WoW's LONGEST content drought incoming

[melodramocracy]

Take a look at Bellulars latest video where he breaks down the timelines. We will not be seeing fresh content for a very long time and the game is already incredibly stale and boring...

Last patch of MoP says what?

[TheRevenantHero]

And again I repeat:



Nowhere near the same thing, but go on with repeating the same wrong claims and fallacious arguments.

Nothing I've said is wrong. That's all you. they really are pretty much exactly the same thing. It's simply NOT content. Hilarious that you seemingly mocked people for saying "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong" only to do that exact same thing in your last post. If affixes are what's considered new content these days then that's pretty sad and show how plenty of people don't care how incredibly lazy Blizzard is.

[Ielenia]

Nothing I've said is wrong.

Actually, everything you said is wrong, because difficulty is not just "more HP and damage" like you claimed it is.

It's simply NOT content.

And here we go again, once more, for the one who ignores facts:

I said this before, and I'll say it again: none of you are arbiters of what "content" is or isn't. Some people do think different difficulties are content, whether you like it or not. Whether you accept it or not.

Hilarious that you seemingly mocked people for saying "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong" only to do that exact same thing in your last post.

Except I'm actually in the right, here: you are not the arbiter who decides what is content and what is not, and there are people who consider different difficulties to be content.

[Swnem]

I wouldn't be surprised if we are in for a long haul. Mostly because we are in the mist of one starting already. Specifically for an opening first content patch of an expansion. Covid sucks, it shut down a lot of things including the gaming industry, and they are just beginning to recover. Truth be told if they hadn't pre-sold the expansion and had some legal obligations (or start returning money) to release something by the turn of the year it probably would have been delayed further. But I don't see it going into month 14 for which it would take to break the record.

Now I don't think we should be happy about the delay of 9.1 by any means. But put the blame where it should be. Put it on covid fucking up the world. No, I am not saying we would have gotten a perfect expansion with perfectly timed releases, and everyone would be happy if covid didn't happen. But I am saying the reason that we probably aren't in 9.1 already or at the very least expecting its release here very shortly is because of covid and not because Ion and crew have been yachting for the past 3-4 months.

Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.

[razorpax]

Even if we compare 9.1 to 8.1.5 or 7.1.5 it’s late by two months if 9.1 comes in June, as I’ve already told you in another post. And we don’t even know if the raid in 9.1 launches directly with the patch, unlocks weeks later or comes in 9.1.5. So 7 months after Shadowlands launch is the most optimistic and positive way to view it (at this point it’s almost naive to be honest). Do you know what happened 7 months after Legion‘s release? 7.2 was released.

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Why are you talking about content of 9.1 when you say that 9.0 has been waaaaay bigger than any previous launch patch? The Maw is absolutely horrible compared to Suramar, has no storyline, has no quests and almost no fun attached to it. Suramar had a great storyline and two dungeons on top of that.

7.1 had a mega dungeon, something we‘ll get in 9.1 as well. A 3 boss raid is more than no raid overall (Nighthold came two months later in 7.1.5, which was a shorter timeframe than it will be from 9.0 to 9.1).

Even if you dislike Warfronts, they were there. Same with Island Expeditions. I hated them both with a passion, but that was all content of 8.0.

So I really don’t see any argument why 9.0 is a way bigger launch patch when in fact it isn’t. Playing an alt in Shadowlands is maybe a bit less dreadful than it was in BfA, but it’s still a pain. You do the same exact storyline in the same way, the only difference comes at max level with your Covenant choice. Hearing in Shadowlands via Mythic+ is horrible, having to do Torghast on all your alts is horrible and it’s the same with the Maw. Playing an alt in SL is not fantastic, it’s work work work.

7.1 had
Raid 3 bosses Which made it 10 bosses in all and it was considered overtuned due to the fact heroic odyn was as tough as mythic Xavius according to raiders at the time
Mega dungeon
Helheim quests
I think more leggos

I’m ok with 9.1 hitting in June (it won’t be July) because it’s more than that

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Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.

