1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[Frozenbro]

i do care! it is pretty funny that an average player (heroic raider/M15) wants to setup teams like they are Mythic raiders,MDI players. Guys every single specc can do +15 without any problem if they properly play their spec and if they can show you their a decent rio its its more than enough to play...

there should be achievements/titles to play with least represented specs/low tier specs in pve,pvp... then you can actually see a formidable player from afar.

Or the leader can pick a better player on paper, you arent the only 1 in the queue and chances are there are better people than you in the queue, shocking i know, some people still believe being declined is personal, hilarious.

[Alexplode]

i can setup teams pretty quickly in LFG (as Disc/holy) and as a team leader i have experienced very poor gameplay, toxic players from "better players on paper" and having more options/specs to play with makes it so much flexible. i forgot where i was going with this... wouldn't be cool if we had M+ matchmaking system teams you up with random classes based on skill? you know tank/healer 3 dps trying to balance it between difference ranged, melee/specs.

[Ange]

there should be achievements/titles to play with least represented specs/low tier specs in pve,pvp... then you can actually see a formidable player from afar.

FoS: "Grats on not beeing a FOTM monkey!"

I really miss character restricted achievements in general, you could tell much faster the reroll crowd and just ignore them for PUGs.

[neescher]

i can setup teams pretty quickly in LFG (as Disc/holy) and as a team leader i have experienced very poor gameplay, toxic players from "better players on paper" and having more options/specs to play with makes it so much flexible.

Are you saying that all "better players on paper" are toxic and have very poor gameplay?

Or are you magically supposed to know which ones are and which ones aren't, before you invite?

wouldn't be cool if we had M+ matchmaking system teams you up with random classes based on skill? you know tank/healer 3 dps trying to balance it between difference ranged, melee/specs.

For low m+ keys? Sure why not. For higher keys? No thanks, I have no intention of doing a high m+ key with a setup I have no control over. Going with a bad group setup is ok if I'm running with my guild where everyone is in voice chat, and I know we can compensate for the fact we have no combat res, or no synergies whatsoever. I have no intention of doing that in a pug...

[chiddie]

Are you saying that all "better players on paper" are toxic and have very poor gameplay?

Or are you magically supposed to know which ones are and which ones aren't, before you invite?



For low m+ keys? Sure why not. For higher keys? No thanks, I have no intention of doing a high m+ key with a setup I have no control over. Going with a bad group setup is ok if I'm running with my guild where everyone is in voice chat, and I know we can compensate for the fact we have no combat res, or no synergies whatsoever. I have no intention of doing that in a pug...

The mm system would be an addition to the actual manual system I would say.

[neescher]

The mm system would be an addition to the actual manual system I would say.

But what would that change? No tank or healer in their right mind would use that, when they can get instant invites to "real" groups, where they can check out their potential teammates in advance?

[Barzotti]

i do care! it is pretty funny that an average player (heroic raider/M15) wants to setup teams like they are Mythic raiders,MDI players. Guys every single specc can do +15 without any problem if they properly play their spec and if they can show you their a decent rio its its more than enough to play...

there should be achievements/titles to play with least represented specs/low tier specs in pve,pvp... then you can actually see a formidable player from afar.

If you are running your own key at a rewarding level (+14/+15), you'll be picky. There are so many applicants that you want to have the highest chances of success. That doesn't mean low represented classes aren't capable of timing keys. Every spec and every setup can time +15s. No one disputed that. But if I have a choice between a BM hunter and a fire mage with the same credentials, I'll take the fire mage every time. If I can choose between a ranged and a melee, I'll take the ranged. I'll take the best possible setup (BL, brez, cc) because I can afford to take the best possible setup and I want to increase the odds of success.

And there's nothing especially commendable about playing low represented specs considering the difference between the top performing and the worse classes is relatively small. You won't get a special badge because hurr durr you're so good because you're playing demo lock or holy priest in M+. I'd even trust a Fotm reroller more than a one trick, because the Fotm reroller has proven he's willing to learn multiple specs and isn't stubborn.

[chiddie]

But what would that change? No tank or healer in their right mind would use that, when they can get instant invites to "real" groups, where they can check out their potential teammates in advance?

The advantage is that you can do other stuff while in queue while today you have to wander LFG without being able to do anything else.

Same advantage you had back then when you could queue bgs from everywhere instead of jumping outside of AV entrance forever.

[Frozenbro]

wouldn't be cool if we had M+ matchmaking system teams you up with random classes based on skill? you know tank/healer 3 dps trying to balance it between difference ranged, melee/specs.

Would be funny to see this considering how many keys get carried by the difference in dps and player skill, the amount of depleted keys thanks to all the awful dps grouping together thanks to the system would be great, you know, those dps that feel that are doing a good job by pulling shitty 4-5k overalls xd

[chiddie]

Would be funny to see this considering how many keys get carried by the difference in dps and player skill, the amount of depleted keys thanks to all the awful dps grouping together thanks to the system would be great, you know, those dps that feel that are doing a good job by pulling shitty 4-5k overalls xd

Oh, actually if I see a 4.5/5k dps in my 12-13 attempts I usually cry of joy, generally in pug they are all around 3.5/4K max XD.

