If 9.1 Bombs...

[CaptainV]

Except that BFA was universally disliked, WoD aswell and even Cata was fairly divisive.

As for Shadowlands? Its evidently a victim of mmo fatigue, people are tired of wow 1, and theres only so many wow 1 expansions/content updates you can make to keep interest, I legit think the arguments of "But muh achievements/mounts/armor/races" is a weak one now, most people would -rather- have a new wow than a new expansion.

[Yriel]

Going by what GC championed, one can guess that he's just not a fan of designing the game around people that have no intention of improving themselves and throw the towel at the slightest whiff of a challenge.

Yes because this is a game, not a job.
If i don't enjoy an activity i don't do it in a game. I have a steam backlog of over a hundred games. Why should i "rise to the occasion" by doing content that is not enjoyable, i'd rather play something else.
I never understood the "i hate this content but you get nice loot for it" people, it's so absurd in a video game.

[Kralljin]

Yes because this is a game, not a job.
If i don't enjoy an activity i don't do it in a game. I have a steam backlog of over a hundred games. Why should i "rise to the occasion" by doing content that is not enjoyable, i'd rather play something else.
I never understood the "i hate this content but you get nice loot for it" people, it's so absurd in a video game.

I think you're throwing two different mindsets into the same pot.

What i'm referring to is the concept that some players reject the concept of improving themselves on a general basis, such as the Cata heroics, when they failed in there because whatever reasons, some people didn't see this as an incentive to improve themselves, but started to boycott the content.

What you seem to referring to is the concept that some players engage in content despite not liking it for rewards.
To which i can give you a simple explanation: Because it progresses their character and character progression is fun to a lot of people and frankly the core of pillar of this game.

[hc7]

Currently LOLing @ the people confidently stating they think 9.1 wont bomb and will actually be good. And what is that based on again? All theyve released is a very rough framework and idea of what they intend on doing...theyre so far behind they literally dont even have anything substantial to present us, and theres absolutely no indications it will be good. Not to mention it wont have to be merely "good" it will have to be one of the best patches theyve released in a good while, it has to massively overdeliver, and even if it does I doubt it will bring back the droves of players that will have left by the time it releases. I have extremely low expectations for the rest of SL, and part of that has to do with the fact the game will still be run by Ion H and his team of morons, its evident that his ideas are awful and the sooner he and his buddies are no longer on the dev team, the sooner the game will get better. I think well seriously be looking at some of the lowest retail numbers weve ever seen by the end of SL, worse than BFA, worse than WoD unless something changes. Mark my words.

[unbound]

I think the most correct answer is not listed in the poll.

I don't know that the WoW team is in the need of a serious overhaul of talent as much as it is resource constrained. I don't know that if they had better funding that they would be any better either.

What I do know, and it was easier to see in older financial records when WoW had separate lines in those financials, is that Blizz management has been consistently cutting funding of the development team year after year.

People need to understand that Blizz could triple the spending on the WoW development, and WoW would still be incredibly profitable. The typical corporate behavior of cutting costs at every opportunity affects game companies as much as in any other industry.

[Tiradon]

I think the most correct answer is not listed in the poll.

I don't know that the WoW team is in the need of a serious overhaul of talent as much as it is resource constrained. I don't know that if they had better funding that they would be any better either.

What I do know, and it was easier to see in older financial records when WoW had separate lines in those financials, is that Blizz management has been consistently cutting funding of the development team year after year.

People need to understand that Blizz could triple the spending on the WoW development, and WoW would still be incredibly profitable. The typical corporate behavior of cutting costs at every opportunity affects game companies as much as in any other industry.

Well with 9.0.5 we just saw hew a mess the code is . Heck it's full of dependancies when they touch something they ruin something else. Whole game needs a huge revamp. Really wish they cleaned up the bloody pipelines.

9.0.5 daily hot fixes were ridiculous.

[Electric Lighter]

And the fear came about because people min maxed to death the game and started demanding things like the unlimited grinds we had in legion and bfa. For ways to have continuous power boosting non stop outside of raids.

For me SL looks more like blizzard saying "First you said you wanted it, now you don't. Fine we'll give you what you've been crying for. Less loot, no grind. Wait now this makes you unhappy too?"

