Why does SL feel like end of expansion time?

[oldgeezer]

Nothing for casuals to do.

Depends on what the casuals like to do I guess. There's an assload of Covenant transmog to collect, which is keeping me busy. Putting an alt through each Covenant is also taking me a while.

[Kanegasi]

This is because you're not on a populated server, and you're probably feeling burnout.

[arr0gance]

Someone is real defensive about a video game.

Defensive? Maybe it's because it's pretty fucking irritating to see the same five or six posters in every thread dunking on SL and jerking themselves off about how much better {x expansion *cough* Legion} was like anybody in the entire fucking universe should give a shit.

[Electric Lighter]

I think it has to do with all the systems to be honest. It constantly feels like you are just trying to fill up a bar.

[Argorwal]

The covenant stories ended. If you aren't hard into the progression endgame thats a hard breaks on the story to leave and come back later for more in a weird way we haven't before because the previous chases were things like the necklace or weapon that made it feel like you were still chasing after something but when you hit the credits so to speak on the covenant and the vault is kind of your only focus that can feel like a post expansion lull and thats when the most drift occurs.

Kind of feels like if WoD didn't have a garrison really.

Or any other expansions that didn’t have an infinite power grind and titanforging (Legion/BFA).

Both of which were fairly hated and their removal was cheered at Blizzcon.

[rhorle]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

It is just the pandemic delay causing issues. We likely would have had the next patch launch a few weeks after Renown 40. With the delay to launch it really screwed everything up and obviously work from home has some impact event though Blizzard has down played it a little. We are two weeks away from when you can upgrade all Sanctum upgrades as well.

It is strange they didn't launch the PTR yet even in earlier stages which just makes that feeling grow.

[Jamais]

Content is same as before, you just don't have endless grind and gimmicks on loot.

If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.

SL turned artifact power into currency for cosmetics, made it possible to get best gear (even with less regular drops, it's easy to forget that it was impossible from 7.0 to 8.2), turned 'artifact' (Renown) into 2 fast quests, changed legendaries from crazy and unfair system into fast and predictable work. On paper sounds amazing. But you had more fun in Legion, don't ya?

Quoted for truth.

[Cronovey]

Content is same as before, you just don't have endless grind and gimmicks on loot.

If you are casual, I have quick tip for you - when next expansion will be full of grinds (that give regular people something to do, but will be hell for min-maxers) and crazy stuff like titanforging or Legion legendaries - DON"T listen to Bellurar, Asmongold, Preach. They played huge part in pointing Blizzard towards current direction. It's disgusting if they call SL "soulless" now.

SL turned artifact power into currency for cosmetics, made it possible to get best gear (even with less regular drops, it's easy to forget that it was impossible from 7.0 to 8.2), turned 'artifact' (Renown) into 2 fast quests, changed legendaries from crazy and unfair system into fast and predictable work. On paper sounds amazing. But you had more fun in Legion, don't ya?

Basically this. Everyone complained about WF/TF and corruption, so they removed it. Now people can get BiS and they're done, nothing to do until new content. That removes some players from the pool.

People complained about AP grinding for the past two expansions and how it felt mandatory, so they removed it. Without an endless grind available, people get BiS and stop because there's nothing to do until new content.

People complained about RNG on the Legiondaries, so they made they craftable and severely reduced the amount of time required to farm out your patterns for the most part, so people got their legendaries and got them upgraded early on. Now they've got no reason to do Torghast until new content.

Blizzard gave in to player demands on a ton of things like the gear system, AP grinding, legendaries, and plenty more and now suddenly players are realizing that without that endless treadmill of RNG to run on, the game has limited life span because there's no possible chance at upgrades any more. Now those players are going boo hoo no content nothing to do when I log in with the raid cleared and are blaming Blizzard instead of realizing that all these Youtubers and their feedback have created a game that will become stale very quickly because unless Blizzard starts pumping out patches at an insane speed, they're going to hit a wall every single patch and have nothing left to do.

[Jamais]

Now those players are going boo hoo no content nothing to do when I log in with the raid cleared and are blaming Blizzard instead of realizing that all these Youtubers and their feedback have created a game that will become stale very quickly because unless Blizzard starts pumping out patches at an insane speed, they're going to hit a wall every single patch and have nothing left to do.

I still don't understand, why would you have to or want to play WoW all the time? This game is my passion, and other RL things make it even impossible to keep up with multiple games, but for true gamers, seriously, why?

Blizzard does not want you to play only WoW, there are threads on their official forums where CMs are discussing their favorite other games with the players ffs.

And yes, even though Blizzard gets slack all the time for ''carrot on the stick'', it is evident more then ever that players in this game would sacrifice fun, immersion, even sanity for loot and power, and that nothing else comes even close in importance.

[TENTACLELUVR]

Failure to innovate in an old genre. A large part of gaming is novelty. Countless companies have tried to imitate and streamline the genre, leading players to see commonalities between MMORPGs, removing the novelty. WoW's model is, in essence, a Skinner box which has been mostly solved by players. They are learning that pressing the button will never be as satisfying as it used to be, and are moving on to more rewarding activities. This is only natural until a different novel concept akin to MMORPGs takes root.