Wild fires caused some to evacuate to hotels

[Saltii]

"I am right and anyone who disagrees are wrong."

Literally what your posts boil down to.

Not to mention this idea that content has to be vastly different than the other content to be considered "content". What's different about Kara +3 and +5? Affixes.

I said this before, and I'll say it again: none of you are arbiters of what "content" is or isn't. Some people do think different difficulties are content, whether you like it or not. Whether you accept it or not.

You are literally doing THE SAME THING that you are telling us all off for. Everyone is telling you that they do not agree with you but you keep going. Saying that adding a few affixes constitutes new content is your opinion - but none of us agree with you. As someone once said in this thread a thousand times or so, you are not the arbiter of what "content" is or isn't.

[cparle87]

i played 1 month in bfa
and no we don't have '2 years', we have as usual up to 1st major patch, unless blizz don't introduce anything new this is current patch content, not current entire year content (also with that process, it may stay for a year)

You actually think Blizzard expects people to farm 200k+ anima in one patch to buy all the cosmetics before adding more in the second patch? Ok, pal. That's as ridiculous as the island expeditions vendor, which is why I brought it up. Not sure why you bothered to "humblebrag" that you only played 1/24th of last expansion, as if that doesn't reduce the value of your opinion stead of improving it as you seem to have thought it would.

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Now this is funny

I don't see infinite artifact power grinds, titanforging to entice running old content praying for a lotto win, spammable island expeditions for consumables consuming hundreds of hours, azerite gear, essences, or visions to run. That seems like a lot of systems cut.

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I said this before, and I'll say it again: none of you are arbiters of what "content" is or isn't. Some people do think different difficulties are content, whether you like it or not. Whether you accept it or not.

Reminds me of the guys in WoD who went "A, D, F, G, and X aren't content so it's proof WoD has less content that ever before." I likened it to going to the fridge, seeing it stuffed with things you're not in the mood for, and lying to people and saying it's empty.

[TheRevenantHero]

Actually, everything you said is wrong, because difficulty is not just "more HP and damage" like you claimed it is.


And here we go again, once more, for the one who ignores facts:




Except I'm actually in the right, here: you are not the arbiter who decides what is content and what is not, and there are people who consider different difficulties to be content.

No. you're wrong and, as usual, absolutely refuse to admit it. Affixes simply just aren't content. People can consider it content all they want but they'd be wrong. You're not in the right even remotely. But as usual, you place yourself up on a pedestal.

Adding a few adds, or adding more damage, or adding something that effects a small area isn't content. It's still the same dungeon with the same bosses. In what reality is that actually content? lmao.

[Kithelle]

You mean 9.0.x will break the Siege of Orgrimmar record of 13 months without new content?

Of course it will...because some Youtuber said so!

[TheRevenantHero]

You actually think Blizzard expects people to farm 200k+ anima in one patch to buy all the cosmetics before adding more in the second patch? Ok, pal. That's as ridiculous as the island expeditions vendor, which is why I brought it up. Not sure why you bothered to "humblebrag" that you only played 1/24th of last expansion, as if that doesn't reduce the value of your opinion stead of improving it as you seem to have thought it would.

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I don't see infinite artifact power grinds, titanforging to entice running old content praying for a lotto win, spammable island expeditions for consumables consuming hundreds of hours, azerite gear, essences, or visions to run. That seems like a lot of systems cut.

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Reminds me of the guys in WoD who went "A, D, F, G, and X aren't content so it's proof WoD has less content that ever before." I likened it to going to the fridge, seeing it stuffed with things you're not in the mood for, and lying to people and saying it's empty.

Except WoD actually did have barely any content. Aside from raiding, there really wasn't anything to do in the endgame. People would do their garrisons, maybe raid, then log.

