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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    I'm sorry but if you think someone who boost to level 50! rn is gaining advantage on you, then I'm seriosly sorry for you. The level boost isn't a pay to win feature because in WoW in 2021 levelling in older expansions is not a relevant content nor does it effect the power of your character on max level. You don't gain advantage on others by skipping 10 hours of levelling.
    It should not be possible to buy ANY form of advantage from the shop. To suggest that a level boost is an insignificent advantage is self defeating since there are people think its worth paying money for it. It is also an advantage deemed banable by Blizzard should you obtain it via another means other than playing.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Except it's not wrong. you obviously don't know what pay to win means. People are literally paying $60 for an immediate boost in power, which is 100% a form of pay to win.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Boosting straight to max level of the previous expansion and jumping right into the new expansion is textbook pay to win. You are paying for character power through the game, which gives you an advantage over people who play the game and can't afford the level boost. P2W isn't just items. P2W is when you use real money to gain an advantage on players that's aren't dropping that $60. I'm starting to think a lot of people either don't know what P2W is or they will defend WoW no matter how god awful the game has become.
    If something like level boosts are over the line of what you consider unacceptable, the problem might be more with how you define P2W, rather than with the game. Levels are player power, yes, but you have to more fully consider the context. Read between the lines of your "textbook" on P2W.

    If you're paying for a level boost, then you're either one of two people. You've either already hit that level before, or you haven't. If you've already hit that level before on a different character, then you're not paying to win, because you've gained nothing material; you're hitting a level of character power that you yourself have already seen, been at, and have likely exceeded. You've only saved yourself time. If even that constitutes P2W, then you should stop and ask yourself why in particular someone else's time matters to you? It's not like it's line-cutting. Did them saving their own time somehow make you lose some of yours?

    On the other hand, if you haven't hit 50 before and buy a boost straight to that level, you still haven't won anything. You've lost the meaningful experience of leveling naturally, learning how to play organically, exploring, questing, etc. And the only way to gain that back is to go back and actually level and learn a character up to that point, at which point, you'll be left with a net gain of nothing. You'll only have gained back the novel experience you lost by skipping the levels you didn't do. (But who would do that? Would people really pay to boost their first character in an MMO to a higher level, instead of just... leveling and experiencing the game?)

    You have to actually gain something for it to be meaningfully P2W that's worth arguing about. Level boosts are either gaining nothing but time or needlessly giving yourself an IOU. That's not really an advantage over anything else but your own personal schedule. The bar has to be higher than this.
    Last edited by CalamityHeart; 2021-03-29 at 01:33 PM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I was about to write the same so this plus one and:

    "You don't even play raids/m+/high pvp, so you dont need that gear" - it seriously rustles my jimmies.

    This is how I lost all of my more casual friends in WoD, most of them never came back.
    Yes WOD was the expansion that a lot of casuals started moving over to FFXIV. Blizzard seem to be making that exact mistake in SL, I'm sure Square Enix are grateful but what the hell

  4. #164
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    It's not an argument that makes me mad, it makes me laugh:

    - Wow is dying/been dead since TBC threads
    - Blizzard is trying hard to kill Wow
    - Crying because people suck at the game/are washed up/got banned
    - Wow should go Free To Play because that worked on every other mmo

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    There have been plenty of characters who are outliers to their faction/race/class. Just none of them are player characters as of right now.
    So does this mean you finally agree it is not a lore issue, but gameplay design issue?

    At first you said it was lore issue. Then you said it was philosophy issue. Now it seems you agree its none of those and just a simple game development choice to not let all races be all classes.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  6. #166
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    It should not be possible to buy ANY form of advantage from the shop. To suggest that a level boost is an insignificent advantage is self defeating since there are people think its worth paying money for it. It is also an advantage deemed banable by Blizzard should you obtain it via another means other than playing.
    When the boost came i was in a competitive rated bg guild back in mop/wod. Those people literall only logged on to que rbgs, this is what they enjoyed and this is what they had time for. We weren't kids or university students. We had 8-11hours jobs already back then. The boost made it actually possible for us to play an alt since we didn't have time for levelling. This made us further enjoyment possible but we really didn't gain any advantage. If you could boost some character into gladiator gear, now thats p2w etc. This is hardly at the border of p2w things.

  7. #167
    Saying we cant have flying at max level because of immersion. In an MMO. With repeatable everything. Pisses me off to no end.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    It should not be possible to buy ANY form of advantage from the shop. To suggest that a level boost is an insignificent advantage is self defeating since there are people think its worth paying money for it. It is also an advantage deemed banable by Blizzard should you obtain it via another means other than playing.
    It's not an advantage though, is it? When you hit cap, you are at a baseline for endgame content.

    At level 59, you aren't put at a disadvantage when it comes to endgame activities because you literally aren't able to participate in them. Players below cap are as much at a disadvantage when it comes to participating in endgame content as I am when it comes to competing in the Grand Prix.

