Poll: Increased raid difficulty in TBC Classic

[keelr]

Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.

[Echo of Soul]

No, don't turn the game into something it never was.

[Fitsu]

I think it's a bad idea because there's so many akward ways to min-max in TBC (Like having a Shaman in each group for bloodlust etc.) so by tuning the raids to be harder all your doing is pushing people into these specific and uninteresting raid comps/strats

[kranur]

No ... buffing hp and damage in raids to try to cater to the 2% who have played private servers for the last 10 years will not equal a huge success, it will just be a mess and just force specific comps with barley any freedom and it's just not what it was or what it should be.

I've seen what these private servers did and how it ended up ... shit like making Morogrim's adds have 3 times more hp because guilds might run many locks and mages which in turn made it a requirement for everyone to run a lot of mages and warlocks to be able to clear.

[Kralljin]

Pre nerf bosses is enough for me.

Artificially increasing the difficulty should be reserved when perhaps a 2nd wave of Classic / TBC servers roll around and bosses, despite their pre nerf status, still were a total joke with <30sec kill times.

And i still think there is a line of difference between the community enforcing a certain Meta and the game itself due to its difficulty enforcing a Meta.

[Zyky]

Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.

Private servers aren't much of a success, they maintain players for a month before they get bored because there isn't enough of a playerbase to support multiple raid groups.

[Kralljin]

Private servers aren't much of a success, they maintain players for a month before they get bored because there isn't enough of a playerbase to support multiple raid groups.

A very simplistic analysis, there are multiple reasons why certain private servers fail.

1. They shut down, whether due to legal stuff with Blizzard or because of payment disputes behind the scenes
2. They're bugged as hell, after all, private servers need to do their own coding
3. They become P2W, cashshops are extremely common among private servers, when you add actual items to the shop, it can quite often sink the server, they also need to deal with goldbuyers, which has the potential of the admin staff becoming corrupt
4. A new "fresh" private server launches, so all the disgruntled people leave your server or are just looking for the fresh experience

Private servers cannot as openly promote their servers, which obviously cuts down the number of players that might join in.

[Atherions]

If they buff the raids they also have to rebalance classes so you are not forced to bring FOTM classes to clear the raid. If you want harder raids start by nerfing top performing specs

[Nite92]

Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.

Huge success for "hardcore" players. TBC is already quite a bit harder.

Why would you make it harder? If you want a challenge dont play a 13 year old game that has already been solved to a pretty high degree, raiding mythic would be the way to go.

[keelr]

No ... buffing hp and damage in raids to try to cater to the 2% who have played private servers for the last 10 years will not equal a huge success, it will just be a mess and just force specific comps with barley any freedom and it's just not what it was or what it should be.

I've seen what these private servers did and how it ended up ... shit like making Morogrim's adds have 3 times more hp because guilds might run many locks and mages which in turn made it a requirement for everyone to run a lot of mages and warlocks to be able to clear.

I've never got an invite as Balance druid in Classic even tho i had bislist gear. Its not catering to an elite or an eliter private server community. It's literally making raids more fun. It won't enforce extra raid compositions since 99% of the groups will be created to according to a pattern and this isn't up for a debate. We could see it in Classic wow.

[stevenho]

No point discussing it because it won't happen.

[kranur]

I've never got an invite as Balance druid in Classic even tho i had bislist gear. Its not catering to an elite or an eliter private server community. It's literally making raids more fun. It won't enforce extra raid compositions since 99% of the groups will be created to according to a pattern and this isn't up for a debate. We could see it in Classic wow.

How does you attempting to play the worst performing spec in classic have any relevance to whether tbc should be artificially buffed or not? And by worst performing I don't mean that it performs a bit less than others (as will be in most cases in tbc), it performs a lot less than others.

And that is not the case with the group pattern. The more you enforce requirements by just buffing numbers, the more you will require specific specs to be in.

[keelr]

How does you attempting to play the worst performing spec in classic have any relevance to whether tbc should be artificially buffed or not? And by worst performing I don't mean that it performs a bit less than others (as will be in most cases in tbc), it performs a lot less than others.