Did they?

I will be blunt not only have I never seen this happen at the high end. I've never actually heard of it occuring. Usually the crowd that demands these grinds are the ones that are gone the second lfr fully opens. Mythic players and I use the term for those who push dungeons far past a 15 and full clear mythic are not demanding grinds... they happily sell carries or roll alts once progression is done.

I've never actually seen ce players or high mythic+ players hint at what your saying... I don't want to say your making it up but where are you getting this insight from?

[Feral Druid ist Op]

probably the ones actually playing the game.

So,none of the above

true, the only real player base are we, the <50 raider, we paying for 2-3 acounts (some even more) and didnt unsub for 15+ years

[dcc626]

Just for the sake of argument. Yes, if it bombs, changes have to be made. That's just common sense. But that is a big if. I think 9.1 will be a pretty good patch when it arrives. But the longer it takes, the worse things will get.

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Not Brack? Or Kotick?

didnt you know? everything is solely watchers fault

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Considering all the information we know like Towelliee's Blizzard contact being worried about 9.1 and Bellular's quoted metrics of 60% of the playerbase leaving since SL launch, do you think WoW will require drastic change if 9.1 fails to deliver? Maybe it won't be evident immediately, but a couple months into 9.1 and players start leaving in droves again and the forums are aflame with the usual, unaddressed complaints?

Do you then think it is time for drastic action? I mean, from what we know, internally they are already in panic mode...

considering the fact that all we have is "towellies contact" i wouldnt rush to believe anything right now.

ihes got a 50/50 chance i guess.

[Alanar]

And the fear came about because people min maxed to death the game and started demanding things like the unlimited grinds we had in legion and bfa. For ways to have continuous power boosting non stop outside of raids.

For me SL looks more like blizzard saying "First you said you wanted it, now you don't. Fine we'll give you what you've been crying for. Less loot, no grind. Wait now this makes you unhappy too?"

Then makes you wonder to who they listen nowadays.
I mean you see what happened to arena. WE DONT WANT DAMPEN GAMES. Instead we want one shots. Well tha ks 2300 rated people for awesome feedback. Arena has never been this much fun /sarcasme off.

Its all on us? I never saw that feedback, but what ever its to late now anyway.

[Osmeric]

Except that BFA was universally disliked,

This is not the case.

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Currently LOLing @ the people confidently stating they think 9.1 wont bomb and will actually be good. And what is that based on again?

Well, wishful thinking is a kind of thinking.

[Electric Lighter]

Then makes you wonder to who they listen nowadays.
I mean you see what happened to arena. WE DONT WANT DAMPEN GAMES. Instead we want one shots. Well tha ks 2300 rated people for awesome feedback. Arena has never been this much fun /sarcasme off.

Its all on us? I never saw that feedback, but what ever its to late now anyway.

Given the last two betas I don't think they actually listen to anyone... I've never heard of a time when a system was cut that was a disaster except bfa where it was far to late to change it and thankfully it was gutted instead.

Believe it or not but AP was way,way worse almost till launch. It was still super awful but it was worse.

[Soon-TM]

And the fear came about because people min maxed to death the game.

People (at least those playing at a high level) NEED to minmax the hell out of the game, given how bloated complex PvE has become. As usual, mythic folks come up with some ideal setup, and the rest of the community (or most of it) follows. Whether it's out of "tryhardism", going with the flow, or just trying to make sure they aren't left in the dust when it comes to pugging, it doesn’t really matter.

The ugly truth is that if you want less minmaxing, you have to make your game easier - and by now, it may be too late anyway.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Well they gotta put something on that bread and what's better than some self-stirred controversy when it comes to free clicks and subs.

ofc, Towelliee is so bad at the game that hes even ashamed to stream hes raiding progress, the wr 600 guild he plays in would gain like ~300 ranks by benching him so he has to get attention somehow

[Soon-TM]

Then makes you wonder to who they listen nowadays.
I mean you see what happened to arena. WE DONT WANT DAMPEN GAMES. Instead we want one shots. Well tha ks 2300 rated people for awesome feedback. Arena has never been this much fun /sarcasme off.

