Gearing alts feel so stupid now

[Argorwal]

It was still great. At least in my opinion.

You were not carried by your gear as much as you were in TBC and afterwards. That's one reason why AV was so successful back then. It was large-scale and not a stupid instagib fest.

My Naxx warrior in classic can kill a clothie or leather wearer before the charge stun wears off if they are in greens.

[Aleksej89]

Outside of Ashran, which gives a 100% health buff to all melee specs while on the Ashran road, it's impossible for even Tanks to hit 80k health outside of CDs.
But yea, starting honor gear's ilvl is far too low, and costs way too much honor to get up to par. At this point it's far easier and better to instead just buy the PvP trinkets you need and use PvE to gear up to the point that you don't just get insta-gibbed.

I started PVP in SL only this month and play only healers so honestly i never even noticed that this "Ashran road" buff exists.
Well sorry for the mistaken info then... kinda unusual for blizzard to put in such a specific buff, dont recall ever seeing that in any other BG before.

[erifwodahs]

I started PVP in SL only this month and play only healers so honestly i never even noticed that this "Ashran road" buff exists.
Well sorry for the mistaken info then... kinda unusual for blizzard to put in such a specific buff, dont recall ever seeing that in any other BG before.

It's not kinda unusual. Health Buffs has been there since WotLK
Nice for you to say "I see them everyday" and still deny that shit even when I mentioned Ashran.. Try to listen to people and consider what they are saying before writing down your already prepared counter argument.

[MrPaladinGuy]

If honor was account-wide I probably wouldn't have quit.

[Aleksej89]

It's not kinda unusual. Health Buffs has been there since WotLK
Nice for you to say "I see them everyday" and still deny that shit even when I mentioned Ashran.. Try to listen to people and consider what they are saying before writing down your already prepared counter argument.

You said ashran but did not actually explain whats so special about ashran (the road buff thing).
I do epic battlegrounds almost exclusively so yea i see over 80k hp players every day, never did notice that it was actually related to ashran and not other epic BGs.
There was nothing to listen in what you said cause you talked about speedboats and didnt actually say that there is a ashran-only buff that doubles melee class hp.

[erifwodahs]

You said ashran but did not actually explain whats so special about ashran (the road buff thing).
I do epic battlegrounds almost exclusively so yea i see over 80k hp players every day, never did notice that it was actually related to ashran and not other epic BGs.
There was nothing to listen in what you said cause you talked about speedboats and didnt actually say that there is a ashran-only buff that doubles melee class hp.

I am not here to teach you. I just said, that you are wrong. Investigative work is for you to do. But no, you went into deflection instead of looking up.

[Aleksej89]

I am not here to teach you. I just said, that you are wrong. Investigative work is for you to do. But no, you went into deflection instead of looking up.

You are right about that one at least, it did not cross my mind that there is such an obscene buff in a BG for a specific type of class/spec.
Either way gl hf

[Ragedaug]

if u did not grind your ass in tbc pvp - your ass was deleted by people with 300-400 res. You literally had to farm 100k honor to get geared in bgs and weeks upon weeks of arenas, so yeah, nah.

You are basically making my point for me, so I don't know if that's what you were intending or if you were trying to argue?

Anyway, when I say "I enjoy instanced PVP occasionally", I mean to say I enjoy the thought of doing some instanced PVP, but only occasionally. Not enough to get fully geared. So that means when I would get the 'bug' to go PVP, and queue up for some battlegrounds, I would immediately regret it as I felt completely ineffective.

[Necromantic]

In vanilla where a rogue with a grey weapon can perma stun you and kill you and you stand no chance, or fully geared chars that can 2 shot any player they want, you have no idea on where PvP should be and in vanilla it was not skill, it was just time investments.

PvP should have its own stats so no matter what team you fight your all fighting on the same playing field, gear should have no impact on PvP. In terms of gear no matter if your R1 or just getting into PvP no player should have a gear advantage, it just creates unbalanced gameplay in PvP.

If you were ever perma stunned to a rogue with a grey weapon in vanilla, you were not even playing... you were afk. But poorly tuned skills were not a fault of gear.

I do agree, PVP should be an even playing field.

My Naxx warrior in classic can kill a clothie or leather wearer before the charge stun wears off if they are in greens.

Keyword "can". Get a lucky crit and I can see it. But thats not exclusive to naxx geared players either. I was in greens on my Warlock and used to mop the floor with Naxx and WL geared players. Yes, Locks were a bit OP but even on my Priest, incompetent players in good gear couldn't save them.

