Solution for M+ leavers....

[Jervaise]

I have a great solution for leavers. It consists of two parts;

I) When someone leaves the group before the timer expires, the remaining party earns valor per bosses downed already.
II) The keystone system is gone; instead you can do any dungeon according to your highest completed at any time. If you two chest a dungeon, you can skip two levels. Let's say your highest HoA is 19, then you can attempt 20 anytime. If you two chest 20, then you can attempt 22. If you time it single chest, you can attempt 21. This way you can push without having to worry about someone leaving, dc'ing etc.

[deenman]

The game needs ignore account instead of the ignore character. How am i suposed to blacklist dumb asses who waste time when they can be annoying with their alts

huh?i was pretty sure thats how it already worked

[GnomeEU]

Reviews for players is a horrible and toxic idea.
It would make the game even harder for new players.

On my hunter for example I die alot to unavoidable dmg. Already used self heal, heal pot. Turtle. Healer can't keep me up I just lie in the dirt. I would get bad reviews for those runs even tho I did everything I could.

Guess what, I'd have lots of bad reviews while I'm undergeared and or the group struggles and blames me.
I'd have lots of great reviews once I can carry the group.

No thanks

[RobertoCarlos]

How you came to that conclusion/summation is beyond me. The tank was just the story device, I was only talking about the artificial pressures of m+ using said device.
Although, you kinda ironically just proved the first part of my response about the kind of people on these forums. Heh

And you're labelling people on a forum so get over yourself

[chiddie]

I thought storming was the most annoying thing ever, but spiteful with tanks thinking they're playing on a tournament is ridiculous, especially on a healer.

They have a hard time understanding that more often than not, the ghosts keep you in combat, and with pug dpsers getting hit often, the healer is basically oom for 2 or 3 packs.

This week is probably the week where I failed the most keys

Spiteful is an issue this week because it’s paired with “surprise!” another crappy dot like grievous.

Since apparently there’s no way for dps to dps without taking damage and/or use personals to remove stacks, we are basically healing all the time and risk of going oom is high.

If I could buy discounted runs not to time them but only to be able to play with not braindead people I would do it every day.

[ellieg]

Spiteful is an issue this week because it’s paired with “surprise!” another crappy dot like grievous.

Since apparently there’s no way for dps to dps without taking damage and/or use personals to remove stacks, we are basically healing all the time and risk of going oom is high.

If I could buy discounted runs not to time them but only to be able to play with not braindead people I would do it every day.

I see you complaining about dps everyday. I know there are bad dps out there, but maybe you should try playing as one through some higher keys. 99% of the time I get grievous, its from unavoidable damage. In any 5+ mob pull, I expect to be hovering around 50% hp with 3+ stacks of grieve. Through no fault of my own. Perhaps if you played one a couple times you'd understand why some take more damage and others don't seem to do that much dmg.

[chiddie]

This is one of the best ideas ive ever heard

Really cool idea, yes.

Like “let’s give a 1 to Diablo 3 because I can’t login and I hate RMAH”.

Please, users reviews on other users are ALWAYS a bad idea.

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I see you complaining about dps everyday. I know there are bad dps out there, but maybe you should try playing as one through some higher keys. 99% of the time I get grievous, its from unavoidable damage. In any 5+ mob pull, I expect to be hovering around 50% hp with 3+ stacks of grieve. Through no fault of my own. Perhaps if you played one a couple times you'd understand why some take more damage and others don't seem to do that much dmg.

I already stated many times that despite common line of thinking, for me being a good DPS is the most difficult thing to achieve. Maybe on par with being a good tank, surely more difficult than being a good healer.

I know that many times you just can’t avoid damage, but if at the same pack one group drives me oom and another group makes me even dps, I cannot avoid making questions to myself: am I really so bad like I think I am or there is a way for ppl to approach packs and bosses in a safer but at the same time not so raw dps punishing way?

I get mad at dps because after failing tons of pugs runs I saw how huge is the difference between having a good dps and a crappy dps. There are a lot of around 1000 rio dps I have no idea on how they reached that level.

I just love healing so gg anyways, but I would like to time a little more than 1-2 keys over 10 or so.

[ellieg]

Really cool idea, yes.

Like “let’s give a 1 to Diablo 3 because I can’t login and I hate RMAH”.

Please, users reviews on other users are ALWAYS a bad idea.

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I already stated many times that despite common line of thinking, for me being a good DPS is the most difficult thing to achieve. Maybe on par with being a good tank, surely more difficult than being a good healer.

I know that many times you just can’t avoid damage, but if at the same pack one group drives me oom and another group makes me even dps, I cannot avoid making questions to myself: am I really so bad like I think I am or there is a way for ppl to approach packs and bosses in a safer but at the same time not so raw dps punishing way?