Its all on us? I never saw that feedback, but what ever its to late now anyway.

When it comes to SL, I think they basically ticked all of the boxes required by mythic raiders. I'd like to say that they listened to pvp'ers as well, now that we have vendors back - but who in their sane mind asked for the 1-shot fest that is PvP these days (at least in anything that it isn't 3v3)?

[Electric Lighter]

When it comes to SL, I think they basically ticked all of the boxes required by mythic raiders. I'd like to say that they listened to pvp'ers as well, now that we have vendors back - but who in their sane mind asked for the 1-shot fest that is PvP these days (at least in anything that it isn't 3v3)?

I mean the only box mythic raiders really care about is "are the fights good"

They released a middle of the road raid. CN won't be remembered as any of the greats beyond the aesthetic being pretty cool but a lot of the mythic fights went untested and rushed. This is the first tier I can recall with multiple ten minute fights on mythic and worse the extra time is pure padding. The dance studio on council adds nothing to the fight and almost acts as a bio break.

Yes mythic raiders are rather easy to please compared to most of the playerbase. We have a clearly defined want and a easy path to achieving it but I can't find anyone happy about covenants, conduits, or the absurd level of farming needed to gear this tier. Sure we had a laugh crushing people in pvp to get 220 gear the first week but that humor faded when we realized we were going to be doing that for every alt.

I don't pvp enough to really comment on it I simply go into it to loot gear and transmog then leave.

[Usernameforforums]

Im of the belief 9.1 has to be the most incredible patch wow has had to offer. At the very least top 3 patches. It cant be a another 6.1. It needs to be as good as 5.2.

[Alanar]

Given the last two betas I don't think they actually listen to anyone... I've never heard of a time when a system was cut that was a disaster except bfa where it was far to late to change it and thankfully it was gutted instead.

Believe it or not but AP was way,way worse almost till launch. It was still super awful but it was worse.

It was unfun I agree, but I liked the idea of the artifacts where we felt more powerfull with every gain. Altho it became useless eventually. It felt like progressing. They could have spiced it up by adding perks in between such as new glyphs or green fire questlines. Idk I always felt they could have done so much more with that system that would keep players engaged.

Bfa armor was a fail and it became even more tedious at later stages of the expansion.

Right now we have none, which is okey I guess. But there is nothing realy exciting to work to.

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When it comes to SL, I think they basically ticked all of the boxes required by mythic raiders. I'd like to say that they listened to pvp'ers as well, now that we have vendors back - but who in their sane mind asked for the 1-shot fest that is PvP these days (at least in anything that it isn't 3v3)?

The vendors are just qol changes what we have been asking since they removed it and then bring it like wow super new thing. Its the only good part of pvp changes imo.
People complained about the dampen games appearntly, but we got something even worse back. I mean who thought it would be fun to go back to get killed in a stun is beyond me.

Inb4: I am glad they dont listen to 1600 scrubs and listen to a smal group who sits on that ivory tower. We see how that worked out lol.

[Electric Lighter]

It was unfun I agree, but I liked the idea of the artifacts where we felt more powerfull with every gain. Altho it became useless eventually. It felt like progressing. They could have spiced it up by adding perks in between such as new glyphs or green fire questlines. Idk I always felt they could have done so much more with that system that would keep players engaged.

Bfa armor was a fail and it became even more tedious at later stages of the expansion.

Right now we have none, which is okey I guess. But there is nothing realy exciting to work to.

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The vendors are just qol changes what we have been asking since they removed it and then bring it like wow super new thing. Its the only good part of pvp changes imo.
People complained about the dampen games appearntly, but we got something even worse back. I mean who thought it would be fun to go back to get killed in a stun is beyond me.

I would prefer even less then we have now honestly. I don't understand the draw of time sink systems over simply climbing the difficulty ladder and gearing. They are simply giving you the power you usually got at level cap.

[Alanar]

I would prefer even less then we have now honestly. I don't understand the draw of time sink systems over simply climbing the difficulty ladder and gearing. They are simply giving you the power you usually got at level cap.

The problem with that in 2021 is that it would not cut it.
Its not enough.