Making a case for Ranged Tanking in WoW

[huth]

And you've failed, so far, to show any kind of mechanics that would work for a melee tank AND a "ranged" tank.


Same as above. You've failed to even come close to saying it's being possible.

Of course it is possible... by requiring one. But then we'd need more than one spec for it. It would also collide with smaller group sizes. I fail to see why Blizzard would go through that headache at this point in the games life, that's the kind of thing you do before initial release or when you've got a situation like the original FFXIV.

[Teriz]

I've just explained how it wouldn't work. Say the boss has an ability that deals damage, and applies a debuff that increases damage dealt by that ability by 100%. The debuff, you said, is applied on the tank, not the pet. Okay. So now let's say the "ranged" tank has the debuff, and the pet takes that damage again. Here's the thing that will happen: the debuff will do nothing, because the "ranged" tank will be taking the damage through whatever passive ability that he has that transfer the damage from the pet to the "ranged" tank, not from the boss' ability, meaning the debuff wouldn't be increasing the damage.

So what?

And you've failed, so far, to show any kind of mechanics that would work for a melee tank AND a "ranged" tank.

See post #358.

[Ielenia]

So what?

I literally explained it. If you, as the "ranged" tank, takes a debuff that increases damage taken from a boss ability, that debuff won't do anything, because all damage the "ranged" tank takes from the pet won't come from the boss' ability, but from the class ability that doing the damage transferrence.

Meaning tanks could completely ignore tank debuff mechanics.

See post #358.

My own post, in which I pointed out you just dodged by saying "Blizzard will do it"?

[arkanon]

So what?
.

So what? Your ok with one tank being able to completely ignore core mechanics on a boss fight, because "so what?" This is an entirely new level of delusion.

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See post #358.

That post is someone else explaining why this won't work.

At this point, I would like you to explain how it will function in pvp.

[Teriz]

I literally explained it. If you, as the "ranged" tank, takes a debuff that increases damage taken from a boss ability, that debuff won't do anything, because all damage the "ranged" tank takes from the pet won't come from the boss' ability, but from the class ability that doing the damage transferrence.

Meaning tanks could completely ignore tank debuff mechanics.

Again, all debuffs and damage would be transferred to the PC from the pet.

My own post, in which I pointed out you just dodged by saying "Blizzard will do it"?

Whoops. I meant #357.

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So what? Your ok with one tank being able to completely ignore core mechanics on a boss fight, because "so what?" This is an entirely new level of delusion.

Like I said, all debuffs and damage would be transferred from the pet to the tank.

That post is someone else explaining why this won't work.

Yep, I meant post #357.

At this point, I would like you to explain how it will function in pvp.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I have no interest in discussing how this would function in PvP.

[arkanon]

Sorry, I have no interest in discussing how this would function in PvP.

You have shown very clearly in these last few replies that A) this absolutely does NOT work, and B) you have next to no understand of how boss mechanics work, at least in relation to tanking.

But I think your complete refusal to discuss pvp is because you know that there is no doubt this is where your idea completely falls apart.

[Ielenia]

Again, all debuffs and damage would be transferred to the PC from the pet.

And again: the damage the "ranged" tank would be taking would come from a single source: the class ability that transfers damage from pet to player. Meaning those debuffs that increase damage taken from the boss would do absolutely nothing. The "ranged" tank could take dozens of stacks of the debuff, get even up to 10.000% extra damage... and not take a single ounce of extra damage. Because the boss wouldn't be damaging the player. It'd be done by the player itself.

And I even explained that's how it works for the demo warlock and paladin using Blessing of Sacrifice.

Whoops. I meant #357.

You mean the post I responded to and explained why things don't work?

[Teriz]

And again: the damage the "ranged" tank would be taking would come from a single source: the class ability that transfers damage from pet to player. Meaning those debuffs that increase damage taken from the boss would do absolutely nothing. The "ranged" tank could take dozens of stacks of the debuff, get even up to 10.000% extra damage... and not take a single ounce of extra damage. Because the boss wouldn't be damaging the player. It'd be done by the player itself.

And I even explained that's how it works for the demo warlock and paladin using Blessing of Sacrifice.

Except that mechanic wouldn’t work like Blessing of Sacrifice or whatever Demo lock ability you’re talking about.

You mean the post I responded to and explained why things don't work?

Your post stated that the ranged tank fighting in melee range defeats its purpose. In fact, that ability demonstrates how a ranged tank could operate in a tanking system designed around melee tanking.

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You have shown very clearly in these last few replies that A) this absolutely does NOT work, and B) you have next to no understand of how boss mechanics work, at least in relation to tanking.

But I think your complete refusal to discuss pvp is because you know that there is no doubt this is where your idea completely falls apart.

It’s more that since you’re purposely ignoring the points I’ve made about PvE, why would I waste time discussing PvP with you?

[datguy81]

At this point, I would like you to explain how it will function in pvp.

I too would like to know how this could properly be implemented in the game considering we do have PVP. It would make it totally busted to where it would be impossible for arrange time to work in pvp. So like I said before it’s DOA

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Except that mechanic wouldn’t work like Blessing of Sacrifice or whatever Demo lock ability you’re talking about.



Your post stated that the ranged tank fighting in melee range defeats its purpose. In fact, that ability demonstrates how a ranged tank could operate in a tanking system designed around melee tanking.

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It’s more that since you’re purposely ignoring the points I’ve made about PvE, why would I waste time discussing PvP with you?

