TBC HC dungeons hard or nah?

[Super Kami Dende]

There will be maybe 3 mechanics that will need to be learnt properly - Murmur, Some rooms in Shalls, Steamvault.
A couple of Pulls that need to be learnt in Slabs, Botanica and Mechanar.

So basically the first couple of weeks with greens/blues there will be wipes. Once People learn, easy badges.

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And something I would like to add to "Gamers have gotten a lot better": has anyone actually played WoW Classic? Because believe me, gamers have NOT gotten better.

You sure? There are far more People standing around in full raid epics in City Hubs in Classic with a similar population to how it was in Vanilla.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Hard is subjective. But once you flip them to heroic it boils down to mobs being a little spongy when it goes to HP, they can and will blow up DPS really fast, and threat exsists. It certainly won't be as difficult it was in the past. Game will be min/maxed to fuck, people will go into it knowing exactly what to do, and in general most the gamers probably will be better than they were. End of the day it will boil down to who is in your party. Two or three people that do the small things like interupts, stuns, and good proformance it will be a joke. No one doing it, well, probably a bit rougher.

[ClassicPeon]

I don’t think they’ll present nearly the same challenge. A lot of the “difficulty” was just knowing which hard hitting abilities to CC. For people who’ve played any of the last retail expansions, it’s a watered down Mythic.

I think the challenging part will be getting people to remember simple shit like attunements, managing MCs, and following marks (depending on tank in the run).

I suspect a heavy meta shift to Pala/Druid tanks and melee cleaves. Feral Druid, 3x FWar, Resto Shaman for maximum lols and zero downtime cleavefest.

There is no point in having a meta for the dungeons as they are only part of pre raid gearing. Everyone needs to do them if they want pre raid bis.

[Facefive]

There will be maybe 3 mechanics that will need to be learnt properly - Murmur, Some rooms in Shalls, Steamvault.
A couple of Pulls that need to be learnt in Slabs, Botanica and Mechanar.

So basically the first couple of weeks with greens/blues there will be wipes. Once People learn, easy badges.

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You sure? There are far more People standing around in full raid epics in City Hubs in Classic with a similar population to how it was in Vanilla.

Pretty sure. Just think of the many times a hunter pulled Buru because he multishotted an egg. People are still wiping in BWL where literally the only mechanic is "move los". I mean yes, I get that you can't throw all players in the same bucket here, however after 15 years of gaming experience (more or less), people should be able to understand their classes and have a somewhat decent movement.

[ClassicPeon]

It won't be the same as Blizzard will use nerfed game version, just like they did with Classic.

Nerfed versions? They specificly mentioned wanting to keep the prenerf states of most raid bosses. What makes you think they are gonna nerf it?

[Prag]

There is no point in having a meta for the dungeons as they are only part of pre raid gearing. Everyone needs to do them if they want pre raid bis.

There wasn’t really a time constraint to the question and I’m assuming that the first phase will be meta-heavy for the rep/badge farms. Similar to the spell cleave meta in early Classic.

[ClassicPeon]

There wasn’t really a time constraint to the question and I’m assuming that the first phase will be meta-heavy for the rep/badge farms. Similar to the spell cleave meta in early Classic.

I get what you are saying but its not gonna be more effecient for 4 ppl to help 1 person farm rep then it is for 5 ppl who all need rep to farm that rep, just because the first group is meta

[AeneasBK]

None of it will be tough.

[erifwodahs]

Can we please stop it with the idea that "gamers have gotten a lot better" and "you only learn your class appropriately when levelling yourself"?

And something I would like to add to "Gamers have gotten a lot better": has anyone actually played WoW Classic? Because believe me, gamers have NOT gotten better.

I think good players got even better due to experience, bad players stayed the same. Obviously it's in my personal experience. A lot of people who I play with now were playing with me back in TBC and we went from noobs who got all the shit wrong/backpadling clickers into CE raiders killing bosses pre-nerfs. Aaaaaand we have a guildie, who had to be step by step told what to in raids in WotLK and still somewhat has to be told what to do now.

Learning class by leveling is... how you get bad habits. There are no secret revelations about anything when you are leveling. I guess only new players could get some true value for time invested. Any seasoned player will get very little information which he did not know about the game. Give me a max lvl rogue - a class which I have not played at all or shaman, and in couple of hours of getting accustomed I will be as good as Joe who has not played that class before but leveled it for 60-100 hours.
Not even talking about boosting character to a midpoint, which brings you to a point where class is somewhat playable because you have a bit better toolkit but nothing more than that.

