NEW Warpstalker mount added to TBC classic. Potential store mount.

[ehma]

That's a nice imaginary argument you have there.

How on earth do you expect anybody to be able to reason with you when you're literally making shit up to prove your point?

How is it imaginary lol, go look at the retail mount shop right now dude.

[arr0gance]

How is it imaginary lol, go look at the retail mount shop right now dude.

Hang on, I'm logging into Wrath Classic. Oh wai-

[ehma]

Hang on, I'm logging into Wrath Classic. Oh wai-

Oh you really didn’t understand what he was saying... oh wow okay well let me try to explain it I guess...

He is saying that if they get on a path where cash mounts are a thing, there will be no reason to farm rare mounts out in the world because you can get just as cool if not cooler mounts on the shop. He just used the wrath classic as an example because the time lost proto drake is something people farm a lot.

Maybe we have to keep this really simple for you.

Why in tbc classic would you go farm rep for the nagrand mount, or go farm sethikk halls for the bird mount in order to get a unique mount that isn’t your races.... if you could just buy the warp stalker mount on the shop.

His argument is you let one in you’re going to let more in, and it will get bad enough to where a situation like the one he mentioned will 100% be an issue, hence retail.

[Prag]

Oh you really didn’t understand what he was saying... oh wow okay well let me try to explain it I guess...

He is saying that if they get on a path where cash mounts are a thing, there will be no reason to farm rare mounts out in the world because you can get just as cool if not cooler mounts on the shop. He just used the wrath classic as an example because the time lost proto drake is something people farm a lot.

Maybe we have to keep this really simple for you.

Why in tbc classic would you go farm rep for the nagrand mount, or go farm sethikk halls for the bird mount in order to get a unique mount that isn’t your races.... if you could just buy the warp stalker mount on the shop.

His argument is you let one in you’re going to let more in, and it will get bad enough to where a situation like the one he mentioned will 100% be an issue, hence retail.

It’s simple enough to understand, but the subjective nature of “cool” doesn’t hold water. Nothing at all in the store was as recognizable as A’lar, or even the Netherwing drakes.

Since they have never sold a Raid/Dungeon/Holiday mount in the shop, I just don’t see the argument of it taking away the uniqueness of those hard earned mounts.

[ehma]

It’s simple enough to understand, but the subjective nature of “cool” doesn’t hold water. Nothing at all in the store was as recognizable as A’lar, or even the Netherwing drakes.

Since they have never sold a Raid/Dungeon/Holiday mount in the shop, I just don’t see the argument of it taking away the uniqueness of those hard earned mounts.

Ok then don’t think of it as “cool” and this of it as unique. Every single mount in the shop right now, would have had a massive effect on tbc in terms of the limited “uniqueness” of mounts.

For the most part, everyone was riding around in griphons and flight forms. If you were dedicated enough to farm reps you could have gotten the nether drakes and nether rays. But the number of unique mounts were still only a handfull. And yes every single mount in the shop in retail would be as recognizable as alar, given if it was released back then.

[Kralljin]

Since they have never sold a Raid/Dungeon/Holiday mount in the shop, I just don’t see the argument of it taking away the uniqueness of those hard earned mounts.

A unique mount stands out in TBC far more, simply because fewer exist.

Vast majority of players in TBC will stick to one of those mounts you can just buy off a vendor, simply because only a handful exist.

Right now in Classic, you only have 3-4 unique mounts
1.Black Drone
2.ZG Mounts
3.Baron Mount
PvP Mounts are becoming more accessible in TBC, so that automatically cancels them out.

Suddenly seeing a unique mount via MTX is a pretty huge blow, because most are just going to have a "vendor" mount - especially when a compareable mount doesn't even exist on Retail.

[roboscorcher]

That's a nice imaginary argument you have there.

How on earth do you expect anybody to be able to reason with you when you're literally making shit up to prove your point?

It's called a hypothetical. It's a bit of an extreme comparison, but it gets the point across. Which is: when there are attractive items that require no in-game effort to earn, similar or less attractive items are devalued. Maybe not by stats, but by visual appeal and rarity.

EDIT: If you want a more concrete example of this concept, consider the community's reaction to the Ashbringer in Legion. While many people were happy to have the weapon, the general complaint was "everyone has one now." What's the reasoning behind this complaint, in your mind? In my mind, it's because a unique super-powerful weapon was now available to every ret paladin, and there was little effort to obtain it. Of course, the unlockable skins mitigated this issue by allowing skilled players to differentiate themselves, but the complaint persists to this day.