[Wangming]

Wild fires caused some to evacuate to hotels

And most of us would be pretty understanding if at BlizzCon they took just five goddamn minutes from the constant nostalgia trips and prattle about community and told us that "Hey, due to Covid, wildfires and hurricanes we are massively behind schedule so expect 9.1 to come half a year later than usual. Don't worry we will still have 3 raid patches this expansion" Or something like that. But they didn't and now only have guesses, half truths and youtube conspiracy theories to tell us what people have subbed for.

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Except WoD actually did have barely any content. Aside from raiding, there really wasn't anything to do in the endgame. People would do their garrisons, maybe raid, then log.

Yep, WoD had very little to do outside of Garrisons. Same with SL and Torghast. Not everything is easy to quantify, but I made a list in this very thread a few pages back and not only are these two one of the least packed launches, Shadowlands has less content than WoD (if we count all the usual stuff like zones, races, classes, professions, dungeons, raids, arenas, battlegrounds).

[Nyel]

7.1 had Raid 3 bosses Which made it 10 bosses in all and it was considered overtuned due to the fact heroic odyn was as tough as mythic Xavius according to raiders at the time
Mega dungeon
Helheim quests
I think more leggos

I’m ok with 9.1 hitting in June (it won’t be July) because it’s more than that

The comparison with 7.1 really doesn't work for Shadowlands because 7.1 came 2 months after Legion's launch. You have to compare it to 7.1.5 which came 4.5 months after Legion's launch and brought Nighthold into the game, a very well received 10-boss raid. To be precise: 9.1 must be released next week to match the timeline of 7.1.5.

[crusadernero]

I can appriciate that, a vanillia vet myself, and honestly the charm of the game has been lost and mired in activision transactions over quality content, id say the downhill slope started showing its early signs of dangerous ideas when they started throwing in the WoD Era instant level 90 boost, even if MoP was basically an RNG nightmare it still had elements of what made Vanillia decent, but it was definatley the *Last* expansion that felt like a Vanillia experience, though id regard Wrath as the final expansion of the Vanillia Atmosphere.

What I mean by that to elaborate?

Wrath was the last expansion where talent tree's, the old way of pvp, the raiding scene, dungeons, pve content felt truly balanced out in an even handed way, where content wasnt just built around raid tiers. Cataclysm tried to avoid this but ended up introducing us to LFR at the end of its road aswell as bonus rolls and warforged, 3 of the worst mistakes blizz ever made.

However in MoP, id say they were fairly well rounded, bonus rolls added something rather than took something away, they were an addition not a requirement, there was still ways to earn gear via upgrading it with badges and other things you could do to keep up with the end game like reforging your stats.

Once they took all that out, WoW truly became a meandering experience of repetative farms, WoD was the first expansion raids became the primary focus and it shows, the quality dropped heavily and it sucked hard. They -tried- to fix it with Legion but it was too little too late, and Artifact grinds were a telltale sign of worse to come aswell as RNG legendaries.

BFA was the ultimate iteration of bad grind impliaments and Shadowlands took away some of the worst parts while doing very little if anything to better the game, ultimatley making it feel like a *less bad* BFA while still managing to somehow be lackluster over all.

Really my advice to blizz at this point would be:

Everything I suggested before *and*...

Please please *Please* get rid of Ion already, he was a good raid designer but he is a TERRIBLE director and its showing, since hes been in charge the quality of the game has dropped dramatically and its sad to watch it fall so low.

Also, please put Christie Golden back into the role of supporting writer, not lead writer. The BFA story was a mess and an absoleute lackluster story experience by the beginning-middle-and-end and its just sad to watch it go so down hill after Legion was so damn good.

The game has been chipped down over the years. Little by little, the game has changed. At times it was like we didnt even notice it. I cant really point to one xpac and say "this is were everything went wrong", cause theres so many things and decisions made by Blizzard that has brought us to were the game are now. I can agree on that alot changed after WotLK though, that xpac now feels like the "last" true wow experience xpac.

