Why was Arthas wrong?

[Adamas102]

The Culling of Stratholme quests show us that Arthas' forces noticed the cursed grain just outside Stratholme. After all, the whole quest was about us undoing the Infinite Dragonflight's magic that was hiding the cursed grain, so Arthas' troops could notice it

This is kind of the issue with trying to tell the same story multiple times through multiple mediums. In neither WC3 nor the novelization is anything mentioned about seeing cursed grain crates outside the city. Even in the instance, there's no mention of them since the exchange at the gates is copied verbatim from WC3. The games have to make it into a playable mission so they take A LOT of liberties with the story.

In WC3 Mal'Ganis makes his way throughout the city with an entourage of ghouls and aboms, and he can be encountered and killed multiple times throughout the mission. You also see people who are clearly just walking around sick well before they turn. In the scenario, Arthas also has part of his forces building camp nearby, which of course doesn't match later iterations of the event. We also know (after the fact) that Mal'Ganis isn't trying to raise an army for himself or kill Arthas, but rather just goad him to go to Northrend.

In the Caverns of Time instance, the city has cult of the damned necromancers, nerubians, and other types of undead doted throughout. Arthas also leaves most of his men outside the gates and only enters with the player group. And unlike WC3 where you're trying to kill villagers before they turn, in this scenario Arthas only kills 2 humans at the gates and then the entire city simply becomes ghouls and zombies which means there is NO CULLING! Yeah, I wouldn't take anything in the Culling of Stratholme instance at face value.

In both game versions, Arthas also leaves most of his forces posted outside the city. In the book, most of the troops leave with Uther and he proceeds with the purge with all the ones who remained.

The best source is still the book. Its whole point is to depict the story without worrying about quests, balance, and other game mechanics, as well as give us the inner thoughts of the main characters along the way. The book makes a point of noting that the smell of bread (which Arthas keeps smelling even hours later when the blood, smoke, and time should have drowned it out) is what convinces him the city is infected. No grain crates, no zombification. It very clearly states that Arthas killed mostly living humans, meeting only sporadic zombie forces. He only finds out Mal'Ganis is indeed there a while into the slaughter, and only confronts him at the very end (he never witnesses Mal'Ganis gathering undead, and indeed finds him alone before he teleports out).

The book most strongly supports the story that Arthas made a rash decision with very little evidence, killed mostly living humans who he could not have known were infected or not, and the ultimate plan was for Mal'Ganis to trick Arthas into following him to Northrend, not raise an undead army and spread across the kingdom.

[Aresk]

I’m pretty sure arthas never had the power to resurrect with the light unless I missed something.

Resurrection requires a ton of power and even Uther doesn’t do it and he’s way stronger in the light then Arthas ever was.

It's the paladin's heroic ability in WC3. Arthas was able to use it starting during the Culling of Stratholme and throughout Northrend. It requires the recently deceased, which the people were. Also, doesn't Uther use it when Arthas as a death knight confronts him (maybe only on hard difficulty)?

As far as I understand things, actual resurrection is not really a thing in Warcraft. At least, not to the point of being something so common. Otherwise, it raises the question: why wasn't Cairne resurrected? Why wasn't Varian resurrected? Or Vol'jin? Or Admiral Taylor? Or Dranosh? Or Saurfang? Or every single character that died in the history of Warcraft?

Farseer Grimwalker is the first example that comes to mind of a character canonically being resurrected. Whitemane famously does it in the encounter in the Scarlet Monastery. Obviously we have Terenas and Eonar resurrecting players in the Lich King and Argus fights. While the last two examples could be excused as game mechanics, the first is an instance of a dead tauren being brought back to life outside of encounter mechanics. Also, Zekhan was brought back by Bwonsamdi, though it's not clear to me whether he was dead or dying (but considering his soul was traveling to the Maw, I assume dead).

With respect to your specific examples, I can't say for certain why Cairne wasn't, though I can speculate: he willingly entered a challenge to the death, so bringing him back would be to against his willingness to die for that cause; furthermore, his appearance in the tauren heritage questline has him taking some role in balancing the spirit realm, so there may be some cause for him to want to stay there. Varian was killed with fel magic and body destroyed, so he may not even have a soul anymore. Vol'jin is being actively resurrected in the Winter Court, so I'm not sure why he's a counter argument. I don't recall the details of Admiral Taylor's death, but I know his soul was lingering not unlike the Court of Farondis, who are actively looking for a means to return to the living, so again it seems like it may be possible but difficult. Dranosh was absorbed into Frostmourne and thus could not be brought back until Tirion destroyed the sword. Saurfang, again as speculation, died to a Jailer-pumped up Sylvanas, so it's possible that the death magic employed blocked resurrection.

You just mentioned Kalecgos, did you not?