If there is nothing to do for casuals, they play what ever else is there. AV was fun, but not because PVP in vanilla was that great. It was bearable to participate for the cheap epic mount and a wepon you might not had gotten anywhere else.

For most it was just the cheap mount the whole motivation, because getting slaughtered for 18 hours by AOE spamming range DPS was not the most enjoyable gaming mode and the reputation turn-in griefing was allready enough to break many casual players.

For some reason people forget how elitist vanilla was and how extreme loot rules were used. A casual players gearprogression was done with AV weapons and honor farming for some blue pvp gear.

AV was fun because the BG itself was fun with large-scale battles, no instagibs and minus a few AFKers, there was teamwork at least somewhere.

Elitism existed in vanilla but it did not reach its peak until M+ came out. Then it exploded with pseudo-elitists on top of it all.

[Velerios]

only retards didnt like pvp scaling, legion had the best system possible for competitive pvp

Streamer like Asmongold and Co hated PvP-Scaling... oh i see what you did there!

[kenn9530]

snip

You claimed vannila had PvP where it should be but that was not the case, classes were horribly balanced and when you had gear players stood no chance because they died in 1-2 hits, vannila it was either your class was OP as hell so gear didnt matter or when you had all the gear your class could 1-2 shot most players.

[damneddog]

You claimed vannila had PvP where it should be but that was not the case, classes were horribly balanced and when you had gear players stood no chance because they died in 1-2 hits, vannila it was either your class was OP as hell so gear didnt matter or when you had all the gear your class could 1-2 shot most players.

To have gear in Vanilla, it means that person has spent a lot of time gearing up, I believe he deserves to be overpowered to the under geared toons.

Also, for comparison sake, end game PVE vs end game PVP in Vanilla, the major difference was the HP pools that you get a lot more stamina from PVP gears, which means you could survive more hits, and your PVP gear is tuned in a way that you have lesser mana/Int/Str/Agi etc, with an added bonus of a good/average PVP skill on the gloves. And for PVE you needed that 8/8 set, you have higher primary stats, but lower stamina. I liked how this was done, it made the PVPers a lot tanky, but they don't do as much damage as a PVE geared toon, and at the same time, the PVE toon can dish out more damage, but they are squishy. Also in PVP gear has almost zero hit rating compared to PVE, and the hit rating is required for PVE. with these in place, they made us to farm the correct BIS gears for the game content that we want to play. the PVP geared toon will do pretty crap damage in PVE, and the PVE toon will not be able to burst down a PVP geared toon due to the significantly higher stamina available. And when referring to PVP, im referring to it as Battlegrounds, and not the 1v1 aspect of PVP, because as you highlighted, a naked rogue with grey weapons can stunlock a class forever with stealth resets and eventually kill a player, but it doesnt happen in BGS. We'd love to see that naked rogue in BG so he can die to a few smites, or mindflay, or a fireblast, or arcane shots, or an accidental death from whirlwind spin.

1v1, i could rank1 frostbolt a warrior till he dies and he will never get a chance to charge or intercept me, or a hunter could never attack you because you stood in his deadzone.

[Tyrannica]

There is an inherent flaw in the BG matchmaking system where 1 player = 1 player regardless of their gear quality.
Imho blizzard should not allow gear quality in PVP to make such a cataclysmic difference in HP and DPS.

But if they insist on that then they should separate BG matchmaking into "200ilvl and below" and "201ilvl and above".
If queue times would become a problem then a gear scaling system can boost poorly geared ppl to 200ilvl or reduce the ilvl of great gear down to 200ilvl.

Top quality gear should not be allowed to ruin unranked PVP where the majority of players are poorly geared.
Its basically the same situation with "twinks" that ruined low level pvp for over a decade until blizz finally separated them from regular BGs.

Furthermore, the RBG system should be redesigned - remove it from lfg and organized pvp, completely make it random like normal bgs, but increase like you wrote item level to 200(for this patch, with increasing ilvl in further patches) and put in a mmr and make it the first solo q actually giving rewards for your time invest as far as endgame system goes.

Playing alliance in lfg to get to even challenger(Knight), was not exactly an easy thing to do as alliance and only using LFG and no pvp guild. When i did this back in MoP as horde and dedicated RBG PvP guild, getting to rival was a piece of cake in rbgs.

There are far more horde groups looking for rbgs than alliance in LFG, this make it difficult to climb up in ranks legally. I do not use boosts as it makes playing the game irrelevant. BUT, as it stands right now, you can't play the game proper, if you want to do RBGs as Alliance by only using LFG its in huge contrast to 3vs3 Arenas.