[neescher]

The advantage is that you can do other stuff while in queue while today you have to wander LFG without being able to do anything else.

Same advantage you had back then when you could queue bgs from everywhere instead of jumping outside of AV entrance forever.

The big difference is, no tank or healer would ever queue up for that. They can just choose any group they want without waiting time anyway, so how would this help anyone? DPS players would probably just sit in queues for hours without finding groups.

[kiramon]

/cry
in feral druid

Its okay queue as balance and switch right before you enter. Since you run Balance affinity stand around in moonkin until the yellow bubble starts.

Fire mage is not the only spec to have that burst (hint, it is also a mage spec) and usually you get better players overall on off meta class, especially at high rio.

I KNEW IT.

100% why it's easier to get invites on my Mistweaver at my RIO than on my other healers. YOU CANT SUCK AND GET HIGH IO ON CRAP CLASSES.
loljk

[kamuimac]

Since I pugged all the way to my crappy 1000 rio and I often fail pug runs and I hate being carried, “how did I do?” was my first question after both runs.

They all said I was absolutely ok. Little mistakes here and there, areas in which I can improve, but nothing that risked to derail both runs.

I tend to believe them, I’m in the guild since one month or so and they don’t know me, also one of the dps mained a 1800 resto shaman and told me “dude just trust me if you would have been crap I would have told you without any issue”.

Now, this does not mean I’m a pro by ANY meaning, I still make my mistakes and I always recognize them but when you are astonished by your party taking no damage while doing a lot of it and their answer is “dude that’s how it’s supposed to be” I cannot avoid thinking that almost always the issues for my failed runs lie elsewhere.

When you disband a SoA 13 at third boss and 30 minutes later you time a SoA 13 with a more or less identical rio group, questions rises.

Also, not to pretend healer’s role is more difficult or so, but even if group is good, if healer is bad you won’t time the key. You can workaround one crappy dps or a slightly below average tank, supposing he does not constantly mispull, but you can’t do it if the healer is not consistent. You simply need heals and dispels and interrupts, at least at bosses and prides. Even if you overgear the dungeon by a mile, you can’t time a key without an at least decent healer (talking about 10+ keys of course).

Yesterday I ran a HoA 13, we didn’t time it because wipe at Echelon, in second try we did the last 30% of him in 3 people without any pride or lust. Nothing exceptional, I agree, but we couldn’t have made it with the healer (me) dead.

TLDR: I’m not exceptional but many ppl out there are just too far below average. I mean, I can agree that dps comes with gear, but not taking damage has very little to spare with gear. Until people are obsessed with damage meters and don’t understand that a dodging but alive dps makes more dps than a dead dps, nothing will change. In the recent past i also died a lot because I tried to heal even if I would have better dodged or moved. Then one time a tank understood what I was trying to do and told me “dude, always remember that a living healer is better than a dead healer, even if saving yourself means letting a dps die, please save yourself and let him die, better spend 10 seconds for a ress after the pull than 1 minute in wiping plus coming back here”.

you just described the collosal difference between coordingated very experienced group and majority of playerbase.

dont get me wrong because i agree with you 100% about "thats how it should look like in current iteration of hardmodes " - but majorty of playerbase does not play this way .

now a huge problem arises. blizzard has 2 groups - 1 enormous - majority of playerbase who "play like shit" and tiny minority of people who play like you experienced.

you cannot have a good healthy game if you cater it only to latter group

thats the cardinal sin of SL and modern wow - its catering content only to tiny minority .

and thats why its such a collosal failure of a game which already lost 60 % of players.

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Would be funny to see this considering how many keys get carried by the difference in dps and player skill, the amount of depleted keys thanks to all the awful dps grouping together thanks to the system would be great, you know, those dps that feel that are doing a good job by pulling shitty 4-5k overalls xd

4/5k overall is more then enough to smoothly clear 12/13. as long as you do mechanics.

what you are looking for is people doing 6/7k overall which lets you bypass mechanics and cover most of fuck ups.

ie. you are looking for a carry and you are dissapointed you dont find it in pugs.

in general what most are looking for is enough dps to burst stuff down before mechanics happens.

thats why they only want 226+ in their 14/15s . because only this allows for it to happen .

its shame people in wow dont have balls to admit they just want to be carried and turn +14 into lfr mode.

[Zoura]

you just described the collosal difference between coordingated very experienced group and majority of playerbase.

dont get me wrong because i agree with you 100% about "thats how it should look like in current iteration of hardmodes " - but majorty of playerbase does not play this way .

now a huge problem arises. blizzard has 2 groups - 1 enormous - majority of playerbase who "play like shit" and tiny minority of people who play like you experienced.

you cannot have a good healthy game if you cater it only to latter group

thats the cardinal sin of SL and modern wow - its catering content only to tiny minority .

and thats why its such a collosal failure of a game which already lost 60 % of players.