Kalecgos said Arthas had misguided compassion, not that the Culling was a good or even necessary thing. He was using that example when persuading Jaina not to destroy Orgrimmar, saying that it would be akin to the Culling, except even worse since it would be done out of vengeance, which is far from condoning the action.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's the paladin's heroic ability in WC3. Arthas was able to use it starting during the Culling of Stratholme and throughout Northrend. It requires the recently deceased, which the people were. Also, doesn't Uther use it when Arthas as a death knight confronts him (maybe only on hard difficulty)?

That's gameplay not lore one doesn't tend to translate to the other neither of them use it at all in the lore.

[huth]

So raising people from the dead nah thats totally normal, but people being turned undead by poisoned food!? gasp thats impossible!!!!!!!!

When you live in a world where the former, while not commonplace, is certainly not unheard of, but the latter never happened? Well, of course.

The book most strongly supports the story that Arthas made a rash decision with very little evidence, killed mostly living humans who he could not have known were infected or not, and the ultimate plan was for Mal'Ganis to trick Arthas into following him to Northrend, not raise an undead army and spread across the kingdom.

If you take the book version, it's even possible that what few undead he actually met were deliberately introduced by Mal'ganis to goad Arthas into breaking his oaths, rather than the city actually being infected.

[Adamas102]

If you take the book version, it's even possible that what few undead he actually met were deliberately introduced by Mal'ganis to goad Arthas into breaking his oaths, rather than the city actually being infected.

Exactly. The passage in the book where Mal'Ganis first addresses Arthas (he and his men only hear the voice, they don't see the dreadlord till all the slaughter is over) coincides with the first time they're attacked by undead. They don't even see a transformation, it's just a group of zombies that bursts out of one house.

...even as Arthas’s men, who also heard the voice, turned and sought the source, the doors of a house where villagers had been hiding was flung open and walking corpses hastened out.

Given that this occurs after encountering only civilians, first the ones who were too shocked to act and then the ones who managed to put up a fight, it definitely could be read as being part of Mal'Ganis' scheme to make Arthas believe that he had to keep purging.

[Karreck]

The intentional killing of innocents is an evil act.
Full stop.

[Ielenia]

It's the paladin's heroic ability in WC3. Arthas was able to use it starting during the Culling of Stratholme and throughout Northrend. It requires the recently deceased, which the people were. Also, doesn't Uther use it when Arthas as a death knight confronts him (maybe only on hard difficulty)?

You're not going to use game mechanics as lore, are you?

Farseer Grimwalker is the first example that comes to mind of a character canonically being resurrected. Whitemane famously does it in the encounter in the Scarlet Monastery. Obviously we have Terenas and Eonar resurrecting players in the Lich King and Argus fights. While the last two examples could be excused as game mechanics, the first is an instance of a dead tauren being brought back to life outside of encounter mechanics. Also, Zekhan was brought back by Bwonsamdi, though it's not clear to me whether he was dead or dying (but considering his soul was traveling to the Maw, I assume dead).

Eonar is a Titan. The Titan of life, and considering the immense power of Titans, I wouldn't put resurrection on it. Terenas, though, it could be explained by saying we're not dead as in "lore-wise dead" but more like knocked out, and Terenas brings us back.

But again, there's still the fact that actual resurrection is very, very uncommonly seen in Warcraft lore, especially with such big shots being killed and not revived, like Cairne and Varian, and those around them mourning their losses. All of that indicates that actual resurrection isn't exactly a common or even easy thing to do.

With respect to your specific examples, I can't say for certain why Cairne wasn't, though I can speculate: he willingly entered a challenge to the death, so bringing him back would be to against his willingness to die for that cause; furthermore, his appearance in the tauren heritage questline has him taking some role in balancing the spirit realm, so there may be some cause for him to want to stay there. Varian was killed with fel magic and body destroyed, so he may not even have a soul anymore. Vol'jin is being actively resurrected in the Winter Court, so I'm not sure why he's a counter argument. I don't recall the details of Admiral Taylor's death, but I know his soul was lingering not unlike the Court of Farondis, who are actively looking for a means to return to the living, so again it seems like it may be possible but difficult. Dranosh was absorbed into Frostmourne and thus could not be brought back until Tirion destroyed the sword. Saurfang, again as speculation, died to a Jailer-pumped up Sylvanas, so it's possible that the death magic employed blocked resurrection.

You didn't understand my examples. I said that if resurrection is so uncommon and simple to do, why weren't those characters raised soon after death? Cairne died in a battle to the death, yes, but said battle was rigged, and Garrosh killed Cairne by unknowingly (arguable, but that's not here or there) having his weapon coated in poison. Why didn't Baine resurrect his father who was killed by someone who was in violation of the rules of the duel? And Vol'jin, again: he was the warchief of the Horde. Why would the Horde not resurrect his warchief after his death instead of burning his body in a pyre?

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The intentional killing of innocents is an evil act.
Full stop.

So trying to prevent an incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse condemn everyone into becoming a mindless, raging undead is an evil act?