What I will say is that by leveling it for longer amount of time, you get a "connection" with your character, but that is only valid for players who are on the RP side, like myself, but I have friends who don't understand how can I love my paladin so much and their character is just a tool for them which is fair enough. Also you can build this connection through overcoming difficulties with that character anyway, investing time in "creating" that character essentially.

[T-34]

Can we please stop it with the idea that "gamers have gotten a lot better" and "you only learn your class appropriately when levelling yourself"?

And something I would like to add to "Gamers have gotten a lot better": has anyone actually played WoW Classic? Because believe me, gamers have NOT gotten better.

The wilfully bad have not gotten better, while those players that do their best to learn from their mistakes/experience have gotten absurdly better.

Yes, there are a lot of wilfully bad players in Classic, but there are also quite a few players that find it fun to be the best they can be.
The same thing will happen in TBC, so your "job" is to find people from the second group as fast as possible and ruthlessly filter out people from the first group.

[Greyvax]

I'm guessing they will be easy.

From my experience on classic, wipes ONLY ever happen when there are accidental aggros or face pulls of multiple trash packs of mobs.

Bosses of dungeons fall over so easily.

[ClassicPeon]

The wilfully bad have not gotten better, while those players that do their best to learn from their mistakes/experience have gotten absurdly better.

Yes, there are a lot of wilfully bad players in Classic, but there are also quite a few players that find it fun to be the best they can be.
The same thing will happen in TBC, so your "job" is to find people from the second group as fast as possible and ruthlessly filter out people from the first group.

Saying players have generally gotten better shouldnt be controversial at all. Looking at what was hard back then versus now its vastly different and objectively much harder now. For a reason. Even things like normal dungeons are much more complicated now then they where back then.

[h4rr0d]

Didn't blizzard confirm that they will give us pre-nerf tbc raids, I am guessing this will be with HC dungeons too, no?

I'm willing to wager the pre-nerf raids means without the big "let's let everyone who cares enough to turn up see the raids" nerf that happened just before WOTLK release, which nerfed everything by like 30% or sth ridiculous like that.

[ClassicPeon]

I'm willing to wager the pre-nerf raids means without the big "let's let everyone who cares enough to turn up see the raids" nerf that happened just before WOTLK release, which nerfed everything by like 30% or sth ridiculous like that.

That would be the wotlk prepatch. It has nothing to do with TBC.

They have mentioned specific bosses in pre nerf states.

Why are people speaking on this when they havent even seen the available information? oO

[Millyraynge]

I actually started playing in TBC and I tanked with my droot, managed to down tier 5 raids and that was it. I remember hc dungeons as challenging, but doable during my kara/hc dungeon gear set up. CC was far important but maybe I was a noob back then

My question is, people said in the past that wow vanilla raids were hard and it turned out they were piss easy, will this be the same with tbc hc dungeons?

I am asking because perhaps there will be new metas etc

the difference between vanilla and tbc in terms of raw numbers is quite high. most pre nerfed heroic dungeon trash melted t4 tanks and one-hitted pretty much any non-tank. If this is enough to consider something as hard? I dont think so. Unfortunately no server offers this old experience. On a 2.4.3 build dungeons got nerfed like a dozen times already.

[erifwodahs]

Even things like normal dungeons are much more complicated now then they where back then.

I still don't know how to navigate Maraudon

[ClassicPeon]

I still don't know how to navigate Maraudon

Yeah thats the difference between the adventure aspect we had back in the day and the more mechanics forcused playstyle we have today.

[Katchii]

They're not "hard" they just take coordination and communication because you can't just waltz into a room and faceroll everything. Target priority, crowd control and careful use of abilities to prevent breaking CC are essential. But that's not "hard" that's just NOT faceroll.

[Aphrel]

The prenerf herois had a bunch of wierd mobs wich had tank oneshot abilities for no reason. Like underbog boglords, fel guards in blood furnace, those 8 armed bitches in shadowlabs, the nockupmobs in shattered halls, neophytes in blood furnace.. and some other packs in arcatraz aswell etc.

They said they were going with earlier prenerf versions of raidbosses, but they said nothing of prenerf heroic dungs so i expect we are getting the nerfed 2.1 version of the dungs. In that case it wont be very hard, just alittle slower than current classic dungs.

[erifwodahs]

They're not "hard" they just take coordination and communication because you can't just waltz into a room and faceroll everything. Target priority, crowd control and careful use of abilities to prevent breaking CC are essential. But that's not "hard" that's just NOT faceroll.

M+ in essence.