Sylvanas won't be getting redemption.

[Swnem]

I think she and Anduin made a deal to double cross the Jailer, but Tyrande is gonna kill her regardless.

[Thelxi]

Redemption for what?? being a strong and independent woman?

[TheFirstOnes]

She will get Darth Vader-ed. It's astonishing how many people aren't seeing it coming.

Anduin is Luke Skywalker, and Sylvanas is Darth Vader. The story will end with her sacrificing herself to take down the Jailor.

She'll likely die, but not the Jailer. That is our battle.

But yes, I do agree with this. Been tryna say this shit since December.

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Redemption for what?? being a strong and independent woman?

She's also bat shit crazy and evil asf, but whatever

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The Sylvanas ending has already been written. Been so since 2013.

Here's a preview...

Way to miss the entire point of Sylvanas' character. She and Kerrigan are not the same person. Just because you dislike where their storylines went, that doesn't mean they're alike in any capacity.

If you want something more akin to what they're actually going to with Sylvanas? I would look up a guy named "Darth Vader".

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Some people really need to get this through their thick skulls. Redemption means proper atonement, not forgiveness. It's the villain regretting their actions and willing to atone for them. The wronged party does not even have to have anything to do with it. It's largely internal.

Redemption=remorse+adequate penance

Redemption is not forgiveness, it's not justification of your past actions, it's not proving you right. We can't be talking about redemption when the character merely has a change of heart. Only when they'll pay the price.


I don't want Sylvanas redemption if they're gonna do it as they're doing it now, it's embarassing, as evidenced by latest Shadowlands cinematics.

If she wants to get "redeemed", just make her die going against the Jailer, have the Arbiter properly judge her soul and send her to Revendreth. That way, she can get fucked up by all her past sins, and if she doesn't atone for them...well...she gets yeeted back into the Maw. But if she DOES atone for them, then she can go to either good girl world somewhere, or stay as a Venthyr.

Either way, her "redemption" is going to be very bittersweet, and that's honestly the best path to take for her character, imo. Bittersweet.

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She came to terms with the death of her father, she's rejoined her people, she's accepted that she couldn't have saved Arthas by helping him destroy Stratholme, she was brought back into the fold of pan-faction peace through Anduin and the return of Thrall.

Yeah.

Closure.

Yeah, uhm...

She's got lots of shit left going for her. She's probably going to get Arthas PTSD with Anduin (If not, worse), and she's likely going to go through a lot more in SL. Thrall still has to deal with Draka, and the memories of Garrosh which are still haunting him to this day (Meaning, his arc isn't done yet), etc.

AND REGARDING ILLIDAN: No. His arc isn't done yet. He's still got some shit to do as the Jailer of Sargeras.

[Dartz1979]

If sylvanas is gonna die i aint gonna bother playing the game i cant bare any more losses of my favorite lady lore characters.

[Maljinwo]

Way to miss the entire point of Sylvanas' character. She and Kerrigan are not the same person. Just because you dislike where their storylines went, that doesn't mean they're alike in any capacity.

There are several parallels in both stories

-Important Female military member
-Is defeated during an attack by a massive horde of enemies
-The enemy transforms her and is forced to serve them, becoming a 'darker' version of herself
-She is put in command of some of the forces that defeated her and start wreaking havoc
-Gets free of the mind control and using those forces under her command aims to defeat other leaders of her new evil faction to assume control herself
-She manipulates an unlikely alliance with previous hostile groups to do this
-She brings into her control a male to serve as a champion and consort


Im not versed on Starcraft lore other than the games but they sure have a lot of common tropes between the 2

[Bee76]

She will get Darth Vader-ed. It's astonishing how many people aren't seeing it coming.

Anduin is Luke Skywalker, and Sylvanas is Darth Vader. The story will end with her sacrificing herself to take down the Jailor.