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4/5k overall is more then enough to smoothly clear 12/13. as long as you do mechanics.

what you are looking for is people doing 6/7k overall which lets you bypass mechanics and cover most of fuck ups.

ie. you are looking for a carry and you are dissapointed you dont find it in pugs.

in general what most are looking for is enough dps to burst stuff down before mechanics happens.

thats why they only want 226+ in their 14/15s . because only this allows for it to happen .

its shame people in wow dont have balls to admit they just want to be carried and turn +14 into lfr mode.

5k overall is fine for 15s. 5-5.5k

[neescher]

thats the cardinal sin of SL and modern wow - its catering content only to tiny minority .

It's not "only" though. There's tons of content for everyone, even players who "play like shit" as you put it. People who "play like shit" can easily play any normal/heroic/mythic dungeons, even low m+ keys, even if it might not be in time. They can play LFR and at least the first two thirds of normal Nathria. They can play PVP, they can play covenant campaigns, world quests, the can level alts.

But there's ALSO content for "better" (I don't really like to categorize players in "bad" and "good", but let's go with it for now) players like higher m+ keys and heroic/mythic raids.

Your argument basically is "there's some content that not everyone complete, so wow is catering content only to the minority who can complete the hardest content", which is just plain wrong.

You're saying "wow is catering content only to a tiny minority", but what you really mean is "I don't want that tiny minority to have any content at all, because it would be unfair to the majority if there is content they can't complete".

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thats why they only want 226+ in their 14/15s . because only this allows for it to happen .

its shame people in wow dont have balls to admit they just want to be carried and turn +14 into lfr mode.

Aaaaand again. It's not about "only wanting 226+ in their keys". It's about having the choice of 20 dps players with ilvl 210, and 20 dps players with 225. Which one are you inviting to your group? When you see a 210 and a 225 apply for the same position, do you think "well 210 is enough to finish this 15 in time, so obviously I'm inviting the 210 over the 225"?

[kiramon]

Aaaaand again. It's not about "only wanting 226+ in their keys". It's about having the choice of 20 dps players with ilvl 210, and 20 dps players with 225. Which one are you inviting to your group? When you see a 210 and a 225 apply for the same position, do you think "well 210 is enough to finish this 15 in time, so obviously I'm inviting the 210 over the 225"?

Well, it kinda is. If someone is saying that sub-7k/8k overall is crap players, but only 225+ can regularly hit that, well...

Anyways, a lot of 225s doing 15s pull really bad overall, especially on tyrannical. In fact, I'm convinced that people are so used to just MYAOEDMGISGUD that they completely forego doing any thinking/single target, resulting in extra long prides and bosses, ultimately lowering their overall dps to the 5.5k and below. Which is fine if all your dps are doing 5.5k, not so fine if you have one 5.5k and some 3.1k people, even at 225. Shadow priest is a horrible offender here -- many shadow priests going into SOA with SN builds and pulling a whole 3.1k at 220+...

[neescher]

Well, it kinda is. If someone is saying that sub-7k/8k overall is crap players, but only 225+ can regularly hit that, well...

Anyways, a lot of 225s doing 15s pull really bad overall, especially on tyrannical. In fact, I'm convinced that people are so used to just MYAOEDMGISGUD that they completely forego doing any thinking/single target, resulting in extra long prides and bosses, ultimately lowering their overall dps to the 5.5k and below. Which is fine if all your dps are doing 5.5k, not so fine if you have one 5.5k and some 3.1k people, even at 225. Shadow priest is a horrible offender here -- many shadow priests going into SOA with SN builds and pulling a whole 3.1k at 220+...

Yes, but how is all of what you just wrote an argument that you invite the 210 over the 225?

[kiramon]

Yes, but how is all of what you just wrote an argument that you invite the 210 over the 225?

It's not. But you can't say you don't only want 225+ if you only want 225+.

[neescher]

It's not. But you can't say you don't only want 225+ if you only want 225+.

Why don't you answer the question? You have an open dps position in your group, and both a 210 and 225 apply for the spot. Assume the same class/spec. Which one do you invite?

[Asrialol]

Would be funny to see this considering how many keys get carried by the difference in dps and player skill, the amount of depleted keys thanks to all the awful dps grouping together thanks to the system would be great, you know, those dps that feel that are doing a good job by pulling shitty 4-5k overalls xd

I can do 9-10k overall in a HoA quite easily, then the next run barely breaking 5k. All depends on the tank and his pulls.

You can easily time all 15s with small pulls and 4-5k overall dps. Won't be much of an issue until you start doing +18s.

Not to mention the dps people who often think themselves good players with their decent overall dps, yet ignore their lack of interrupts and all the avoidable damage they took. Good luck in high keys with such gameplay lmao.

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Why don't you answer the question? You have an open dps position in your group, and both a 210 and 225 apply for the spot. Assume the same class/spec. Which one do you invite?

If it was me, the 210 one.