Fantasy vs Science Fiction.

[Pandragon]

Zeppelins, mortor teams, tree cutting shredders, goblin explosives, flying machines, oil tankers, submarines, the only part of Warcraft that was ever "classic fantasy" was Warcraft 1.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think you're right for writing. I've often thought the reverse is true when it comes to making movies, specifically all the creatures and special effects. Of course those are in SF movies too, just moreso in fantasy movies.

You are right, scifi is alot more popular in movies. I didn't really think about that. I would also like to add to this, that the same seems to hold true for MMOs, as there are barely and good scifi MMOs out there and the few that are either have heavy fantasy elements or are exceedingly rare. For movies I have to agree that has at least in large parts to do with fantasy usually having way more monster varienty and doing magic often coming across as kinda goofy, even with today's CGI. That makes it instantly more difficult to engage the viewer imo. There might also be a historical component when it comes to hollywood, because even back in the 80's and 90's when alot of low budget trash made it out on VHS, there was still a heavy scifi bias, at least it always felt like that to me. Most of the fantasy stuff was either thinnly veiled exploitation or so bizzarly "nerdy" that I still cringe just thinking about it. I mean fantasy only had it's star wars moment when LotR made onto the screen, was there even anything widely popular like Star Trek for fantasy? The only things I could think about would either be Conan movies from way back then or cartoons.

[Absintheminded]

Everything that's not real is fiction or fantasy. Sciene fiction is a sub-genre of fantasy.

You're talking about sciene fiction vs. middle age fiction or high fantasy fiction.

What? No, science fiction and fantasy are two sub-genres of fiction.

[callipygoustp]

I completely agree with the OP: we should get rid of gnomes.

On topic:
In WoW, I prefer fantasy. In general, I couldn't say which I like more.

[Absintheminded]

Rather, both are subgenres of Speculative Fiction. Overall, the differences between science fiction and fantasy are far to small for this question to even make sense - you're all but two sentences away from switching from one to the other at any time. IMO, the differentiation should just be abolished since it serves little purpose. Instead of genres, they should be seen as settings for SpecFi. Some focus more on science, some more on fantastical elements, some mix them up. None are defined strongly enough that you couldn't hint at them actually being the other. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and sufficiently analysed magic is indistinguishable from science.


Either way, WoW has never been "classic" Fantasy in the first place, so the OP is presenting a false choice anyway.
WoW's elements tend to be far more fantastical than sciencey, as well. Nearly anything of significance runs on some variant of magic.

Just because there is overlap in certain works doesn't mean the two need to be merged. There's plenty of room within each for something to not have elements of the other.

[Nynax]

The thing about WoW "technology" is that all of the advanced stuff is really just magic wearing a "tech" mask. Everything Titan related is powered by arcane magic, not electricity and physics. It only looks sci-fi because they create stuff that funnels pure arcane energy in a way that reminds us of electricity...but last I checked, electrons can't make mana buns.

Same with the Exodar, Legion, space stuff. All powered by magic; by Fel or Light. Dimensional portals created by rituals that cause a rift in space/time. It's all "magic."

The only "pure" technology in WoW is pretty steampunk. It's the airships, the tanks, the crude rockets, the goblins blowing themselves up. Topped off with whatever the "rule of cool" allows. Without the magic, WoW isn't anything close to what modern tech can do.

[Capultro]

Science Fiction of course,what clever people choose,fantasy is for unicorns-people...

[Selastan]

I find the Sci-Fi elements the best. I've always loved the whole 'ancient technology' trope, and thanks to the Titans WoW has always had that. But the real kicker was in BC. ORCS IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE. That's what really set it apart for me. I was a paladin, a crusader riding into battle with a sword and plate armor, but I was IN SPACE fighting demon robots. Orcs are aliens, the elves took an interdimensional ship from sentient windchimes that are the 'gods' of most of the world's religions, a being made of pure sound summoned from the end of the cosmos destroyed the tomb city of the space goat Hebrews, and my weapon was made of living lava that I looted from a guy riding into battle on a neon-colored dragon.

That was my first introduction to WoW and it stuck. The sci-fi clash with Tokienesque standard fantasy tropes is, for lack of a better word, BALLER.

[huth]

Just because there is overlap in certain works doesn't mean the two need to be merged. There's plenty of room within each for something to not have elements of the other.