Hopefully not. I hope that Sylvanas is nearly dead, the cinematic starts. Psycho Tyrande appears to give her the final blow, but then Anduin strike down Tyrande to save his love Sylvanas. Both escape. Perfect and epic ending.
And somehow we have to get rid of whiny jaina. I still want her punished for the dalaran-purge. Maybe kadgar ?

But ofc you are right. She will be "darth-vadered" im so fed up of this bad and alliance centred story writing -.-

[Florena]

There are several parallels in both stories

-Important Female military member
-Is defeated during an attack by a massive horde of enemies
-The enemy transforms her and is forced to serve them, becoming a 'darker' version of herself
-She is put in command of some of the forces that defeated her and start wreaking havoc
-Gets free of the mind control and using those forces under her command aims to defeat other leaders of her new evil faction to assume control herself
-She manipulates an unlikely alliance with previous hostile groups to do this
-She brings into her control a male to serve as a champion and consort


Im not versed on Starcraft lore other than the games but they sure have a lot of common tropes between the 2

The main difference is that Starcraft 2 for better or worse retconned brood war. Instead of Kerrigan liking what she'd become and being evil of her own accord after the Overmind's death it sets up the 'queen of blades' as basically a separate persona from the true Kerrigan that is destroyed at the end of Wings of Liberty and then is a less evil person at least ostensibly throughout Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void. Going out of her way to minimize civilian deaths for example during the attack on Korhal at the end of HotS.

Sylvanas so far as I know hasn't been given any plot coupon to excuse her for her actions at Teldrassil.

[TheFirstOnes]

There are several parallels in both stories

-Important Female military member
-Is defeated during an attack by a massive horde of enemies
-The enemy transforms her and is forced to serve them, becoming a 'darker' version of herself
-She is put in command of some of the forces that defeated her and start wreaking havoc
-Gets free of the mind control and using those forces under her command aims to defeat other leaders of her new evil faction to assume control herself
-She manipulates an unlikely alliance with previous hostile groups to do this
-She brings into her control a male to serve as a champion and consort


Im not versed on Starcraft lore other than the games but they sure have a lot of common tropes between the 2

Ehhhh...

"-Important Female military member" Ok.

"-Is defeated during an attack by a massive horde of enemies" Nope. Arthas alone defeats her.

"-The enemy transforms her and is forced to serve them, becoming a 'darker' version of herself" Well, actually, all Arthas did was raise her into an undead Banshee. Her soul was warped, sure? But she herself wasn't really "changed". A darker version of herself is kinda fair though, I guess.

"-She is put in command of some of the forces that defeated her and start wreaking havoc" Kerrigan kinda had to do it though, and she fuckin hated the Terran's for abandoning her with the Zerg. Meanwhile, Sylvanas hated Hell, and the Jailer just slid into her DM's using a Val'kyr/Mawsworn servant like "hey bb want sum lyfe n pwa? ;P", so with Kerrigan it was more forced, while with Sylvanas it was more willing and deceptive cause of the Jailer's actions.

But, if you're talking about Arthas? She was never put in command of anything. She was just a slave before she just dipped from Arthas and tried going against him.

"-Gets free of the mind control and using those forces under her command aims to defeat other leaders of her new evil faction to assume control herself" Ok, this is pretty fair.

"-She manipulates an unlikely alliance with previous hostile groups to do this" Sylvanas never "manipulated" the Horde, tbh. She did shady shit while with them, and clearly saw them as a means to an end, but she started to like the Horde leaders more and more, before killing herself and acting as a friend of the Jailer's.

"-She brings into her control a male to serve as a champion and consort" Are you tryna say Nathanos actually got to fuck Sylvanas? AHAHAHAHA fuck nah, she's with Daddy Z rn (I'm never calling Zovaal "Daddy Z" again). Also, if you're talking the Jailer, and not Nathanos, then the roles would be reversed. Sylvanas is HIS champion.

