Burning Crusade Classic Rewards Speculation, Where in Warcraft, Auroboros

[ParanoiD84]

Why are tabletop and D&D so popular? Unless you have many friends, that live nearby and got a ton of time to play it they are no fun....!

Taking warhammer as a example it's very fun to build and paint your models you can even give them names and lore backgrounds, then you take them to the battlefield as in the tabletop and face them against other armies and you get to see your hard work in action.

Many people don't even play tabletop they just love to paint the models.

You can also go to your local games workshop store and play with others there if you don't have friends who play.

[quras]

tabletop? Its like board games?

Not quite.
It's like playing dungeons and Dragons which it seems auroborus is based off of. But like other tabletop games, some board games. There is dice rolling, board/ maps to play on and minis to move around the map that are avatars of you. Similarities but not exactly like a board game.

The issue I see is it seems to focus far to much on one player and that one player having all this power to do amazing things as the "serpent marked". Even at the cost of possible madness or any detriment really, it doesn't change the underlying premise. ONE player and all this power they have.

That is quite possibly the worst design you could have in a D&D setting or game. he "Look at me character" concept or design that so easily overshadows the other players. It's a common theme to make sure everyone gets their spotlight. Everyone gets their moments as best as possible. You never start out with one player so far above the others and thats what it appears they have created.

So in turn, that means all the other players will be well below the power level of this one "serpent marked".

At the moment, the game sounds rather terrible given small bit of information thats been released and there is no amount of "teaching" moments they could write up that fixes that major flaw in their Kickstarter campaign 5E design. I'd like more information on it but as it stands now, it's a no go bit of material. No single player should be singled out above the rest at the table to such a degree.

I can see it now.

ALL OTHER PLAYERS: We decided to just kill the Serpent Marked and be done with it.

DM: But why. He could help you and he's kind of cursed with possible madness or worse - player death (AKA a move that doesn't happen as much as it's talked about). It's a handicap being Serpent Marked really.

SERPENT MARKED PLAYER: Yea. Can't you see me warping reality to my needs is really a hinderance. When I shattered that mountain I almost went crazy and after all, you can throw a fireball 3 times a day that blows things up in a 20ft radius. Thats awesome!

ALL OTHER PLAYER: It's best we get rid of the drama early and get on with the game everyone feels powerful in playing and not minions hanging around Mr. god-like over there. We'd like to roll initiative.

I can't see much good in the current concept around this design.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The issue I see is it seems to focus far to much on one player and that one player having all this power to do amazing things as the "serpent marked". Even at the cost of possible madness or any detriment really, it doesn't change the underlying premise. ONE player and all this power they have.

Is it just one player? I might have missed that in the clip, but I figured they would just be aping the "Eberron - Rising from the Last War" setting stuff where people can have marks instead of some feats or general stat improvements. The mechanic is not exactly new in 5e and everyone can incorporate it into their character, at the end it always is down to the DM to let it happen or not. I mean even if it is a completely seperate progression (Metzen's words could be interpreted that way), then the idea isn't new either, Curse of Straht had the Dark Powers that you could take for example. It remains to be seen how balanced the whole thing is though, I agree with that. Blowing up mountain tops will probably not be a first level spell, let's be real here. That's kinda the domain of 9th+ level, which might require to forsake a couple other powers on the way. That is something people will find out rather quick though, so it's best to wait imho.

[quras]

Is it just one player? SNIP....

It's in this article over at Polygon.

https://www.polygon.com/22346478/dun...os-kickstarter

" Where regular 5th edition D&D campaigns can get bogged down in low-level fights, Warchief’s setting will give players incredible powers fairly early on. By tapping into this raw power, at least one player character in the party will be able to do incredible things. They could turn cities into stone, freeze entire oceans, or level mountains with the flick of their wrist. It will be up to the group’s Dungeon Master (DM) to roll with these punches.

But it will also be the role of the other characters at the table to deal with the aftereffects — and to help prevent one player from running away with the narrative. "

And while not just a single player, I expect it to be a rare thing given the wording and very likely just one player having it. "A least one player" - "Other players prevent one player from running away with the narrative" . Makes me think the number will be 1-2 at most. You have to have at least one given the game seems to revolve around that Serpent marked power person.

The more I read it I kind of dislike the nature of it as well. the DM just has to roll with the reality warping power. Just has to role with the mountain shattering powers at early levels. Yes, it's the DM's job to role with a lot of carzy things the players do but that seems way off for such a lower level he described in getting those abilities.

