Making a case for Ranged Tanking in WoW

[bloodkin]

Nah, they wouldn't have to touch the pet system. The mechanics at play to make this work would only be applicable for that particular class, not the existing pet classes.

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Again, same mechanics, different thematic. It could be a barrier or a dragon or a spirit, it's all the same basic concept. Also I'm not sure where you got the idea that the barrier would be a 40 yard hit box....

Could you at least be specific on HOW this would work?

do you have any idea what these mechanics exactly would be, how they would work and what the end result would be?

because after thousands of class concept posts, I still get the impression that you don't know anything about actually making a functional class within the existing framework of WoW. there's not an inkling of any functional systems/abilities/resources in this thread with interactions in mind and how it would fit in the meta, the pve or pvp system. You literally can't even answer how it would work in pvp, which is a core gameplay system in wow. All you do is throw out all these tinker related half baked ideas with no thought on how it would actually function with the premise of 'hur dur the dev's will figure this out lol'. I don't pretend to know, but you surely do.

you can @ me Teriz, when you have a at least a skeleton setup for a function class, no themes, no tinker/bard/hunter whatever flavour, come with abilites, resources, interactions etc. that work off eachother and can actually do something within the exisiting framwork of wow. Yes, do you homework.

[Teriz]

Could you at least be specific on HOW this would work?

do you have any idea what these mechanics exactly would be, how they would work and what the end result would be?

because after thousands of class concept posts, I still get the impression that you don't know anything about actually making a functional class within the existing framework of WoW. there's not an inkling of any functional systems/abilities/resources in this thread with interactions in mind and how it would fit in the meta, the pve or pvp system. You literally can't even answer how it would work in pvp, which is a core gameplay system in wow. All you do is throw out all these tinker related half baked ideas with no thought on how it would actually function with the premise of 'hur dur the dev's will figure this out lol'. I don't pretend to know, but you surely do.

Read the OP.

[datguy81]

Read the OP.

Read it. Still does not say how it would work in pvp

[bloodkin]

Read the OP.

a class from an entirely different game that would never work and just another concept, how is that anything close to a functional framework for a class?

[Teriz]

a class from an entirely different game that would never work and just another concept, how is that anything close to a functional framework for a class?

It's the framework for mechanics of a specialization, not a class.

[datguy81]

It's the framework for mechanics of a specialization, not a class.

and you keep evading on how it will work in pvp. No framework is layed out. They are not going to add a class that can only do pve. the concept wont work I know
"Blizzard could just change the entire game", including every existing boss from the last 15 years, both raids and dungeons and all challenges...literally every scripted combat encounter in the game. Also we have PVP

[Ielenia]

Except that mechanic wouldn’t work like Blessing of Sacrifice or whatever Demo lock ability you’re talking about.

And how would it work, then? Because, as far as I know, that is how all "damage redirect" abilities work in the game now, active or passive.

Your post stated that the ranged tank fighting in melee range defeats its purpose. In fact, that ability demonstrates how a ranged tank could operate in a tanking system designed around melee tanking.

By being a MELEE tank. Which, I'll repeat again: completely defeats the whole "ranged" thing.

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And this is yet another example of purposely ignoring the points I've made multiple times in this thread.

Except there is no "ignoring", here. All your points were addressed and debunked.

[datguy81]

And how would it work, then? Because, as far as I know, that is how all "damage redirect" abilities work in the game now, active or passive.

Your post stated that the ranged tank fighting in melee range defeats its purpose. In fact, that ability demonstrates how a ranged tank could operate in a tanking system designed around melee tanking.

By being a MELEE tank. Which, I'll repeat again: completely defeats the whole "ranged" thing.[/QUOTE]

Also that would make them free kills in pvp.

Incase people forgot how broken tanks were in pvp when blizzard tried something new look at glad stance


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Except there is no "ignoring", here. All your points were addressed and debunked.

Fact he has resorted to evading and ignoring post since pvp is the Achilles heel of this ranged tank.

[arkanon]

By being a MELEE tank. Which, I'll repeat again: completely defeats the whole "ranged" thing.

Also that would make them free kills in pvp.

Incase people forgot how broken tanks were in pvp when blizzard tried something new look at glad stance


[/QUOTE]

God I loved glad stance. I mean the apm was pretty punishing with the spec I played, but I am genuinely stunned that they didn't expand on the concept, rather than completely abandon it. I do understand WHY they abandoned it, but I wish they hadn't.

I would love to have seen some attention given to a sword and board "crusader" pally, alongside the glad warrior. I'm sure they looked into it at some stage and it just didn't work.......kinda like "range tanking".

[Thestrawman]

So... Has anyone asked why this "ranged" tank would be brought over a normal melee one? Seems to me being ranged just makes it more of a hassle without any benefit.

[Teriz]

And how would it work, then? Because, as far as I know, that is how all "damage redirect" abilities work in the game now, active or passive.

And like I said, it would be a new mechanic not currently in the game.

By being a MELEE tank. Which, I'll repeat again: completely defeats the whole "ranged" thing.

Nah, a ranged tank in melee range.

Except there is no "ignoring", here. All your points were addressed and debunked.