[Kantoro]

Pie graph demonstrata:

[Maljinwo]

Ehhhh...

"-Important Female military member" Ok.

"-Is defeated during an attack by a massive horde of enemies" Nope. Arthas alone defeats her.

"-The enemy transforms her and is forced to serve them, becoming a 'darker' version of herself" Well, actually, all Arthas did was raise her into an undead Banshee. Her soul was warped, sure? But she herself wasn't really "changed". A darker version of herself is kinda fair though, I guess.

"-She is put in command of some of the forces that defeated her and start wreaking havoc" Kerrigan kinda had to do it though, and she fuckin hated the Terran's for abandoning her with the Zerg. Meanwhile, Sylvanas hated Hell, and the Jailer just slid into her DM's using a Val'kyr/Mawsworn servant like "hey bb want sum lyfe n pwa? ;P", so with Kerrigan it was more forced, while with Sylvanas it was more willing and deceptive cause of the Jailer's actions.

But, if you're talking about Arthas? She was never put in command of anything. She was just a slave before she just dipped from Arthas and tried going against him.

"-Gets free of the mind control and using those forces under her command aims to defeat other leaders of her new evil faction to assume control herself" Ok, this is pretty fair.

"-She manipulates an unlikely alliance with previous hostile groups to do this" Sylvanas never "manipulated" the Horde, tbh. She did shady shit while with them, and clearly saw them as a means to an end, but she started to like the Horde leaders more and more, before killing herself and acting as a friend of the Jailer's.

"-She brings into her control a male to serve as a champion and consort" Are you tryna say Nathanos actually got to fuck Sylvanas? AHAHAHAHA fuck nah, she's with Daddy Z rn (I'm never calling Zovaal "Daddy Z" again). Also, if you're talking the Jailer, and not Nathanos, then the roles would be reversed. Sylvanas is HIS champion.

Not feeling like copying and pasting the quote on each point so...

-Never said she was overwhelmed by a horde of undead. I said defeated DURING an attack.

-Sylvanas became sort of a field commander of Arthas. At least once as he gave her command over several banshees to track and kill human refugees

-I wasn't referring to the Horde (Though she would manipulate them later on) but Garithos' forces as she promised Lordaeron to him but killed him after attaining victory

-It's implied that Nathanos did fuck Sylvanas when they were alive and she still had some feelings for him as undead

[fuzzylogic111]

It is not only redemption or damnation There is a spectrum of outcomes between these two.
She could do something good, like free Anduin before she dies or give us something against the Jailer, and still have to pay for her crimes with death. She may get a nod of respect from some people for that, but it's not redemption.

It is wild to me that people even worry about her not getting sufficient justice. That has never been a problem before. What is worrisome?
I DO NOT trust Blizzard to make her death satisfying for those who actually take interest in the character and want a satisfying conclusion. Blizzard has done an awful job more than once: Deathwing, N'zoth. If you're going to worry, worry about them just making her generic crazy and killing her off without any insight into all the things that she vaguely(feafully) tries to describe in all these cinematics. Dead with no answers and no conclusion. That could actually happen.

[Eosia]

Way to miss the entire point of Sylvanas' character. She and Kerrigan are not the same person. Just because you dislike where their storylines went, that doesn't mean they're alike in any capacity.

If you want something more akin to what they're actually going to with Sylvanas? I would look up a guy named "Darth Vader".

I know of Darth Vader. Prior to Disney taking control and wiping out the post-RotJ canon he was never really redeemed. He appeared once as a force ghost to Leia and she refused to acknowledge him. She later forgave him, but the galaxy as a whole never saw him as Anakin Skywalker redeemed... he was still Darth Vader.