Combined with it's the players job to prevent the drama of one player running off with the narrative because of all this power and abilities they have. Might just be easier to kill them and be done with it. Which of course is highly discouraged in D&D. The whole PVP thing not really being supported at most tables, be it homebrew or Adventures league (which is a no go from the start in AL)

so while it could be just some bad wording, I get the feeling it's not and what is being presented doesn't sound like it will fit well into D&D. You simply cannot have a game in which one player is that far beyond the others, has that much of the game/story/narrative revolving around them and the others have to play second fiddle or handlers to them. It just wont fit well in most D&D game sessions.

[Smeller]

Every company is "greedy" in the world since a company's goal is to make money, therefore they will need to do actions to generate money, because if they don't make money shareholders etc. won't be too happy and they won't make money nor games. =)

Making money and collecting twice are seperate things.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's in this article over at Polygon.

https://www.polygon.com/22346478/dun...os-kickstarter

" Where regular 5th edition D&D campaigns can get bogged down in low-level fights, Warchief’s setting will give players incredible powers fairly early on. By tapping into this raw power, at least one player character in the party will be able to do incredible things. They could turn cities into stone, freeze entire oceans, or level mountains with the flick of their wrist. It will be up to the group’s Dungeon Master (DM) to roll with these punches.

But it will also be the role of the other characters at the table to deal with the aftereffects — and to help prevent one player from running away with the narrative. "

Okay I absolutely agree then, that sounds just awful. If I want to derail a campaign on level 1, I don't need a new source book for that, I can just hand out candy or start at level 20. Sounds more like an invitation to introduce semi-forced PvP intentionally into the game, because that seems to be the main reason to use that feature.

Edit:

“We’re including essays in the book, trying to anticipate some of the issues that can come up between players,” Metzen said. “‘Why does Johnny get all the attention as the serpent-marked character? What about me? I want to have compelling narrative.’ So we’re kind of going through all of these scenarios where the DM might find themselves dealing with those types of situations and providing guidelines of how to deal with the rest of the group.”

Lol, I mean even they anticipate that this will go south rather quickly. It's essentially codifying how to run a bad campaign into a source book, at least the way he mentioned it to the polygon wankers. Now I wonder what kind of flimsy answers they will provide to these questions, because I simply can't see any easy solution to this. I get the feeling Metzen's friends just couldn't find it in them to stand up to him and tell him that his ego-trip homebrew was only fun for one person.. Suddenly the whole World-Shaman thing makes alot more sense..

Not to mention his argument about getting bogged down in low level fights, I mean you can practically have people not fight at all for 19 levels (would be kinda boring though) and only have the party deal with social interactions and creative encounters and level them up with milestones. Nothing is stopping people from skipping the first couple of boring levels either and start at a higher level. Giving someone higher level spell powers to get around that perceived problem seems kinda overkill.

[ImpalerEU]

Finally, time to make Dark Portal welfare too. Spectral Tiger next?.

[MoanaLisa]

Why are tabletop and D&D so popular? Unless you have many friends, that live nearby and got a ton of time to play it they are no fun....

Not really true any longer. D&D is going through a renaissance of sorts and now it's possible to play D&D remotely on any number of platforms like D&D Beyond, Roll20 and lots of others. Or you can just Zoom sessions. The requirement to be close to anyone disappeared about 48 hours into the pandemic.

[quras]

Okay I absolutely agree then, that sounds just awful. If I want to derail a campaign on level 1, I don't need a new source book for that, I can just hand out candy or start at level 20. Sounds more like an invitation to introduce semi-forced PvP intentionally into the game, because that seems to be the main reason to use that feature.

Edit:

Lol, I mean even they anticipate that this will go south rather quickly. It's essentially codifying how to run a bad campaign into a source book, at least the way he mentioned it to the polygon wankers. Now I wonder what kind of flimsy answers they will provide to these questions, because I simply can't see any easy solution to this. I get the feeling Metzen's friends just couldn't find it in them to stand up to him and tell him that his ego-trip homebrew was only fun for one person.. Suddenly the whole World-Shaman thing makes alot more sense..

Not to mention his argument about getting bogged down in low level fights, I mean you can practically have people not fight at all for 19 levels (would be kinda boring though) and only have the party deal with social interactions and creative encounters and level them up with milestones. Nothing is stopping people from skipping the first couple of boring levels either and start at a higher level. Giving someone higher level spell powers to get around that perceived problem seems kinda overkill.

Most of that is my sentiment exactly.