And that is not the case with the group pattern. The more you enforce requirements by just buffing numbers, the more you will require specific specs to be in.

Doesn't matter how bad performing it was, it was still way more than enough, ppl didn't want it, they stacked as many warriors,rogues and mages as possible even for molten core. Doesnt matter what you imagine, this is 2021, people have a different mindset. Delusional ppl gave us classic with no changes.

[Atherions]

Doesn't matter how bad performing it was, it was still way more than enough, ppl didn't want it, they stacked as many warriors,rogues and mages as possible even for molten core. Doesnt matter what you imagine, this is 2021, people have a different mindset. Delusional ppl gave us classic with no changes.

My raiding team had both ret paladins and boomkin druids throughout classic and we cleared naxx the second week. This would not have happened if the raids were harder

[kranur]

Doesn't matter how bad performing it was, it was still way more than enough, ppl didn't want it, they stacked as many warriors,rogues and mages as possible even for molten core. Doesnt matter what you imagine, this is 2021, people have a different mindset. Delusional ppl gave us classic with no changes.

So given the fact that you were disconsidered a lot as an option in classic, you would want to make this be a thing in tbc too? Cause that's exactly what will happen. Sure a small number of groups will do it anyway bu the majority won't because there's not an absolute need for it.

You think that if classic was overtuned you would have had more success as balance? It would have been a lot worse.

And I have a feeling that your experience is based a lot on a small number of groups. My guild for example is and has always been running with the same numbet of warlocks as mages, sometimes there are even more locks than mages in a group. We also run with shadow priest and enhancement. Do you think these would have still had a spot is dps requirements were a lot tighter?

[keelr]

So given the fact that you were disconsidered a lot as an option in classic, you would want to make this be a thing in tbc too? Cause that's exactly what will happen.

You think that if classic was overtuned you would have had more success as balance? It would have been a lot worse.

And I have a feeling that your experience is based a lot on a small number of groups. My guild for example is and has always been running with the same numbet of warlocks as mages, sometimes there are even more locks than mages in a group. We also run with shadow priest and enhancement. Do you think these would have still had a spot is dps requirements were a lot tighter?

First, i just brougth that as an example to what raids in classic will look like, even in tbc.

Second, no i wouldnt have had more luck as balance and thats my entire point here: it doesn't matter how hard the content is, people will play an optimal raid composition. TBC content creaters on yt posted a lot of videos about it already in the past months, it shows how much it moves ppl.

My experience is based on an entire EU server community.

[kranur]

First, i just brougth that as an example to what raids in classic will look like, even in tbc.

Second, no i wouldnt have had more luck as balance and thats my entire point here: it doesn't matter how hard the content is, people will play an optimal raid composition. TBC content creaters on yt posted a lot of videos about it already in the past months, it shows how much it moves ppl.

My experience is based on an entire EU server community.

Again I tell you. SOME people will, some will not. If you overtune it, you force the people that wouldn't do it, to have no choice.

[erifwodahs]

Sure a small number of groups will do it anyway bu the majority won't because there's not an absolute need for it.
?

There was no need to do it in classic. Like literally absolutely no need to min max to that extent. But people did. It will never be easier than Classic raids besides Classic WotLK Naxx, and if people min-maxed and excluded specs in Classic, you can imagine what will happen in harder expansions. As long as there are enough players playing meta specs to cover the raids and dungeons, there will be non-meta specs excluded.

[Bigbazz]

Buffed boss thing aint all that, Classic has been a massive success and it's effectively just easymode version of already easymode game. TBC should be at most pre-nerf difficulty, not the private server "damage sponge" tuning. It doesn't make the game better, the worst bosses on retail are the ones that go on for an eternity with nothing going on.

[Azadina]

Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.

Step 1; Laugh at classic being lfr easy
Step 2; Do everything humanly possible to further trivialize said content (minmax buff galore, class stacking, etc), no matter how sweaty nerd process it is
Step 3; Rage how easy and boring the content is and how it's a disaster
= gg

I swear some peoples logic circuits are not functioning.