Sylvanas is going to have to have a grander role for any redemption whatsoever. Which is what happened with Kerrigan. She was forced to become the Queen of Blades against her will when she was killed by Arthas and raised as part of the Scourge. She gained her freedom when Ner'zhul's control weakened due to the power draining from the Frozen Throne just as Kerrigan was freed when the Zerg Overmind was killed. She was restored by the Xel'naga artifact but was then willingly transformed into the Primal Queen of Blades and set out to confront Amon, the fallen Xel'naga. She ultimately became one of them when Ouros gave her his essence and she took on Amon and defeated him.

In the end Kerrigan still slaughtered millions and would never be accepted as the Primal Queen of Blades even though Valerian and even the Protoss were aware of her true freedom and cause. All anyone would see is the Zerg creature that lead forces that massacred entire planets. Just like how Sylvanas massacred tons of people as Warchief, most notable being the burning of Teldrassil.

Now, of course, the LotV ending I linked is ambiguous. Is it Kerrigan using her power to end "the cycle" and pick up with Raynor where she left off? Is he just having a fantasy and goes off? Did she simply just appear to him in her human form and whisk him to her so they could be together even though she is a Xel'naga? But that does not matter.

Obviously they have something planned for Sylvanas. Simply killing her off is not going to be enough. We only know she is a raid boss, not that we kill her which has happened in the past such as Kil'jaeden in the Sunwell. Simply killing her off cements the "Garrosh 2.0" label that people have ripped on Blizzard for cramming her into.

[TheFirstOnes]

I know of Darth Vader. Prior to Disney taking control and wiping out the post-RotJ canon he was never really redeemed. He appeared once as a force ghost to Leia and she refused to acknowledge him. She later forgave him, but the galaxy as a whole never saw him as Anakin Skywalker redeemed... he was still Darth Vader.

Sylvanas is going to have to have a grander role for any redemption whatsoever. Which is what happened with Kerrigan. She was forced to become the Queen of Blades against her will when she was killed by Arthas and raised as part of the Scourge. She gained her freedom when Ner'zhul's control weakened due to the power draining from the Frozen Throne just as Kerrigan was freed when the Zerg Overmind was killed. She was restored by the Xel'naga artifact but was then willingly transformed into the Primal Queen of Blades and set out to confront Amon, the fallen Xel'naga. She ultimately became one of them when Ouros gave her his essence and she took on Amon and defeated him.

In the end Kerrigan still slaughtered millions and would never be accepted as the Primal Queen of Blades even though Valerian and even the Protoss were aware of her true freedom and cause. All anyone would see is the Zerg creature that lead forces that massacred entire planets. Just like how Sylvanas massacred tons of people as Warchief, most notable being the burning of Teldrassil.

Now, of course, the LotV ending I linked is ambiguous. Is it Kerrigan using her power to end "the cycle" and pick up with Raynor where she left off? Is he just having a fantasy and goes off? Did she simply just appear to him in her human form and whisk him to her so they could be together even though she is a Xel'naga? But that does not matter.

Obviously they have something planned for Sylvanas. Simply killing her off is not going to be enough. We only know she is a raid boss, not that we kill her which has happened in the past such as Kil'jaeden in the Sunwell. Simply killing her off cements the "Garrosh 2.0" label that people have ripped on Blizzard for cramming her into.

You do realize Blizzard could just kill off Sylvanas, send her to Revendreth, then still make it so that people won’t forgive her, no? It’s not like everyone is just going for forgive Sylvanas for her actions. Idk why you think this.

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Also, never said she would die or some shit like that in 9.1. In fact, I’m going against that...

[Eosia]

You do realize Blizzard could just kill off Sylvanas, send her to Revendreth, then still make it so that people won’t forgive her, no? It’s not like everyone is just going for forgive Sylvanas for her actions. Idk why you think this.

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Also, never said she would die or some shit like that in 9.1. In fact, I’m going against that...

Where did I say "everyone is going to forgive Sylvanas"?

[Powerogue]

I think it's fairly obvious Sylvanaas and Anduin are already working together, the cinematic where she turns him abruptly cuts off. I don't think she turned him at all, I think he's secretly pretending to do Jailer's bidding to get close to him and take him out. He'll probably fail though.