    You're really stretching the definition of 'advantage' top the point of total prolapse here.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTherapist View Post
    and



    Dont you contradict yourself here? Or my mistake?
    Well, the first is a complaint about the game, and the second is a put-down on a player, so while worded similarly, they're quite different.

  10. #170
    "it's not world of PEACEcraft!" To justify the never ending, never resolved, faction plot.

  11. #171
    wow is not dead


    i mean technically its not, but compartively, it is

  12. #172
    When ppl cannot comprehend you cannot design a single player game that gives you content for two years in the span of two years. It has to be repeatable, it has to have grinds and it relies on making things less boring by playing with or against someone. It is not a single player game and it will never be a single player game. And it IS a game, not a lifestyle.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    ''Classic WoW is not going to happen / it will never be popular / it will be dead / it will die out in X amount of time / you only like it because of nostalgia''- Its not as much of a thing these days considering all the successes that Classic WoW had, but there are still a few left who are still this ignorant. The game had its natural decline with every gaming launch but it has never shown any sign of it being close to dead and it remains very profitable for Blizzard. Sorry for the retail fanboys but J Allen Brack was wrong with this one, we think we do and we indeed do.
    Completely agree. My biggest gripe is when people say "You just like it cuz nostalgia" No. I really do enjoy the aspect of the game where more things matter - leveling, professions, knowing your class and deciding on its build, flavorful things like creating poisons and feeding/maintaining pets, etc. Everything makes me feel a little more invested in moment to moment interactions with the game world that weren't just "be max level, get stronk loot". I honestly welcome anything pre-Cata because that's when I remember logging in and just thinking "WTF happened" when playing for the first time.

    J Allen Brack was wrong. To his credit though, a lot of the people interviewing devs and stuff at the Blizzcon when Classic was announced said that JAB was one of the people leading the charge on it and that he'd seen the light after witnessing the backlash against his sentiments. I'd believe it after seeing all the info that's come out about him from other devs on his time with Star Wars Galaxies - he left for WoW because he was one of the people fighting against how that game got ruined by SOE.

  14. #174
    if you don't raid you don't need/deserve good gear
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  15. #175
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    Bitching at casual and/or solo players as though their enjoyment of the game directly depletes the supply of joy available to group content players.

    Bonus stupidity points for when the hate is unsolicited. IE: Thread has eff all to do with it, but they just can't help themselves; they need to whine about them so they hijack the thread. Want to discuss potions? THE CASUALS! Have an opinion on the lore? DAMN SOLOIST DEVILS! Have a suggestion for a tv show? CASUALS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS! *ahem*


    NOTE: I separate casual and solo players because they're *gasp* different things.


    To a lesser extent: people who assume said casuals/solo players believe they "deserve" anything. Sure, some think that way, and they sound just as dumb.
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2021-03-29 at 03:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  16. #176
    if you dont do certain content that you should still be able to have access to the gear from that content

  17. #177
    That a luck (rng) means you deserve/earn something.
    Thank god for pvp vendors.

    Also i am ever (but a lot less intensely) annoyed at people that can't see beyond the shortsighted "deserved"/"earned"/"achieved" mindset and realise that grossly inequal chances at victory in pvp especially (whether through stagnant gear or poor balance) reduces participation. And when participation drops less resources will go towards it, wait times become longer, enemies less varied; in short it starts to suck a lot more.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    if you dont do certain content that you should still be able to have access to the gear from that content
    This. If you do 100% faceroll easy content, you can't expect to earn 226. You get 1 235 lego, 197 cov / honor gear, 207 world boss loot if lucky, and 203 gear from callings. That is more than enough to handle world content and more than enough to get started with higher difficulties. If you choose to stop there, don't complain that your progression stops there too.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    This. If you do 100% faceroll easy content, you can't expect to earn 226. You get 1 235 lego, 197 cov / honor gear, 207 world boss loot if lucky, and 203 gear from callings. That is more than enough to handle world content and more than enough to get started with higher difficulties. If you choose to stop there, don't complain that your progression stops there too.
    It's not necessarily iLvl people are demanding to have but gear progression. I think it's kinda shitty to give one group of players gear progression that lasts months and another group of players gear progression that lasts two weeks. The iLvls could be miles apart for all I care but everyone should have something to work towards regardless of what level they play the game.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    It's not necessarily iLvl people are demanding to have but gear progression. I think it's kinda shitty to give one group of players gear progression that lasts months and another group of players gear progression that lasts two weeks. The iLvls could be miles apart for all I care but everyone should have something to work towards regardless of what level they play the game.
    Every player has the same gear progression. its either do harder content or get higher rating. If you only want to do normal CN then you will reach your goal much faster because its much easier. Harder content is more challenging and thus has better rewards. If you dont want to do the hard stuff, i dont think you should be able to get the gear from the hard stuff.

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