[luciano]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

Because a lot of people weren't having fun, so they walked away.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it has to do with all the systems to be honest. It constantly feels like you are just trying to fill up a bar.

And pointlessly doing so with a character who is weaker at 60 than he was at 120. You never get stronger because the world trash just gets stronger along with you. It's the dumbest system I've ever seen in a game like this.

I play wow to be uber-powerful and collect stuff like mounts and tier sets and right now, outside of farming the reeeeeally old raids, I am neither powerful nor am I able to farm half the old raids I want to farm. Even some that I could farm an expansion ago are now too hard for my character. They nerfed the shit out of us and they're like, HMM, WHY ARE PEOPLE LEAVING?

[Xalvia]

Main reason I quit was out of frustration over the covenant system and its inflexibility. Also kind of bored, fully geared and nothing to do really. Strangely enough I went back to classic.

[Advent]

Basically this. Everyone complained about WF/TF and corruption, so they removed it. Now people can get BiS and they're done, nothing to do until new content. That removes some players from the pool.

People complained about AP grinding for the past two expansions and how it felt mandatory, so they removed it. Without an endless grind available, people get BiS and stop because there's nothing to do until new content.

People complained about RNG on the Legiondaries, so they made they craftable and severely reduced the amount of time required to farm out your patterns for the most part, so people got their legendaries and got them upgraded early on. Now they've got no reason to do Torghast until new content.

Blizzard gave in to player demands on a ton of things like the gear system, AP grinding, legendaries, and plenty more and now suddenly players are realizing that without that endless treadmill of RNG to run on, the game has limited life span because there's no possible chance at upgrades any more. Now those players are going boo hoo no content nothing to do when I log in with the raid cleared and are blaming Blizzard instead of realizing that all these Youtubers and their feedback have created a game that will become stale very quickly because unless Blizzard starts pumping out patches at an insane speed, they're going to hit a wall every single patch and have nothing left to do.

I actually agree with both of you, and have been saying that for years, but no one really paid attention. The non competitive players were always the ones chugging along, doing what Blizzard designed for them, but as with all player-created problems (And they ARE), streamers and youtubers swayed popular opinion until we started advocating for things that weren't in our best interest. I recall long ago when Blizzard created limited attempts for raid bosses, guilds started doing alt/split runs to get a competitive edge. When that got to be too much for them, Blizzard combined 10/25 lockout and got rid of limited attempts in Cataclysm, but guilds kept doing split runs. I even remember top guilds (And those further down) asking Blizzard to "save them" from those split runs that they created for themselves even though it wasn't needed anymore. It's what they do. They'll look for any competitive advantage to the point of breaking the game, and when it gets to be too much, they encroach on content not even designed for them to get some pressure off their backs. It's maddening.

[Bee76]

is this your first expansion? numbers always drop around this time; raids have been cleared, people unsub and wait for the new patch. also worth noting is that unlike the last two expansions people don't need to constantly farm AP this time round; which means even if raids hadn't been cleared people don't need to log on unless they are raiding or doing M+

Thats the problem. I experience the same as the OP. Everything seems empty, even more empty then in the time between 8.3 and 9.0.
Maybe 15-20% of my guild is still active, even in the time beween bfa and sl there were way more guild-mates online on primetime.

So yes, SL feels empty and bored. And a lot of guild havent cleared mythic yet. But well, my own guild is struggling to find 20 ppl fpr the raid. A lot of guilds are searching members right now.
You are right, this is something every xpac experienced, but from my point of view, never in such doimensions.


The problem is, there is no fun content to do, anima grind for dumb cosmetics seems not to work to0 keep the people subbed, and there is no system for char progression to keep people loggin in.
Daily quest are a chore, even worse without flying. Torghast and Maw pointless. M+ is ok if you are into pushing or with alts, but to gear out an alt is hard. Raids are overtuned, so puggin them with alts is a chore aswell.
But, again only my opinion, a mmo needs a healthy population. Reasons fpr players to log in. Blizzards answer is "chores, timegating and delays" everywhere. From my point of view, blizz must stop catering those "oh im just raif logging" ppl.

[NordWitcher]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

Back when I first picked up WoW, was back in 2009. I had a shitty computer and games back then were definitely not as far advanced as they are today. It was the only game that would perform pretty well on a potato of a computer I had. Also it was fun, fresh and never felt like a "grind".

