Why does SL feel like end of expansion time?

[Zorachus]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

Active thread warnings:

This thread is awful close to a "WoW is Dead/Dying" thread, but I've opted to live it open for constructive state of the game discussion. But the weapons-grade takes and infighting need to settle down. Be civil with one another going forward.

[ArunTheRogue]

It's absolute opposite on my side.

[MrLachyG]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

is this your first expansion? numbers always drop around this time; raids have been cleared, people unsub and wait for the new patch. also worth noting is that unlike the last two expansions people don't need to constantly farm AP this time round; which means even if raids hadn't been cleared people don't need to log on unless they are raiding or doing M+

[Mojo03]

It's always slower 4 months into a new content update. Always.

This one is especially unique in that the next patch isn't even on the PTR yet and we only know key details, nothing else.

People are out of things to do and it's still up in the air when more is coming. At least 3 months.

People have moved on to other things. There's a ton of other things to do in gaming these days.

[Zorachus]

BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?

[Advent]

BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?

Patches were fast in Legion. 7.1 came out 2 months after the expansion launched, and iirc 8.1 was 3 months after BfA launched, so no. This isn't normal. They're a bit behind.

[Gnomesized]

Yes, this is as bad as I've ever seen it this early in an expansion and I'm looking at doing stuff like levelling fishing or farming a few toys from old expansions, stuff that I don't normally do until that dead period in the last few months of an expansion.

This is the direct result of them actively removing things I used to enjoy doing and also making what's left (anything outside of socially organised raiding/mythic+/rated pvp) have zero upgrades potential sooner than ever before.

[Argorwal]

Patches were fast in Legion. 7.1 came out 2 months after the expansion launched, and iirc 8.1 was 3 months after BfA launched, so no. This isn't normal. They're a bit behind.

And many people complained 4 months for the opening raid tier was too short.

Now we have a 10 boss raid that is MUCH harder than EN and harder than Uldir.

9.1 now would be terrible.

[McNeil]

Its simply the climate that WoW has been in for quite a while. People come when something new hits and then a week or 2 later most of them leave, only to wait for the next big thing. There are much more and better options around for people to sink their time in instead, and WoW is not exactly the kind of game that attracts a new audience either. The expanion itself is more or less the same compared to the last 2 with very little innovation and lacking a hook to keep people playing. It does some things better and some things worse, but in its core its the exact same game that its been for a while.

[MrLachyG]

BFA and Legion 4 months in I recall still being very packed and tons of players on. But Shadowlands feels different now.

Plus wasn't 7.1 and 8.1 patches both released already by this time in both those expansions?

Legion's first patch dropped 2 months after release, due to EN being obliterated within 48 hours by world first guilds and yeah did not take long for most regular guilds to destroy that raid. BfA's first patch dropped 4 months after release. it's almost been 4 months since Shadowlands has been released but I would argue that Castle Nathria is significantly more difficult than the opening raids of the last few expansions so guilds need more time to clear it.

edit: looking back over the history of expansions and patches most .1 patches dropped around the 4 month mark, except 5.1 which basically contained fuck all anyway. there is one which took 6 months from launch to .1 patch and it's the most celebrated expansion of them all

[probert]

Lots of the WoW streamers / content providers have talked about this. Bellular, Asmongold, Preach... they've all called out this expansion as being pretty soulless.

Nothing for casuals to do, shit raid tier, wonky loot system. The gating is *incredibly* transparent, Blizzard spreading too little content over too long a period of time. The Story, somehow, is MORE shit than BFA.

its the first time we've seen two bad expansion in a row, its very clear Blizzard has lost its mojo.

WoW subs dropped 40% in a single quarter, just imagine how bad the subs would be if there wasn't ~500,000 people still playing the last days of Classic. There will be a bump when TBC comes out, Blizzard will declare success, but it will be on the back of recycling their glory days.

[Qnubi]

No loot, no sub.

[PixelFox]

There's a ton of other things to do in gaming these days.

This.

So so many things.

There was a time years ago when I thought I would just die if WoW went away and my "home world" ceased to exist, but nowadays Blizzard have managed to completely turn me into a "WoW, meh." kind of player. You just have to look at a game like GW2 whose devs manage to continue to produce about 10x as much content for their game as Blizzard does for WoW, and with a tiny fraction of the income. WoW made Blizzard fat and lazy and they have just gotten fatter and lazier over the years and now literally phone it in every 12 months because they know people will come back desperately hoping that some of the old magic will come back. But no, it's the same systems all over again and people burn through it in a few weeks.

[Bigbazz]

There hasn't been a lot of momentum, it feels a lot like WOD in that regard. I mean the content WOD had was good, it just wasn't enough and there wasn't enough momentum. Shadowlands is pretty good, but there has been little development or momentum, Blackrock Foundry released 3 months after the expansion launch and in Shadowlands we have the same situation but without any raid release in sight, we know barely anything about it even.

But na Shadowlands feels early stages to me, and it's a good expansion at its core. If they actually develop it we have some good times ahead, if they do a WOD and abandon ship it could end up the worst expansion in history. BFA sucked but had a lot of momentum.

[Azerate]

Feels like late stage of every wow patch ever.

And this thread feels like every "wow is dead" thread ever. What a coincidence

[Wangming]

There hasn't been a lot of momentum, it feels a lot like WOD in that regard. .

You are probably more right than you think. Looking at how long raid tiers and expansions last, we may yet again see an expansion with only two major content patches.

[arr0gance]

We haven't even hit the second page and this thread is already a wasteland of weapons grade shitty takes.

Just fucking quit the game, people. Stop posting on forums like a weird ex that can't get over the fact that Chad WoW has decided to go a direction you don't agree with. Fucking hell.

[dope_danny]

The covenant stories ended. If you aren't hard into the progression endgame thats a hard breaks on the story to leave and come back later for more in a weird way we haven't before because the previous chases were things like the necklace or weapon that made it feel like you were still chasing after something but when you hit the credits so to speak on the covenant and the vault is kind of your only focus that can feel like a post expansion lull and thats when the most drift occurs.

Kind of feels like if WoD didn't have a garrison really.

[Dracullus]

Lots of the WoW streamers / content providers have talked about this. Bellular, Asmongold, Preach... they've all called out this expansion as being pretty soulless.

Nothing for casuals to do, shit raid tier, wonky loot system. The gating is *incredibly* transparent, Blizzard spreading too little content over too long a period of time. The Story, somehow, is MORE shit than BFA.

its the first time we've seen two bad expansion in a row, its very clear Blizzard has lost its mojo.

WoW subs dropped 40% in a single quarter, just imagine how bad the subs would be if there wasn't ~500,000 people still playing the last days of Classic. There will be a bump when TBC comes out, Blizzard will declare success, but it will be on the back of recycling their glory days.

Content is same as before, you just don't have endless grind and gimmicks on loot.

If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.

SL turned artifact power into currency for cosmetics, made it possible to get best gear (even with less regular drops, it's easy to forget that it was impossible from 7.0 to 8.2), turned 'artifact' (Renown) into 2 fast quests, changed legendaries from crazy and unfair system into fast and predictable work. On paper sounds amazing. But you had more fun in Legion, don't ya?

[mr2t]

We haven't even hit the second page and this thread is already a wasteland of weapons grade shitty takes.

Just fucking quit the game, people. Stop posting on forums like a weird ex that can't get over the fact that Chad WoW has decided to go a direction you don't agree with. Fucking hell.

Someone is real defensive about a video game.