If that was the case, i'd agree with you. But it isn't. The two "genres" are so close to each other that it's trivially easy to switch a work from one to the other. Any work.

[Hammergiver]

If that was the case, i'd agree with you. But it isn't. The two "genres" are so close to each other that it's trivially easy to switch a work from one to the other. Any work.

Ok, Star Trek and Lord of the Rings. Go.

[Absintheminded]

If that was the case, i'd agree with you. But it isn't. The two "genres" are so close to each other that it's trivially easy to switch a work from one to the other. Any work.

Well, there it is. Huth is the arbiter of all things fiction related.

[endorus]

it's always been a mix of both. I prefer wow to be more based around the old sword and board + magic which is where I see Shadowlands primarily with WotLk, Cata, MoP (compared to BC/WoD/Legion) although I have enjoyed aspects of each expansion. But yeah, there has always been both present in various degrees through the game history with each expansion featuring one or the other more heavily.

[Teng]

Science Fiction of course,what clever people choose,fantasy is for unicorns-people...

What about genetically engineering unicorns? what about the sequel where they time travel back to get some elasmotherium DNA and it turns out they do have magical powers?. At which point is it necromancy, and at which point is jurassic park?

What about Golems? The literal inspiration for the sorcerer's apprentice, are they fantasy? Why aren't they robots?

What if someone developed Kung Fu powers as a result of being struck by lightning and being bitten by a cobra?

And i doubt "clever people" choose to read one specific sub genre of anything. I mean the Etymology of magic, mage, magician all come from the the ancient persian term magi, which is more commonly translated as "wiseman", and wise being somewhat synonymous with clever. Does that mean that every Grimoire is sci-fi? or does it mean reading sci-fi makes me a mage?

I'll put this forward; People who think fantasy and science fiction are distinctly different have not read enough Terry Pratchett.

[Teng]

Science Fiction of course,what clever people choose,fantasy is for unicorns-people...

What about genetically engineering unicorns? what about the sequel where they time travel back to get some elasmotherium DNA and it turns out they do have magical powers?. At which point is it necromancy, and at which point is jurassic park?

What about Golems? The literal inspiration for the sorcerer's apprentice, are they fantasy? Why aren't they robots?

What if someone developed Kung Fu powers as a result of being struck by lightning and being bitten by a cobra?

And i doubt "clever people" choose to read one specific sub genre of anything. I mean the Etymology of magic, mage, magician all come from the the ancient persian term magi, which is more commonly translated as "wiseman", and wise being somewhat synonymous with clever. Does that mean that every grimoire is sci-fi? or does it mean reading sci-fi makes me a mage?

I'll put this forward; People who think fantasy and science fiction are distinctly different have not read enough Terry Pratchett.

[huth]

Well, there it is. Huth is the arbiter of all things fiction related.

Do you have any actual arguments or are you just here to make light of others?

[Dracullus]

For years Warcraft, like Star Wars, is mix of both.

[Absintheminded]

Do you have any actual arguments or are you just here to make light of others?

Your "argument" is that you can change something of one genre to make it another genre. No fucking shit, if you changed replicants into dragons then Blade Runner would be fantasy. That doesn't make Blade Runner fantasy bc it's so easy for imaginary changes.

[Soon-TM]

It seems like WoW is turning more and more into a science fiction game instead of a fantasy/adventure game. Personally I don't like this very much. A game like WoW should in my opinion be based much more on "classic" fantasy/adventure elements than space ships and robots. But I'm interested in hearing what the good people of MMO champion think?

Also, I know we have had a lot of Dragons throughout the years, but believe it or not, you can actually make fantasy elements which don't revolve around Dragons :P

Fantasy, at least when it comes to WoW. Sci-fi is best left for games specifically designed with it in mind, like Beyond Earth or Blizzard's own SC or SC2.

[huth]

Your "argument" is that you change something of one genre to make it another genre. No fucking shit, if you changed replicants into dragons then Blade Runner would be fantasy. That doesn't make Blade Runner fantasy bc it's so easy for imaginary changes.

Congratulations for illustrating the point. No points for failing to realise it, though.

Yes, you could change between the two by merely switching out superficial details, without actually changing the story itself. That's precisely why they aren't really different genres to begin with. Try changing a murder mystery into a romance, that's a lot more effort and actual story changes.

[Echeyakee]

Yeah, wow has always been a fantasy with heavy sci-fi influence and themes. Strange that it took OP so long to realize.