The cut off was dramatic tension: "Make your choice, Sylvanaas Windrunner" with the intent being that at that moment we're not sure what choice she made, to be good and release him, or evil and brainwash him. Rising tension as we sense that...


Only for bam, reveal, Sylvanas brainwashed him.

As far as I'm concerned, this was the moment. Will we redeem Sylvanaas or not? The question has been answered: No, now she's going to be a raid boss.

[Soon-TM]

>commits genocide on an entire race leaving them almost wiped out
>aw feeling a bit sad because her master is an asshole and she has to coerce Anduin

People actually falling for this shit writing ITT lmfao

It's so funny, first Sylv gleefully orders an extra large serving of night elf BBQ while being perfectly aware that all those souls will feed her sugar daddy. But soon afterwards, she is hesitant to turn Anduin, with puppy eyes included, because she suddenly realises that the Blue Man might actually not be such a swell fellow as she thought he would be.

And it will only get better in future patches

[scubi666stacy]

You know, her redemption might come hand in hand with her death. As in: She dies for a greater good (for whatever reason).

[Stormdash]

Sylvanas dying as a blackhatted mustache twirling villain would be the Warcraft equivalent of "The Bells". We're in GOT Season 8 era of the WoW lore.

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The cut off was dramatic tension: "Make your choice, Sylvanaas Windrunner" with the intent being that at that moment we're not sure what choice she made, to be good and release him, or evil and brainwash him. Rising tension as we sense that...


Only for bam, reveal, Sylvanas brainwashed him.

As far as I'm concerned, this was the moment. Will we redeem Sylvanaas or not? The question has been answered: No, now she's going to be a raid boss.

The most predictable, disappointing, but at least somewhat dignified way to salvage the hot mess of how they have written the character since basically halfway through Legion would be "she does a thing that frees Anduin of the Jailer's influence and the Jailer smokes her for it". It's still shit, it's just the least shit version of the shit.

[ZazuuPriest]

Yeah, uhm...

She's got lots of shit left going for her. She's probably going to get Arthas PTSD with Anduin (If not, worse), and she's likely going to go through a lot more in SL. Thrall still has to deal with Draka, and the memories of Garrosh which are still haunting him to this day (Meaning, his arc isn't done yet), etc.

Jania is Sylvanas 2.0 incoming.

[bloodkin]

I'm asking myself why there is a single person that actually wants her to have a redemption in the first place. It's a character that has committed multiple atrocities all to feed a power that made (empty) promises to her, all so that she gets to avoid a bleak and shitty afterlife that she probably deserved anyway.

Also, blizzard's writing has lowered it's standards so low that it's actually debatable if such a shitty character can even have a redemption arc. I'm not advocating for a more black and white view of good and evil as that wouldn't make a compelling narrative. I'm thinking in the lines of what should be morally acceptable for ANY character within the warcraft universe. each and every leader in warcraft has done questionable deeds with some more than others but Sylvanas has crossed a line which I don't think a character should be able to come back from. Being 'redeemed' would truly water down what she has done and mostly invalidate most of the motivations of others: If she can be redeemed after all that, well then there is no reason for anyone to hold back, I'll just get a redemption later.

This is what also made me really hate characters like illidan, as he just merely went his way screwing over everyone and still expecting them to listen to him after all his screw ups and shitty behavior. It's nonsensical drama for drama's sake, and way too much media is already centered on low brow stupidity of the that order, and although blizz's writing has already become somewhat of a laughingstock, I really hope they can just kill off this character and stop with the over the top useless drama.

However, as much as I hate to say it, I do expect blizz to continue the shitshow and keep her as a 'dark' mary sue and redeem her in some form, as it is clear that she's a favorite to writers, just as much as anduin is, which is also a problematic character to say the least.