[sam86]

However it scarred him psychologically and reputationally as such things are wont to do, setting the stage for being corrupted as he was.

He needed Jaina the most, he needed Uther, instead they made him know only he was right and then Lich King born...

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So trying to prevent an incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse condemn everyone into becoming a mindless, raging undead is an evil act?

no it isn't
And this maybe first time EVER i see someone say Stratholme was a wrong act

[Karreck]

So trying to prevent an incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse condemn everyone into becoming a mindless, raging undead is an evil act?

If the methods of prevention are to indiscriminately slaughter innocent people, then yes, it is an evil act.

[Ielenia]

If the methods of prevention are to indiscriminately slaughter innocent people, then yes, it is an evil act.

So the good course of action would be to let every single person in the city either suffer the incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse and turn into a mindless, raging undead... or be horrifically killed by said mindless, raging undead?

[Varitok]

Boy, I sure am glad no one here is leading a country during the current pandemic...

[Kathranis]

So the good course of action would be to let every single person in the city either suffer the incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse and turn into a mindless, raging undead... or be horrifically killed by said mindless, raging undead?

Am I mistaken or didn't they all get murdered anyway, and didn't they all turn into undead anyway, and wasn't it Arthas that commanded them as Scourge?

[FelPlague]

Boy, I sure am glad no one here is leading a country during the current pandemic...

Literal fucking zombies is not equal to corona virus.

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Am I mistaken or didn't they all get murdered anyway, and didn't they all turn into undead anyway, and wasn't it Arthas that commanded them as Scourge?

Yes they all died anyways, that was unavoidable, so he killed them to give them a quick painless death, and also to reduce the amount of undead, so that the kingdom would not fall to the horde.

also yeah? he commanded them later in life cause he became the lich king, how does that change the original thing unless you think he could see the future?

[Keyblader]

It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't, situation. People were going to turn, and Arthas saw that. It was a situation where Uther and Jaina had the mindset of "there has to be another way." But time was also working against them, in the time it took them to try and come up with another plan, which who knows how long that would have been, the plague could have spread, and made things worse. So Arthas decided to try and staunch the bleeding before it got worse, so to speak. Both sides were right, and both sides were wrong, and no one had the "correct answer"

[Verdugo]

Its really easy to see how current writing has completely poisoned the point of view of many people. They expect that Arthas should have pulled some Anduin-level miracle out of his ass to save the entire city and give Mal'Ganis a wedgie.

[huth]

So the good course of action would be to let every single person in the city either suffer the incurable, untreatable, undetectable curse and turn into a mindless, raging undead... or be horrifically killed by said mindless, raging undead?

The plague was not undetectable, untreatable or incurable, though. They did eventually discover a cure and a way to treat it, and neither of those would make sense if it couldn't be detected.
Also, what makes it evil is that he never even considered alternative courses of action but immediately went kill-them-all without even ensuring that anybody was infected in the first place.

[Verdugo]

They did eventually discover a cure and a way to treat it.

Source on that?

[Ielenia]

The plague was not undetectable, untreatable or incurable, though.

It was, at that very moment.

They did eventually discover a cure and a way to treat it, and neither of those would make sense if it couldn't be detected.

"Eventually."

Also, what makes it evil is that he never even considered alternative courses of action

Because, again, there was no time.

[FarmerEd]

I'm not sure where the urgency came from. Stratholme was easy to lock so the plague wouldn't get out. Of course, now we know that he happened to be right and there was no way to cure someone that has been turned, but that doesn't excuse him just deciding that was the case without knowledge.

One way or another the people would die, so what was the point of doing it quicker so that they didn't have a chance?

[huth]

It was, at that very moment.

No, it wasn't. It's always been detectable, treatable and curable. That you don't currently have a treatment does not make it untreatable. Arthas effectively hindered efforts to go looking for one.

Because, again, there was no time.

He had several hours to consider possibilities and alternatives. He just wasted them because he was to prideful to consider not arriving in time, despite that being his future job had he not abandoned his people.

You're nonsensically assuming that the entire planning would have to be done following the arrival of Jaina and Uther, when realistically, he should have been doing that from the moment he set out for Stratholme.

Arthas was incompetent as a Paladin and future monarch of Lordaeron.

I'm not sure where the urgency came from. Stratholme was easy to lock so the plague wouldn't get out. Of course, now we know that he happened to be right and there was no way to cure someone that has been turned, but that doesn't excuse him just deciding that was the case without knowledge.

One way or another the people would die, so what was the point of doing it quicker so that they didn't have a chance?

It didn't even turn out correct. Arthas actions were basically irrelevant, the city was wiped out and rose to undeath either way. Worst case scenario, he may actually have been the driving force behind it with the purge if the book's hints that the plague wasn't as widespread as he thought were confirmed.

All he achieved was driving people away from him.