Saying that a ranged spec fighting in melee range is no longer a ranged is not debunking anything.

[Ielenia]

And like I said, it would be a new mechanic not currently in the game.

And none of that still does not address the fact that a ranged class is taking melee damage on a constant basis. Which, I'll repeat again: defeats the purpose of being ranged.

Nah, a ranged tank in melee range, dealing witch

Hence: a "ranged" tank having to be in melee range to be effective defeats the whole purpose of being "ranged".

Saying that a ranged spec fighting in melee range is no longer a ranged is not debunking anything.

Except it's not just "saying" it. There's justification. There's examples. And that's not the sole argument. But I'll repeat: if a supposedly "ranged" spec has to be in melee and/or take melee damage to be effective, it completely nullifies the whole concept of "ranged". A ranged class is supposed to stay out of melee range of their targets, and not be the target of melee abilities. If your ranged class has to be in melee range, for whatever reason, and takes melee damage through feedback, then being "ranged' is a moot point.

[arkanon]

So... Has anyone asked why this "ranged" tank would be brought over a normal melee one? Seems to me being ranged just makes it more of a hassle without any benefit.

No benefits, but a shitload of disadvantages, complications, and negatives. And there is a very obvious reason OP flat out refuses to discuss pvp. Anyone who has played a few bgs will know this flat out doesn't work.
@Teriz basically wants the entire combat system reworked, every single encounter from the last 15 years, including every single raid, every dungeon, world boss, challenge mode type systems and scripted event remade, all to allow him to play a hunter with a pet that can tank a raid boss.

[Ielenia]

So... Has anyone asked why this "ranged" tank would be brought over a normal melee one? Seems to me being ranged just makes it more of a hassle without any benefit.

We have. We got no answer. His ranged tank idea either makes the class completely OP and mandatory over the current classes, or excessively overcomplicated for basically zero gain.

[Teriz]

So... Has anyone asked why this "ranged" tank would be brought over a normal melee one? Seems to me being ranged just makes it more of a hassle without any benefit.

Where's the hassle exactly?

The benefit would be a new option for players who wish to tank.

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And none of that still does not address the fact that a ranged class is taking melee damage on a constant basis. Which, I'll repeat again: defeats the purpose of being ranged.

Again, what does it matter if its taking melee damage if it's still fighting its target at range?

Hence: a "ranged" tank having to be in melee range to be effective defeats the whole purpose of being "ranged".

Which is an exaggeration. The instances where I said the tank would need to be merged are for encounters that aren't designed with this tank in mind.

Except it's not just "saying" it. There's justification. There's examples. And that's not the sole argument. But I'll repeat: if a supposedly "ranged" spec has to be in melee and/or take melee damage to be effective, it completely nullifies the whole concept of "ranged". A ranged class is supposed to stay out of melee range of their targets, and not be the target of melee abilities. If your ranged class has to be in melee range, for whatever reason, and takes melee damage through feedback, then being "ranged' is a moot point.

See above.

[Thestrawman]

Where's the hassle exactly?

The benefit would be a new option for players who wish to tank.

Well the fact both your concepts have to jump back into melee to reposition the boss. And as you told me previously they have to be at range to do enough damage to maintain threat. So not only do they have to waste gcds doing what any other tank can do freely, they also have to run around like crazy. It's extra tedious work for zero benefit beyond being a "ranged" tank.

[Teriz]

Well the fact both your concepts have to jump back into melee to reposition the boss. And as you told me previously they have to be at range to do enough damage to maintain threat. So not only do they have to waste gcds doing what any other tank can do freely, they also have to run around like crazy. It's extra tedious work for zero benefit beyond being a "ranged" tank.

They only have to jump back into melee range if they're unable to move their "pet" effectively. The merge mechanic is only in place for overly complex movement phases. A player highly skilled in moving their "pet" could effectively stay at range for a longer duration. Consider "merge" to be more like training wheels.

And once again, there are players out there who enjoy complexity and a challenge.

[Thestrawman]

They only have to jump back into melee range if they're unable to move their "pet" effectively. The merge mechanic is only in place for overly complex movement phases. A player highly skilled in moving their "pet" could effectively stay at range for a longer duration. Consider "merge" to be more like training wheels.

And once again, there are players out there who enjoy complexity and a challenge.

Only if there is reward in the complexity and challenge. And what you're suggesting is just "complexity" for complexity's sake. Another question, if you're tanking a boss, while being at range behind the boss, how do you know where to move the turret when you can't see your turret?

[Teriz]

Only if there is reward in the complexity and challenge. And what you're suggesting is just "complexity" for complexity's sake.

No, there’s complexity for the sake of allowing a tank to fight in range without unbalancing the structure of tanking in WoW.

Another question, if you're tanking a boss, while being at range behind the boss, how do you know where to move the turret when you can't see your turret?

Who said anything about turrets?

[Thestrawman]

No, there’s complexity for the sake of allowing a tank to fight in range without unbalancing the structure of tanking in WoW.



Who said anything about turrets?

And is there an upside to fighting at "range"? Besides the headache having another body at range brings.

You didn't seem to care what it's called before so why not a turret. So are you going to answer the question or just try to deflect again?