Store mounts are similar. If there's a purchasable golden dragon on the store, new players are less likely to appreciate and seek out similar or lesser model. This is a more subjective thing than comparing DPS rankings, but it's still a problem.

[Gimlix]

when has that sort of thing ever happened

Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, Diablo. Carry on?

[Prag]

Ok then don’t think of it as “cool” and this of it as unique. Every single mount in the shop right now, would have had a massive effect on tbc in terms of the limited “uniqueness” of mounts.

For the most part, everyone was riding around in griphons and flight forms. If you were dedicated enough to farm reps you could have gotten the nether drakes and nether rays. But the number of unique mounts were still only a handfull. And yes every single mount in the shop in retail would be as recognizable as alar, given if it was released back then.

So if the general population decides to farm the rep for Netherwing drakes or Nether rays and nobody rides a gryphon or wind rider anymore, is that a problem?

You argument for uniqueness seems to depend on everyone using the base mount, and that's just not how you measure it. If 10% of the population has Ashes of A'lar, and the other 90% are using a variety of vendor/form/rep mounts, that 90% could shift to any other mount and not change the fact that only 10% has Ashes.

Edit: Ah, I misread the part about "the number of unique mounts".

[roboscorcher]

So if the general population decides to farm the rep for Netherwing drakes or Nether rays and nobody rides a gryphon or wind rider anymore, is that a problem?

If everyone farms and uses those mounts, the rarity and cool factor does go down. But at least players played the game to get them!

[ehma]

So if the general population decides to farm the rep for Netherwing drakes or Nether rays and nobody rides a gryphon or wind rider anymore, is that a problem?

You argument for uniqueness seems to depend on everyone using the base mount, and that's just not how you measure it. If 10% of the population has Ashes of A'lar, and the other 90% are using a variety of vendor/form/rep mounts, that 90% could shift to any other mount and not change the fact that only 10% has Ashes.

Jesus Christ man I seriously don’t know how you don’t get this, this really isn’t that hard.

No, if people all farmed rep and got a nether drake that wouldn’t be an issue. My argument wasn’t that everyone is riding gryphons I just said that’s how it’s probably going to be. If everyone ride nether drakes, that isn’t increasing the amount of unique mounts in the game, that’s just everyone deciding to go after ONE of the unique mounts.

Maybe I need to use a hypothetical and an extreme one for you to understand better.

Let’s say we have a game with 3 mounts.

One every person gets when they hit 70 (gryphon)

One you get for completing a semi-difficult task (nether drake)

And one you get for completing a super difficult task (ashes of alar equivalent)

With this system the second mount sets you off from most of the pack because it shows you actually accomplished something and you have that sort of unique mount that proves it.

And having the third REALLY makes you set yourself apart from everyone else and people might even stop to look at you for a second.

Just because more people decide to farm the second mount, doesn’t make that mount “worse” it just means it gave people something to strive for.



Now let’s say there is a game with 500 mounts, most of them being unique or at least fairly flashy.

Well now because there is such an influx of mounts you don’t even really know where half of them come from. You might walk by a guy on a crazy hard to get mount, but it doesn’t really hold that much flashy ness because the guy next to him has a crazy colorful mount too but he spent $20 on the store.

Of course, as I mentioned, this is one extreme to another, but you seem to be struggling to grasp the idea so this makes it easier to understand. When you add mounts like this to the store you are adding to the amount of unique mounts put into the game. And when you do this, you make every other ‘unique’ mount less and less unique.

Ever hear the saying “when everyone is special, no one is special” that’s the gist of it.

[Prag]

Jesus Christ man I seriously don’t know how you don’t get this, this really isn’t that hard.

No, if people all farmed rep and got a nether drake that wouldn’t be an issue. My argument wasn’t that everyone is riding gryphons I just said that’s how it’s probably going to be. If everyone ride nether drakes, that isn’t increasing the amount of unique mounts in the game, that’s just everyone deciding to go after ONE of the unique mounts.

Maybe I need to use a hypothetical and an extreme one for you to understand better.

Let’s say we have a game with 3 mounts.

One every person gets when they hit 70 (gryphon)

One you get for completing a semi-difficult task (nether drake)

And one you get for completing a super difficult task (ashes of alar equivalent)

With this system the second mount sets you off from most of the pack because it shows you actually accomplished something and you have that sort of unique mount that proves it.

And having the third REALLY makes you set yourself apart from everyone else and people might even stop to look at you for a second.

Just because more people decide to farm the second mount, doesn’t make that mount “worse” it just means it gave people something to strive for.