I can't see this as a Kickstarter thats worth any money as an addition to D&D. It adds nothing to enhance the game for everyone and seems to be more about adding in player drama with the whole "player keeping other players in check" thing as well as potential for PVP which isn't good either in most cases. I can't see any campaign in any homebrew, LGS and definitely not adventures league where this would be fun for the whole table of players (and PVP is a no go in adventures league as it is). His auroboros concept almost goes against the whole point of playing with a group in D&D.

[Recovery]

Yay, time to make the Dark Portal hearthstone welfare too. Spectral Tiger next?.

Why are you upset? It wont mess with the rarity of the items on retail. Im sure it will be tbc classic exclusive. Dont worry. The rarity of your items will remain intact.

[bloodwulf]

Why are you upset? It wont mess with the rarity of the items on retail. Im sure it will be tbc classic exclusive. Dont worry. The rarity of your items will remain intact.

You got to understand, there are some players out there are all about selfishly protecting their own toys, and any attempt to allow others to have similar toys is met with stamping of feet and throwing a temper tantrum. When i was in kindergarten in the 90s, i couldn't bring my dragonzord to the park because there was always one kid that was mad i had the same toy as him.

[Freedom]

You got to understand, there are some players out there are all about selfishly protecting their own toys, and any attempt to allow others to have similar toys is met with stamping of feet and throwing a temper tantrum. When i was in kindergarten in the 90s, i couldn't bring my dragonzord to the park because there was always one kid that was mad i had the same toy as him.

Looks like some people literally never left the playground. I try to keep that in mind when I run into stupid, IRL or on the Internet - chances are that anti-LFR-obsessed weirdo or Trump supporter is either literally or figuratively not an adult yet.

[Recovery]

You got to understand, there are some players out there are all about selfishly protecting their own toys, and any attempt to allow others to have similar toys is met with stamping of feet and throwing a temper tantrum. When i was in kindergarten in the 90s, i couldn't bring my dragonzord to the park because there was always one kid that was mad i had the same toy as him.

I mean i would understand and possibly even agree if these items were being handed out on retail, but theyre not.

I like having rare things that noone else has too. But i literally give zero if people have them on a fringe version of the game.

I have season 2, 3, and 4 glad mounts on retail. People will be getting them on TBC classic AGAIN. But that doesnt take away from the prestige on retail. Its moot. And honestly, i cant wait to get them again tbc classic myself.

[bloodwulf]

I mean i would understand and possibly even agree if these items were being handed out on retail, but theyre not.

Yeah that is what i found hilarious. These items are going to be in BC-Classic. Which was the era that they were originally obtainable. So the TCG items being readded actually fit the game, as they are not currently obtainable in RL for normal people. If anything, the lack of their existence would be more anachronistic than them having an alternate means of acquisition. Presently, it is not affecting the Retail versions where the collectors hold value.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Most of that is my sentiment exactly.

I can't see this as a Kickstarter thats worth any money as an addition to D&D. It adds nothing to enhance the game for everyone and seems to be more about adding in player drama with the whole "player keeping other players in check" thing as well as potential for PVP which isn't good either in most cases. I can't see any campaign in any homebrew, LGS and definitely not adventures league where this would be fun for the whole table of players (and PVP is a no go in adventures league as it is). His auroboros concept almost goes against the whole point of playing with a group in D&D.

While I agree, I doubt being AL conform was ever on the agenda. I haven't ever played there, but I was under the impression that you only get to use official WotC (core?) material, namely the PHB and one additional source book for your character? Unless you have a local guy that is really eager to sift through every new player's random nonsense homebrew ideas I don't see them use external sources anyway. I'm not even sure, can you use the critical role or penny arcade cross over books? Though I guess AL is one the few places where I've heard of people actually running with widely different character levels (for some inexplicable reason).

Anyway, for me it's mostly morbid curiosity now. I definitely would like to see their solutions - in essay form, as promised - to imbalancing the whole game by giving one player the equivalent of high level spell slots beyond the normal scope and making that one player effectively a version of "that guy". While I'm surely not going to back it with that premise, I'm definitely going to try and find some exceperts of these parts on the internet - for a good laugh .

[Frolk]

I imagine the mount is for Retail and not for tbc classic.

I'm glad for the boost though definitely has me excited for jumping into tbc classic where as i skipped vanilla classic altogether.

Got a feeling its a reward to retail for playing TBC, it is a small chance the reward will be added to both retail AND tbc, i give it 10%.