I'll keep playing wow when new content releases and for the time being I have alot of fun with classic, but my playstyle in retail will be like I imagine Blizzard wants it to be: Sub up, play a bit, unsub, return later. As I said, it more and more looks like Blizzard wants the playerbase to treat wow retail as a CoD game. With seasonal updated stuff(mounts, new content, affixes++) every 6+ months. For the players that enjoy staying in game for the long haul, it just gets more and more frustrating for each xpac & patch. It says something when I get more out of Classic than retail. I've been playing classic for a long time and even though im not getting showered in epics and all, I get something out of it almost every time I play.

They are also changing up how subs work and the bottom line there is they want people to sub for longer periods instead of month by month. Present a deal its hard to say no to(Great mount+6 month sub) and people stay subbed even if they dont play. With new mount every 6 month, wow token, pets, race/faction/server transfer and all that - they dont need people to have active subs for long period of times. Even though they are trying to lure people into doing it now.

Ion is probably a great raid designer and to be fair - He and Blizzard has always delivered on raids & dungeons. That content has never really been a problem.

All in all - I think this is a intented direction they are pushing with retail wow. For many the waittime inbetween patches/xpacs are long and frustrating but we always forget that when something new launches. Then we play and few months later we complain. rinse repeat and Blizzard still gets revenue breaking yearly records.

[TheRevenantHero]

And most of us would be pretty understanding if at BlizzCon they took just five goddamn minutes from the constant nostalgia trips and prattle about community and told us that "Hey, due to Covid, wildfires and hurricanes we are massively behind schedule so expect 9.1 to come half a year later than usual. Don't worry we will still have 3 raid patches this expansion" Or something like that. But they didn't and now only have guesses, half truths and youtube conspiracy theories to tell us what people have subbed for.

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Yep, WoD had very little to do outside of Garrisons. Same with SL and Torghast. Not everything is easy to quantify, but I made a list in this very thread a few pages back and not only are these two one of the least packed launches, Shadowlands has less content than WoD (if we count all the usual stuff like zones, races, classes, professions, dungeons, raids, arenas, battlegrounds).

I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.

[Logwyn]

I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.

Guild and playing with it only thing keeping me subbed at the moment.

[Wangming]

I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.

Well it combines what some people disliked about both. The scarce content, land long wait for patches from WoD (might even include the lack of 9.3). And taking a detour to a different dimension to do stuff that barely concerns MU Azeroth.

From BfA we have the borrrowed power BS, the nonsensical writing and the dumb resource grind for everything.

[Tiradon]

Guild and playing with it only thing keeping me subbed at the moment.

Same, only because I'm in a cool social environment in my guild. My friends already unsubbed...

[huth]

Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.

Like, say, a huge forest fire in California?

Dire is rather hyperbolic. The situation may not be perfect, but it's far from terrible or even really all that bad.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.

For sure. I am not here to say some companies handled it better than others. Obviously that's the case no matter the situation. I don't think anyone is suprised Blizzard would get hamstrung more by it. Staffing is pretty much in constant turn over. Most the Q and A department cut and I wouldn't doubt if devs are asked to double shift that too. Located in So Cal also was probably no help since it was hard hit and involved in some of the harshest shutdown orders. It also hit hard during SL peek dev time, lasted all the way though crunch, and eventually release. Then even post release and into the first patch.

So yeah, you got a point, obviously Blizzard could have done better. But its just Monday morning and we are all talking about how if I was quarterback I never would have toss that interuption Tom Brady threw. What was he thinking. Right... everyone's an expert when its the next day, they have seen the results, and can just say "well I would've" or "so and so did it better" sort of crap.

Its no excuse for them either. It's obviously a major problem. But they could just communicate a little and just let the tension out of the room. But they won't. Another day of silence might keep a few subs ticking a little longer. Because we know if it was good news they would be talking. Or at least that's how I feel about it at this point.

[Dracullus]

Like, say, a huge forest fire in California?

Dire is rather hyperbolic. The situation may not be perfect, but it's far from terrible or even really all that bad.

In less than month this community spiral themselves out of proportions and started to believe that Blizzard is in some panic mode. Kinda hard to talk with people that convinced themselves 9.1 is August/September/2022, we need PTR to make discussion little more sane.