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  1. #1

    Can someone explain to me the potential logic in these Drum changes?

    So in the "no changes" version of TBC everyone is required to have LW to chain drums for 100% uptime. Blizzard apparently was looking into this to try and change this and they came up with:

    - An older version of drums that now adds an additional layer of annoyance in requiring people to stack up to get the drum buffs while the mandatory nature remains unchanged.
    - Add the "no changes" version of the drums in the game as a recipe that now requires people to split raid farm Zul'Aman on lockout to try and get these recipes on every raider as quick as they can, while the mandatory nature remains unchanged.
    - Increase the costs of the "no changes" versions of the drums for good measure.
    - Makes it impossible or at least very undesirable to drop LW for whatever reason as you'd lose the recipe.

    Who exactly was helped by this change? Is there even a single positive in this?
    Last edited by Naraga; 2021-03-26 at 12:28 AM.

  2. #2
    There is a thread discussing this right beside the one you just made.
    Yeah Blizz has no idea what they are doing with this.

  3. #3
    The goal of the change is to imitate the 2007 patch cycle and have drums become overpowered when Zul'aman hits.

    They don't actually intend to nerf drums.

  4. #4
    Imagine actually making the drum situation worse, instead of either leaving it alone or improving it.

    That's exactly what just happened.

  5. #5
    Also something interesting to think about for the "Its not mandatory crowd".

    Wbuffs aren't mandatory either yet there is an incredible number of guilds that cannot clear Naxx without them. I know all of you will probably be in guilds that do 15/15 in one night with no wbuffs, consumes and while missing 15 players but for the majority of naxx clearing guilds its the difference between 13/15 and 15/15 as they have to go and get rebuffed in order to kill Saphiron.

    You can make an argument as to whether this is good or bad but the reality is that the majority of these guilds will rather require or "incentivize" their members to get wbuffs than accept they will not progress beyond 6/15 without them, in essence making them mandatory for a large group of raiders. And this is for content that was not balanced around Wbuffs.

    Now question yourself, will the majority of guilds accept not downing Brutallus over requiring their members to have leatherworking?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Imagine actually making the drum situation worse, instead of either leaving it alone or improving it.

    That's exactly what just happened.
    Precisely.

  7. #7
    I would prefer a simple change where someone uses a drum and it gives a raid wide cd or something to where only 5 people are needed for uptime or some shit. That or their outright removal even. Gimmicky stuff takes away from the enjoyment of the expac.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    Also something interesting to think about for the "Its not mandatory crowd".

    Wbuffs aren't mandatory either yet there is an incredible number of guilds that cannot clear Naxx without them. I know all of you will probably be in guilds that do 15/15 in one night with no wbuffs, consumes and while missing 15 players but for the majority of naxx clearing guilds its the difference between 13/15 and 15/15 as they have to go and get rebuffed in order to kill Saphiron.

    You can make an argument as to whether this is good or bad but the reality is that the majority of these guilds will rather require or "incentivize" their members to get wbuffs than accept they will not progress beyond 6/15 without them, in essence making them mandatory for a large group of raiders. And this is for content that was not balanced around Wbuffs.

    Now question yourself, will the majority of guilds accept not downing Brutallus over requiring their members to have leatherworking?
    World buffs can literally increase raid dps by 100% with decreased kill time factored in. For a warrior alone it's like a 60% damage increase and 3,000 more HP.

    Drums are 5% throughput tops and no extra HP.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    World buffs can literally increase raid dps by 100% with decreased kill time factored in. For a warrior alone it's like a 60% damage increase and 3,000 more HP.

    Drums are 5% throughput tops and no extra HP.
    You forgot to mention if you agree with what he said.
    We already know what drums bring.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    You forgot to mention if you agree with what he said.
    We already know what drums bring.
    I don't agree, world buffs are too big to ignore. 5% is nice but not game breaking.

  11. #11
    He is 100% right though.
    The guilds that required engi and wbuffs will require LW or whichever profession is bis.
    It is literally the same meta of requiring BIS profs.

  12. #12
    Engineering in classic lets you instantly kill packs and adds and generally break the game in a lot of ways.

    Leatherworking gives you a small throughput boost. There's plenty of guilds that won't care. It's a 14 year old game that isn't that hard.

  13. #13
    It doesn't matter.
    BIS is BIS and in minmaxing guilds you have to be BIS or find a casual guild.
    It was like this in classic and it will be like this in classic TBC.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    It doesn't matter.
    BIS is BIS and in minmaxing guilds you have to be BIS or find a casual guild.
    It was like this in classic and it will be like this in classic TBC.
    If you don't want to be in a casual guild there's sacrifices you have to make.

    Plenty of casual guilds will complete all TBC content without stacking leatherworking.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    It doesn't matter.
    BIS is BIS and in minmaxing guilds you have to be BIS or find a casual guild.
    It was like this in classic and it will be like this in classic TBC.
    Even casual guilds will be doing drum meta. The world buff scene trickled down even to lower end casual guilds in Classic Vanilla.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Even casual guilds will be doing drum meta. The world buff scene trickled down even to lower end casual guilds in Classic Vanilla.
    World buffs are 10x stronger than leatherworking and don't require you to spend a ton of gold on them. Casual guilds didn't require everyone to go engineering.

  17. #17
    5% haste =/= 5% dmg so not a big deal

  18. #18
    I think the intention is to make the big drums raidwide. Like this the original power remains but it’s less people per raid that are „forced“ to go lw.

    Also I think comparing drums to WB‘s isn’t right if you look at how much power it gives the raid. WB‘s are huge in terms of dps, sustain and survivability, while drums are a minor increase to dps/hps.

    Also this is the very first beta build. Give it time, it‘ll be fine.

  19. #19
    If Greater are raid wide, it makes sense. Then it's just like TBC, but not mandatory.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DerJules View Post
    I think the intention is to make the big drums raidwide. Like this the original power remains but it’s less people per raid that are „forced“ to go lw.

    Also I think comparing drums to WB‘s isn’t right if you look at how much power it gives the raid. WB‘s are huge in terms of dps, sustain and survivability, while drums are a minor increase to dps/hps.

    Also this is the very first beta build. Give it time, it‘ll be fine.
    There's been 0 indication that they will be raid wide. There was a blue post that said the greater drums will have a larger range because in vanilla TBC, drums had an 8 yard range until ZA, where they were buffed to 40. That is the reason Blizzard gave.

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