I mean you kind of just rebuttal back with blizzard could implement it if they want to or so what. You have honestly failed to put forth anything to support how it would work and not be busted without them having to go back and change all the Bossfights. But feel free to enlighten us on how this would work in PVP

[Teriz]

I mean you kind of just rebuttal back with blizzard implement if they want or so what. You have honestly failed to put forth anything to support how it would work and not be busted without them having to go back and change all the Bossfights. But feel free to enlighten us on how this would work in PVP

And this is yet another example of purposely ignoring the points I've made multiple times in this thread.

[datguy81]

Also considering how bad the pet AI is. A lot of faith is being put in to pet.

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And this is yet another example of purposely ignoring the points I've made multiple times in this thread.

No I’m not ignoring nothing you tend to just say so what when people bring up the mechanics or blizzard just just implement it the thread is readable. But please explain how this would work in a player versus player setting and not be totally busted. We both know you’re not gonna do that because that 100% destroys your argument. The only person in this thread that has consistently ignored points would be you

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Like for PVP with this range tank have a dead zone like hunters use to ? I mean hunters used to be a range class with no melee abilities. Everything had to be at a minimum range

[Teriz]

No I’m not ignoring nothing you tend to just say so what when people bring up the mechanics or blizzard just just implement it the thread is readable.

You mean like post #357? And that wasn't the only one.

Feel free to read But please explain how this would work in a player versus player settling and not be totally busted. We both know you’re not gonna do that because that 100% destroys your argument

Again, there's no point in discussing PvP since you're purposely ignoring my points in PvE.

[datguy81]

You mean like post #357? And that wasn't the only one.



Again, there's no point in discussing PvP if you're purposely ignoring my points in PvE.

It’s a very valid question PVP is a thing in this game how would a range tank work in PVP. The reason you keep saying people are ignoring your PVe points is because you know this class would not work in PVP. If It can’t function in PVP that it could not be implemented in the game

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Post 376 made a good point about the debuff on the pet. Also would this ranged tank have the min range like hunters use to have ? How would this work in pvp ?

[bloodkin]

And this is yet another example of purposely ignoring the points I've made multiple times in this thread.

you mean, exactly how you yourself also completely ignore points people make that completely invalidate every argument you can come up with, and just cherry pick which argument you answer? how dare someone do that! I'm just wondering why you would go right back at it after being banned for a week, seems you didn't learn a thing.

Also hilarious how we're back to pet tanking after qq'ing about this not being about pet tanking but 'true ranged' tanking, how long will the flip flop continue?

[Teriz]

It’s a very valid question PVP is a thing in this game how would a range tank work in PVP. The reason you keep saying people are ignoring your PVe points is because you know this class would not work in PVP. If It can’t function in PVP that it could not be implemented in the game

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Post 376 made a good point about the debuff on the pet. Also would this ranged tank have the min range like hunters use to have ? How would this work in pvp ?

Except it didn't, since it's based on transference of health or damage from objects that have HP and can die. The "pet" in of itself can't be killed. Any damage/debuff/whatever is transferred to the PC.

[datguy81]

Well it seems to me that the ranged tank idea he has would not work in any way shape or form in a PVP environment so he wants to ignore that. Let’s be real this entire thread was made to be a tinker thread. He did not go back and edit and change everything until the mod stepped in

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Except it didn't, since it's based on transference of health or damage from objects that have HP and can die. The "pet" in of itself can't be killed. Any damage/debuff/whatever is transferred to the PC.

And how that function in PVP? Seems quite broken

[bloodkin]

It’s a very valid question PVP is a thing in this game how would a range tank work in PVP. The reason you keep saying people are ignoring your PVe points is because you know this class would not work in PVP. If It can’t function in PVP that it could not be implemented in the game

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Post 376 made a good point about the debuff on the pet. Also would this ranged tank have the min range like hunters use to have ? How would this work in pvp ?

lol, the moment you open this concept up to pvp, this entire concept becomes an utter shitfest, imagine having to send in a pet to enemy players that transfers all damage and debuffs, you'd be handing melee classes a free kill and ranged even more range, why is this still a thing?

[Teriz]

you mean, exactly how you yourself also completely ignore points people make that completely invalidate every argument you can come up with, and just cherry pick which argument you answer? how dare someone do that! I'm just wondering why you would go right back at it after being banned for a week, seems you didn't learn a thing.

Example?

Also hilarious how we're back to pet tanking after qq'ing about this not being about pet tanking but 'true ranged' tanking, how long will the flip flop continue?

I'm calling it a "pet" in order to simplify the discussion. The object sitting in melee while the PC is ranged tanking wouldn't be a pet like what you see in the Hunter, Warlock, or DK classes.

[datguy81]

lol, the moment you open this concept up to pvp, this entire concept becomes an utter shitfest, imagine having to send in a pet to enemy players that transfers all damage and debuffs, you'd be handing melee classes a free kill and ranged even more range, why is this still a thing?

100%. Also tanks take way more damage in PVP it would never work in 1 million years in a PVP environment making this entire class concept dead on arrival

[bloodkin]

Example?



I'm calling it a "pet" in order to simplify the discussion. The object sitting in melee while the PC is ranged tanking would be a pet like what you see in the Hunter, Warlock, or DK classes.

Example? how about 90% of all of your posts here, or all of your replies to my posts in this thread. Go read the entire thread over again and take a good look at your behaviour, I know I'm not the nicest person here, but I'm very much aware of it.