't "only a tool to get results"

Well, for some dungeons/raids/WQ/PvP is a tool to get a result (gear/char progression) or we have people who use gear to m+/pvp/raid/WQ/Tmog farm and whatnot.
Regardless of that, gear is used as a tool by those who seek gear and gear is used as tool by those who seek progress in other things.

[archelos91]

is it ironic that someone 2 "recent forum posts" above this one is asking for heroic+ in classic tbc? lmao.

[Lurker1]

Personally I have mixed relation with M+.

I like the scalable dungeons, yet I don't like the time limit stuff.

We have a blast with our group of guildies doing them, but if there was not any actual gear reward for it, I doubt we would ever bother doing them (see MoP / WoD challange modes, where gear from the weekly quest was pitiful)

As for the topic itself - I can imagine most of the people doing M+, do not actually like them. Most raiders in this game are Normal / HC ones, for them M+ vault is the easiest option for decent upgrades - you need to do just +8 to have in your vault something with higher ilvl than HC raid drop, +10 will get you something already 7 ilvl higher than the "main" content you are doing. Yes, PVP can get you better rewards, yet M+ is more straightforward, you just run 1-4 dungs per week, and get the stuff from the vault, and you are done.

I can imagine many people hating M+ and doing this as a weekly 1-4h chore, just for the gear, as it provides the easiest and highest gear via the vault in regards to other content they are doing (exactly the same situation with mythic raiders hating PVP this expansion but doing it for the vault)

Doing 4x 8+ keys is way easier and less time consuming for a "standard player" than downing 6 HC bosses, and it gets you better stuff in the vault.

And the problem is - there is no clear solution for this as you cannot really balance difficulty/reward between raid and m+ where one had 4 levels of difficulty, other at least 15.

I guess the only decent (yet still wonky) solution would be to have separate gear for raids and M+. Have some system like WoD PVP, where for raids, PVP and outdoors the ilvl would be capped to HC raid level for +15 gear and Mythic raid for +20, but when you put in the key, it would go up to our current m+ gear ilvl based on which key it did drop.

But then, there would be huge exodus from the mythic dungeons.

Same here but i hate it so much i don't even bother inless its a mega dungeon instead i know that can't add M+ to those which to me is a massive +.

[Edward Wu]

I used to love dungeons back in Vanilla and BC and even some of Wrath (The 3.3 dungeons were awesome) but I just can't get into M+ at all. I'm not a fan of the meta on a fundamental level. I don't like the timer in the first place, and I don't like the gameplay that springs out of it being there.

Also, fuck e-sports and fuck anyone designing for that. Just fuck off with that shit already.

[Frozenbro]

Same here but i hate it so much i don't even bother inless its a mega dungeon instead i know that can't add M+ to those which to me is a massive +.

Arent those dungeons eventually added to the mythic+ pool anyways? xd they just divide them in 2 wings and done, mega dungeon irrelevant in a matter of weeks.

[Xires]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

It's like...it's like you waited all your life for this moment....go get 'em, Tiger!!!!!

[Glorious Leader]

Well, for some dungeons/raids/WQ/PvP is a tool to get a result (gear/char progression) or we have people who use gear to m+/pvp/raid/WQ/Tmog farm and whatnot.
Regardless of that, gear is used as a tool by those who seek gear and gear is used as tool by those who seek progress in other things.

According to you its "only a tool" but I propose we eliminate this tool or at least the need for it

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I wouldnt mind, but thats just me, what are you trying to achieve here? are you searching for some kind of aproval? xd or you wanna make me agree with you in some weird way?

The "its just me" part was what I was looking for really. Its a tacit acknowledgement that templating content would not be very satisfying for most. Ergo gear is not simple a tool.

[Frozenbro]

The "its just me" part was what I was looking for really. Its a tacit acknowledgement that templating content would not be very satisfying for most. Ergo gear is not simple a tool.

It certainly isnt for many, hence why i mentioned gear whores (that obviously hate SL cause their best friend titanforging is gone), but im not lying to you in saying that for most mythic raiders that actually finish content, gear is the tool for that hall of fame/cutting edge, but it is true that gear is the goal for many, i mean we can just look at this forum and see how many guys demand more gear thrown their way cause their character is "stuck".