I get mad at dps because after failing tons of pugs runs I saw how huge is the difference between having a good dps and a crappy dps. There are a lot of around 1000 rio dps I have no idea on how they reached that level.

I just love healing so gg anyways, but I would like to time a little more than 1-2 keys over 10 or so.

Some packs have caster mobs that cast trash spells at random party members that you don't interrupt cause you save it for the scary spell. But if you're playong with a prot pally who's sling out shields that silence everyone that pack will be stupid easy. Next group has a dif comp and now those spells are going off. Same thing as if you're running a tank and 2 melee with low cd interrupts, compared to a bunch of casters with high cd interrupts so they are used less.

Or those jumpy dudes in ToP. Maybe you are stacking in first group and they are getting aoe stunned and burned down. Next group ppl are a little spread and no aoe stun is available.

Id look first for composition stuff like that. Also when building your own key be a little more selective and get out of that +7-13 hell as fast as you can and move onto 14+ to get better ppl applying

[ONCHEhap]

Oh wow. I thought people were this odd only in leveling dungeons. Like tanks getting upset hunters are misdirecting, not understanding what the spell does. I guess these people eventually get to max level.

Tanks don't get upset because of misdirect,they get upset because hunters tend to misdirect before running ahead and pulling 10 packs on their own

[Bee76]

sadly what blizzard needs to do is punish leavers by not letting them in a key for the remainder of the day.

if a person dosent want to finish a key because it'll be 1 min out of time they shouldn't be doing m+ rio and similar metric HAVE to go

i completly disagree. Instead of leaving ppl would just go afk or fake dc.
and RIo is the only reason puggin is possible. If someone cant handle leavers in m+, this dude just need to find a guild or friends. problem solved.

[schwarzkopf]

Almost every leaver I've come across is a tank or healer, because they can easily just go and find another group.

Maybe a leaver shouldn't be able to enter another key for an hour after leaving of their own choice (including D/C or AFK > n minutes where n is to be determined).

That might place healers and tanks on the same footing as DPS - where you can't just keep diving in and out of M+ keys until you find one you like.

[crazyman2]

This is one of the best ideas ive ever heard

I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not, but absolutely F no.
The people who care enough to write a review are probably the people who shouldn't be allowed in the groups to begin with

So back in BFA I was running a low key in the first couple weeks of the expansion that got killed by a leaver that left an impression
The tank was pulling like an absolutely maniac and we basically didn't drop combat between bosses. We wiped once early - the healer went OOM, and called it out probably 3 times before actually running dead out and wiping us. Nothing was said in the group after the first wipe.

Then we wiped once again late under the same circumstances, and the tank absolutely goes off about the "shit healer doesn't know how to manage mana", and the dude just killed it even though we were in front of the last boss and easily on 3 chest pace despite two full wipes. At that gear level, we couldn't do the end boss with no heals.

So I'd known the tank, and he was a returning former mythic raider tank and healer. Maybe when he left in WoD with mythic gear he could heal a dungeon through and never go OOM. But two expansions worth of class changes later, he was 100% in the wrong, and if we'd have had reviews, I'm sure he'd have had a lot to say about the healer.

[Alroxas]

I think marking their names with a (*) or with red/any other color for days to one week would make it a good start.
An m+ leaver shouldn't be able to get into groups easily.

The problem is how do you assign that * or red/any other color to a "M+ leaver"? What constitutes leaving? If it's the first person out of the dungeon after the key started, how do you determine their reason for being out?

Scenario 1: Person who dropped out suffered an internet and/or power outage. Think Texas + snow storm or any other major weather disaster.

Scenario 2: Person who dropped out *first* did so because tank/healer/other dps went AFK but didn't leave the instance nor leave the group.

Scenario 3: Person left because after numerous attempts on the first boss where the DPS were pulling 0.5k DPS combined. And the boss actually enraged because it was being fought for so long. Clearly the group is ill-suited for the keystone they put in.

[chiddie]

Almost every leaver I've come across is a tank or healer, because they can easily just go and find another group.

Maybe a leaver shouldn't be able to enter another key for an hour after leaving of their own choice (including D/C or AFK > n minutes where n is to be determined).

That might place healers and tanks on the same footing as DPS - where you can't just keep diving in and out of M+ keys until you find one you like.

This is curious because as a healer almost every leaver I came across was a dps or, VERY rarely, a tank.

[DaFuzZ7]

One of my real life friends basically explained it to me while also doing it to me.