Now let’s say there is a game with 500 mounts, most of them being unique or at least fairly flashy.

Well now because there is such an influx of mounts you don’t even really know where half of them come from. You might walk by a guy on a crazy hard to get mount, but it doesn’t really hold that much flashy ness because the guy next to him has a crazy colorful mount too but he spent $20 on the store.

Of course, as I mentioned, this is one extreme to another, but you seem to be struggling to grasp the idea so this makes it easier to understand. When you add mounts like this to the store you are adding to the amount of unique mounts put into the game. And when you do this, you make every other ‘unique’ mount less and less unique.

Ever hear the saying “when everyone is special, no one is special” that’s the gist of it.

Take a breath, read the edit, and pat yourself on the back for being the smartest person to have ever visited these forums.

[ehma]

Take a breath, read the edit, and pat yourself on the back for being the smartest person to have ever visited these forums.

Not claiming to be the smartest in anything, but I’m not really sure what response you would expect when you clearly missed the point entirely lol.

[Prag]

Not claiming to be the smartest in anything, but I’m not really sure what response you would expect when you clearly missed the point entirely lol.

You’re using uniqueness in two contexts. You got a response to one because I didn’t assume you were taking the stance of being against any mount being added to TBC via any means (which the second context indicates), just based on your other posts.

[crusadernero]

In Classic, mounts are not a dime a dozen. They are still somewhat challenging to obtain, and a lot of people play specifically to avoid all the paid cosmetic stuff in retail.

MMO's are very grindy, and good MMO's allow the hard-working players to show off their hard-earned rewards. When those art assets are siphoned off to cash stores, these assets are taken off the list of "I want to earn this one day" for new players. That means they are - to some extent - less likely to continue playing the game.

Cash stores do hurt WoW long-term. Why farm a Timelost Protodrake in Wrath Classic when the cash shop has a Gold Protodrake up for $5?

Well yeah I agree. Mounts should be rewarding to obtain one way or another. Be it by really low drop chance, long grinds or difficult challenges to overcome. Maybe I worded myself wrong but im just saying that these store mounts devalues it all. If a BC store mount comes out at launch, how many are out in 2+ years?

[ehma]

You’re using uniqueness in two contexts. You got a response to one because I didn’t assume you were taking the stance of being against any mount being added to TBC via any means (which the second context indicates), just based on your other posts.

What other context would I be using it for? How else did I possibly frame my opinion? And even still, how does this even explain your response lol.

[crusadernero]

How many unique mounts (black drone, ZG, Baron, can't even count the PvP mounts because they'll be easier to grab in TBC) do you own on Classic?

Just out of curiosity.

Fair enough assesment, since in classic there are less mounts in the game compared to retail. But I still stand with that these store mount devalues all other content and is a cheap ploy from Blizzard to make a quick buck. Yes, yes they are a company and a company should make money - but how much should they make while ruining a beloved franchise? Its not like they arent making money already.

Oh and I have the baron mount.

[Kralljin]

Fair enough assesment, since in classic there are less mounts in the game compared to retail. But I still stand with that these store mount devalues all other content and is a cheap ploy from Blizzard to make a quick buck.

I mean, i fully agree with you on that account, i was however put off by the

Who the F cares anymore about mounts?

Because unique mounts in Classic / TBC are a huge deal because they stand out so much.

[arr0gance]

Oh you really didn’t understand what he was saying... oh wow okay well let me try to explain it I guess...

He is saying that if they get on a path where cash mounts are a thing, there will be no reason to farm rare mounts out in the world because you can get just as cool if not cooler mounts on the shop. He just used the wrath classic as an example because the time lost proto drake is something people farm a lot.

Maybe we have to keep this really simple for you.

Why in tbc classic would you go farm rep for the nagrand mount, or go farm sethikk halls for the bird mount in order to get a unique mount that isn’t your races.... if you could just buy the warp stalker mount on the shop.

His argument is you let one in you’re going to let more in, and it will get bad enough to where a situation like the one he mentioned will 100% be an issue, hence retail.

The argument is crystal clear and very fucking stupid. It's a textbook slippery slope fallacy. Regardless, it's clear the developers could give a shit about #NoChanges purists who balk at their attempts to monetize Classic. I fully support any decision Blizzard makes to upset private server players who think the developers owe them shit.

[Kralljin]

I fully support any decision Blizzard makes to upset private server players who think the developers owe them shit.

When your sole goal is to upset other people, you are the textbook definition of a troll, or at the very least, the enabler of trolls.