I came back to WoW after Shadowlands was announced after being away from the game for 6-7 years. I got to experience the last few months of BFA and the levelling was great. However, everything else felt like a game of its own. The tacked on power system, mythics, etc. I hung around till the launch of Shadowlands hoping for something different. The levelling experience was great. Enjoyed it. It took a really long time to go from 50-60 and I enjoyed that. However, it felt terrible running through the 2nd and 3rd time. It just lacks the story, zone ambience and everything else that a lot of the old zones have where you never got burnt out running through them a dozen times. Its almost like Blizzard hand holding you from one quest to another. I recently went back to level up through WTLK and it felt fresh. You had so many different zone storylines, mob variety, unique NPCs with their own story and agenda. Now it's one big dragged out zone story arc. But the real problems are at level 60. It felt terrible. There is really nothing to do in the game if you don't raid. Sure some will mention PVP, Mythic+, Pokemon, etc but they all feel like their own games within a game rather than something that is connected. You then have torghast, the Maw, World quests, a bunch of checklists as content to keep people on that wheel. IT's NOT FUN.

So that brings me back to games. There are just so many better games out there, worthy of my time where WoW would have once occupied. Plus having to pay the $15 or whatever a month feels stupid. Luckily I don't. I've paid off Shadowlands and my monthly sub with gold and even that got frustrating. I enjoyed playing the AH but the constant no lifers, cancel scanning and reposting burned me out because you cannot compete with them unless you do the same. It's even worse during peak hours cause you will never sell anything unless you cancel and repost as that's what everyone else is doing. Blizzard ruined professions by having no barrier to entry. Now anyone and everyone can level a profession which completely ruins the economy. The Legendary market is even worse since you have a few uber rich goblins controlling it making it harder to entry rather than something controlled by the game itself. Throw in constant cancel scanning and it ain't worth it.

So yeah I think all that contributed to the current ghost town like feel you mentioned. A lot of people that I've come across mention the same factors, unrewarding gear, the game not valuing your time, lack of content, gated content, too grindy, etc. Shadowlands is one of the least alt friendly expansions which is surprising considering they mentioned they wanted to make it alt friendly. These new power systems that launch with evey expansions is terrible and nothing but an excuse for an artificial grind.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Shadowlands is brand new still, early on in the expansion. But for some reason 4 months into the expansion it feels more like the time between expansions, that purgatory time where the expansion is 18 months old, no more patches and still months away from a new expansion.

I log in, see way less Guildies on. The cities emptier. Trade chat not a non stop spam fest. It feels more like a ghost town and just less players on.

I typically only feel or see this after an expansion has been out awhile and people waiting for the next one. But we're still early on in Shadowlands.

I play on two full populated servers and it just feels empty lately. Even log time WoW friends I see not logging on as much. My Guilds usually has dozens of players on all the time, now it's just a few people on.

I can't even recall in all my years playing WoW, to see a new expansion so empty so early.

I still have things to do

I am still going into the Maw for conduit upgrades and sockets, I'm not sure how useful Soul Ash will be after 9.1, but I still do Snoreghast anyway.

I do the callings for the gold, even the gold per hour is less than fishing, and I have been paying for my sub with gold

Recently I have started doing M+, not because it's necessarily fun, but because it's basically a welfare epic system too easy to resist, it can be fun sometimes, but meh

So you're wrong OP, there is still stuff to do

[arr0gance]

This is only natural until a different novel concept akin to MMORPGs takes root.

Been waiting almost two decades for that WoW killer. Got any insider information for us?

[Zorachus]

Because a lot of people weren't having fun, so they walked away.

- - - Updated - - -



And pointlessly doing so with a character who is weaker at 60 than he was at 120. You never get stronger because the world trash just gets stronger along with you. It's the dumbest system I've ever seen in a game like this.

I play wow to be uber-powerful and collect stuff like mounts and tier sets and right now, outside of farming the reeeeeally old raids, I am neither powerful nor am I able to farm half the old raids I want to farm. Even some that I could farm an expansion ago are now too hard for my character. They nerfed the shit out of us and they're like, HMM, WHY ARE PEOPLE LEAVING?

Totally agree, I don't think Blizzard should have have done resets on gear and levels. Really don't understand why they did?

Right now, we should be level 130, and like i1400 geared or so. Old Raids should never have been scaled down or changed whatsoever. And the worst thing, I think they started in Legion, was making the current enemies scale with your gear. Like in Legion, if you were i800, the World Quest enemies were i800, but if you get better gear and really got powerful, like i900+, well the zone enemies also scaled up with you and would become i900 too. That's stupid. Defeats the purpose of getting better gear and feeling more powerful.

I wish there was never a gear squish, and never a level squish. My dream would be the next expansion, we go back to where we should be, and max at for the 9th expansion would be level 140, and have like i1600 gear.

[Darkeon]

Feels like late stage of every wow patch ever.

And this thread feels like every "wow is dead" thread ever. What a coincidence

Feels like you got personally attacked by this thread.

[pfbe]

Honestly, I cannot wait until they give the option to tell Darion "I've already done this intro experience more than enough times so, instead of taking me to Icecrown, just take me directly to Oribos". I honestly cannot bring myself to go through that shitty intro experience again anytime soon. The slow walking of the helmet pieces at the frozen throne, waiting for Jaina to walk 3 feet so she can tell me about the Jailer some more, /gag. The deliberate time wasting is just too transparent this expansion, and to me that's at least part of the reason why it feels like it has run out of impetus.