I find a 3vs3 Arena team in 1-2 minutes even as alliance in the lfg tool and i can easily get to Rival in about 3 days.(But i don't get the juicy sweet RBG rank Titles and sometimes a spec fits better in bgs than arenas, like affliction warlock)

Why not redesign RBGs to make it solo que, random(no preteams), put in a minimum ilvl like 200, or 197, and proper mmr? i would love the MMR system that way working proper as intended, right now, due to lack of participants in alliance rbgs you are forced to take people with lower mmr ruining your CR with a potential loss.

Imagine looking for people for about 1 hour forming a group with a certain CR, just to lose rating? This system is completely flawed and the reward is not big enough over arenas, to justfy the huge time invest in organization.

Current RBG System is a total failure and the worst endgame system currently in SL. You can say about Raids, Mythic+, Arenas and even Snoozeghast all you want. But at least you can play them and chances are rather high to get a reward out of it as well for a fracture of the time invest compared to an organized rbg with an actual CR at risk.

If you want something to be popular you have to put carrot sticks and rewards into it, its really that easy.

Warmode unpopular and empty? Put in rewards, even plenty of cosmetics will populate it.

Imagine bringing alts to the table with this rbg system...lol

Say people are working on this game.....at all? If you play merely random bgs and rbgs you won't notice that. People got good ideas for decades now, and yet nothing was done lol

What a meme!

[Necromantic]

You claimed vannila had PvP where it should be but that was not the case, classes were horribly balanced and when you had gear players stood no chance because they died in 1-2 hits, vannila it was either your class was OP as hell so gear didnt matter or when you had all the gear your class could 1-2 shot most players.

That's my opinion and yours.

Classes are never going to be well balanced. We all know how badly the dev team does with balance. They'll take an OP class and make them next to useless for an entire expansion (or two) rather than slightly trim here and there.

And I played several cloth characters in vanilla and never got 1-2 shot. Those comments are myths.

[Artemol]

Outside of Ashran, which gives a 100% health buff to all melee specs while on the Ashran road, it's impossible for even Tanks to hit 80k health outside of CDs.

But yea, starting honor gear's ilvl is far too low, and costs way too much honor to get up to par. At this point it's far easier and better to instead just buy the PvP trinkets you need and use PvE to gear up to the point that you don't just get insta-gibbed.

My tank has 80k hp outside anything?

[kenn9530]

That's my opinion and yours.

Classes are never going to be well balanced. We all know how badly the dev team does with balance. They'll take an OP class and make them next to useless for an entire expansion (or two) rather than slightly trim here and there.

And I played several cloth characters in vanilla and never got 1-2 shot. Those comments are myths.

Its not an opinion its fact that blizzard cant balance classes so saying vanilla done it right it just plain wrong since it was terrible for class balance in vanilla. Those comments are not myths i have a high warlord rogue from vanilla, there were many classes when geared that could 1-2 shot so you didnt play vanilla at all did you.

[Raugnaut]

My tank has 80k hp outside anything?

The max tank I've seen was a Bear with 12% mastery that had 76k HP. This bear had 225 ilvl.

[Tyrannica]

Just reset the whole gear system back to TBC, done.

With reslience on pvp gear as exclusive stat and versatility removed, most of the burst issues wouldn't exist, and underwhelming specs that need to ramp up their dmg until deep dampening will become much stronger as high consistent damage will be of more value.

Versatility compared to old TBC resilence is a very stupid stat. It increases dmg much more than it reduces dmg(even more so with the pvp trinket bonus)

Who thought his was a good idea? Developers that never play pvp even once in their lifetime?

[Ealyssa]

My tank has 80k hp outside anything?

Please link armory, because you are lying

[Yhcti]

I don't think i've ever enjoyed PvP less in any expansion than I have in Shadowlands.

My 225 main dies in a 2-3 second stun roughly every 3rd or 4th game, which seems extremely unfair. 31% vers, 42k hp - gone.

My 210 alt is even worse, obviously.

The main issue I have is un-ranked queueing..

Example right now I'm in WSG against an ally premade, 7 of the 10 allies have sinful gladiator. 8 out of the10 on my team don't even have 30k hp. How is that fair? as an experienced pvper I HATE it, I can't imagine how fucking irritating and demoralizing this must be for someone who is fairly new or lacks the experience of the game.

Our entire team refuses to resurrect because the alliance premade are literally on our spawn point killing us upon spawn and are refusing to cap the flag until time runs out..

TL;DR, I can't wait for another game with decent PvP to come out, because this is absolute bullshit and the game has never been this bad.

https://imgur.com/nWoPdL0