The Machismo discussion from the Biden/Haris thread so he can stop derailing it.

[Fugus]

This is a continuation of
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53086720

I am doing this so that massive derailment may continue here.

@Machismo
@Breccia
@Elegiac
@cubby
@Endus @PhaelixWW

Lets continue that discussion here rather than liter the page with crap.

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Here's the problem, $15 an hour is fucking arbitrary... it was simply a political slogan. It was a number grabbed from the ether, and people ran with it.

Thanks for admitting I never said it would double the cost. I'm glad we got that bullshit narrative out of the way.

I do have a better option, localize it. Choose unions over forced increases. Use consumer advocacy to push it without the need of government.

I'm not the one who wants to screw over others, that's you guys.

The number wasn't arbitrary. It was what minimum wage would have been at the time if it had kept pace with inflation and productivity increases since around 1968 or the golden age of capitalism.

Ok, choose unions, great, how do you intend to keep those unions protected because without legal protections, they have no teeth. Unless you are pushing for violence to get around the companies screwing around to subvert them or shut them down.
[Infraction]

[Shadowferal]

No good can come from arguing over the dubious logic of libertarian ideology.

[Machismo]

This is a continuation of
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53086720

I am doing this so that massive derailment may continue here.

@Machismo
@Breccia
@Elegiac
@cubby
@Endus

Lets continue that discussion here rather than liter the page with crap.

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The number wasn't arbitrary. It was what minimum wage would have been at the time if it had kept pace with inflation and productivity increases since around 1968 or the golden age of capitalism.

Ok, choose unions, great, how do you intend to keep those unions protected because without legal protections, they have no teeth. Unless you are pushing for violence to get around the companies screwing around to subvert them or shut them down.

Bullshit, it was never close to $15 an hour.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019...ear/index.html

Here's a thought, outlaw assault.

[Fugus]

Bullshit, it was never close to $15 an hour.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019...ear/index.html

Here's a thought, outlaw assault.

Nice deflection there, that is adjusted solely for inflation, I said inflation and productivity.

And by that graph it would still be $11.55 adjusting solely for inflation compared to 1968 which is a MASSIVE jump from where we are now. And that was based on 2019 not 2021.

[Machismo]

Nice deflection there, that is adjusted solely for inflation, I said inflation and productivity.

So, productivity by the individual?

That would be up to the employer.

Does that mean that the minimum wage is going to be based on the per capita GDP of each state?

[Fugus]

So, productivity by the individual?

That would be up to the employer.

Does that mean that the minimum wage is going to be based on the per capita GDP of each state?

The national minimum wage is the NATIONAL minimum wage, if other places should be higher, the states should go higher. As far as it being too high, not really when you take into account inflation and productivity increases.

And you want talk about getting rid of the gains of productivity increases, that ends up with all the benefits going to the top with all the labor cut to make it just SOL.

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@Shadowferal

Moving all things Machismo here please

[Machismo]

The national minimum wage is the NATIONAL minimum wage, if other places should be higher, the states should go higher. As far as it being too high, not really when you take into account inflation and productivity increases.

And you want talk about getting rid of the gains of productivity increases, that ends up with all the benefits going to the top with all the labor cut to make it just SOL.

So, why should it be exactly $15 an hour, let's see the math.

Personally, I see no reason why I should get paid more, because a natural gas employee in Wyoming is producing more.

[Fugus]

So, why should it be exactly $15 an hour, let's see the math.

Personally, I see no reason why I should get paid more, because a natural gas employee in Wyoming is producing more.

Actually, we should have it HIGHER by now, we needed it closer to $15 about a decade ago.
https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimu...-productivity/

If you are so unproductive that you aren't as productive as people were 50 years ago, you would be more beneficial to the nation if you were on welfare and opened up that job to someone who wasn't so lazy.

[Machismo]

Actually, we should have it HIGHER by now, we needed it closer to $15 about a decade ago.
https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimu...-productivity/

If you are so unproductive that you aren't as productive as people were 50 years ago, you would be more beneficial to the nation if you were on welfare and opened up that job to someone who wasn't so lazy.

Once again, why should I be paid more for flipping the same burger that I've been flipping for 40 years, just because a guy in Wyoming manages to drastically increase productivity in his natural gas job?

That's the problem with a blanket increase based on productivity.

[Fugus]

I'm still more than willing to talk about Biden and the rest of the Democrats not acting in lockstep on this thing.

I haven't derailed it once, because this has always been about them acting at the behest of their constituents, as well as their own political careers.

We aren't talking Biden or Harris at this point, we are discussing libertarian ideology which is derailing it.

AFK.

[Machismo]

https://www.epi.org/publication/why-...-minimum-wage/

That doesn't show why it should be exactly $15.

Next.

[Fugus]

Once again, why should I be paid more for flipping the same burger that I've been flipping for 40 years, just because a guy in Wyoming manages to drastically increase productivity in his natural gas job?

That's the problem with a blanket increase based on productivity.

Well considering that burger flipper got paid more than you do now for flipping than same burger......

[Machismo]

We aren't talking Biden or Harris at this point, we are discussing libertarian ideology which is derailing it.

AFK.

No, you are discussing that, I have no problem linking this to Biden, and have made efforts to do so. Just because you want to derail, is not my fault, nor is it my problem.

[Santti]

We aren't talking Biden or Harris at this point, we are discussing libertarian ideology which is derailing it.

AFK.

And the other threads where this has happened.

"I'm not getting defensive, do you wanna fight?!"

[Machismo]

Well considering that burger flipper got paid more than you do now for flipping than same burger......

Nope, wrong.

The minimum wage has ever been CLOSE to $15 an hour, which is the point.

[Shadowferal]

I haven't derailed it once, because this has always been about them acting at the behest of their constituents, as well as their own political careers.

Have you convinced anyone that a $15min wage was the grsnd evil?
Bear in mind if this were the 60s when working a min wage then could get a person out of poverty snd into a reasonably priced apt on a good neighborhood, or even the 70s when working a summer job could pay off the tuition of most colleges...maybe you'd have an argument.

[Machismo]

Have you convinced anyone that a $15min wage was the grsnd evil?
Bear in mind if this were the 60s when working a min wage then could get a person out of poverty snd into a reasonably priced apt on a good neighborhood, or even the 70s when working a summer job could pay off the tuition of most colleges...maybe you'd have an argument.

I'm trying to get people on board for a $100 minimum wage... why do people hate American workers so damn much?

I have provided the comparative rate based on inflation, and it was never close to $15 an hour.

[Shadowferal]

I'm trying to get people on board for a $100 minimum wage... why do people hate American workers so damn much?

You really do need a timeout.
[Infraction]

[Machismo]

You’re right. If anything it’s saying $15 is too low.

And $15 is far higher than at any point since a minimum wage was created, based on inflation.

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You really do need a timeout.

Not at all, this is showing how the argument is a bust.

If they claim that $15 is better, then why not more? if the claim is that increasing the minimum wage is actually a huge benefit, then why stop?

[Shadowferal]

Not at all, this is showing how the argument is a bust. if they claim that $15 is better, then why not more?

I'm sure when Biden signs on 15 you'll jump for joy.