Essentially, people don't care about anything other than IO nowadays. He honestly didnt know why i wanted to continue doing the dungeon since we werent going to complete the key or push it, there was no reason to continue to him. People are that meta crazy nowadays.

I quit playing the game 3 days later.

[schwarzkopf]

This is curious because as a healer almost every leaver I came across was a dps or, VERY rarely, a tank.

It isn't in the best interests of a DPS to leave, only tanks and healers can leave at zero cost to themselves.

By leaver - I mean those who leave easily (e.g. one death or something), not people who leave when there is no point staying.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Yelp reviews for players? Majority of people can't even do actual Yelp reviews properly.


"McDonald's does not have vegan options. Would not recommend. 1/5 stars." Yes this is a real review.


There are also clearly fake reviews people post for "the lulz" and clear trolling like when Abraham Lincoln reviewed the Ford Theater:





Now imagine giving toxic-attitude-prone players the power to review other players. More than half of the posters in this forum alone would abuse such a system.

[Tziva]

One of my real life friends basically explained it to me while also doing it to me.

Essentially, people don't care about anything other than IO nowadays. He honestly didnt know why i wanted to continue doing the dungeon since we werent going to complete the key or push it, there was no reason to continue to him. People are that meta crazy nowadays.

I quit playing the game 3 days later.

I don't think this is really accurate. For one, your IO score isn't an end in itself. Its only value is to get into good groups. Caring only about score doesn't make any sense when score doesn't inherently have any worth without that context.

Second -- and this is the thing people constantly misunderstand -- an untimed key doesn't hurt your score. In fact, an untimed key can help your score if you don't already have a timed key at that level.

People leave keys for a lot of reasons, but I really think a big influence on that this expansion was the loot reduction for untimed keys. It's hard to convince people to stick around and spend the time to finish a key when there is almost no chance they are getting loot at the end. This has been somewhat addressed now, where untimed keys don't give you less loot anymore, they just make the second piece lower ilvl (but you can upgrade it). That makes the time investment a lot more worth it.

Push groups may still opt not to finish the run because their only goals requiring timing, but in my experience those are usually mutually agreed upon disbands rather than one random leaver.

It isn't in the best interests of a DPS to leave, only tanks and healers can leave at zero cost to themselves.

That might be true in a queuing system but in keystones where you premake groups, that really isn't true. Leaving a dungeon has the same penalty for everyone, regardless of role: loss of the time already invested in the dungeon. Both can jump out and into a new group right away if one falls apart so I don't feel like this holds true at all.

FWIW, all my leavers this expansion that I can recall have been DPS. However, that might just largely due to the sample: there's only one tank in each run for three DPS, and I'm the healer.

[schwarzkopf]

That might be true in a queuing system but in keystones where you premake groups, that really isn't true.

Maybe it is different on your server group - but in the manual group finder for M+ dungeons, it is full of 3 dps looking for tank and healer, with some 3 dps and tank looking for healer.

Would normally take me hours to find a single M+ run, but if I had a tank and healer then dps would flood in.

[chiddie]

I don't think this is really accurate. For one, your IO score isn't an end in itself. Its only value is to get into good groups. Caring only about score doesn't make any sense when score doesn't inherently have any worth without that context.

Second -- and this is the thing people constantly misunderstand -- an untimed key doesn't hurt your score. In fact, an untimed key can help your score if you don't already have a timed key at that level.

People leave keys for a lot of reasons, but I really think a big influence on that this expansion was the loot reduction for untimed keys. It's hard to convince people to stick around and spend the time to finish a key when there is almost no chance they are getting loot at the end. This has been somewhat addressed now, where untimed keys don't give you less loot anymore, they just make the second piece lower ilvl (but you can upgrade it). That makes the time investment a lot more worth it.

Push groups may still opt not to finish the run because their only goals requiring timing, but in my experience those are usually mutually agreed upon disbands rather than one random leaver.


That might be true in a queuing system but in keystones where you premake groups, that really isn't true. Leaving a dungeon has the same penalty for everyone, regardless of role: loss of the time already invested in the dungeon. Both can jump out and into a new group right away if one falls apart so I don't feel like this holds true at all.

FWIW, all my leavers this expansion that I can recall have been DPS. However, that might just largely due to the sample: there's only one tank in each run for three DPS, and I'm the healer.

Also, non timed runs count for the vault. Unless your are only pushing your rio or the run is going REALLY bad I don’t see reasons to leave.

Rewards in the end imho are worthy failing the timer even of 10 minutes anyways.

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doesn't take hours... i've been playing my druid as boomkin... it takes like 10 minutes from logging in until i am in a key as dps...

Orly? What a surprise. Try doing the same thing with a shadow priest for example and have a look of how much it does take to get an invitation.