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  1. #1

    Smile Prime reminders of Classic developers' incompetence



    With all the fuss and discussion about a better expansion, I'd like to point out several objectives that the developers have fully failed to address:

    • Battleground designs (AV Horde favored map design, WSG terrain exploits and safe spots)
    • Botting that's so rampant and blatant people don't bother reporting anymore
    • Gathering node quantities in relation to server populations
    • Server populations in general (dozens of completely dead and single-faction servers)
    • Staging of phases and events (Naxxramas timing, scourge invasions not ending, world event timings)

    These things used to be addressed with a dialogue between the player base and developers. This tradition that made WoW successful in the first place is gone now. Irrational changes to the drums are another fine example of chaotic development of a product the developers have lost their interest in.

    Don't get your hopes up for TBC. The Classic "developers" have proven to be completely ignorant to community feedback and utterly clueless to what's going on in game.

  2. #2
    I fully expect TBC to be full of FotM classes and min-maxers. It wont be fun at all.
    RETH

  3. #3
    i hope they just slap sated on drums anyways cuz fuck leatherworking such a boring profession

  4. #4
    Was everything optimal? no
    Was classic still fun? yes
    Will TBC be optimal? unlikely
    Will TBC be fun? It will

    Stop being a negative nancy.

  5. #5
    Yall wanted no changes
    You get no changes

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    I fully expect TBC to be full of FotM classes and min-maxers. It wont be fun at all.
    What exactly were FOTM classes? tBC was a peak idea of "bring the class, not the player" where many specs brought some unique buff/debuff.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  7. #7
    Lots of locks and hunters I imagine are the big DPS classes, but overall I think there will be a better balance of different classes since you need like 1 of most specs or at least 1 of each class.

  8. #8
    You have to understand something. The game has to be like I want it to be because their is no other reason for the universe to exsist besides to serve me. Everyone agrees with me because I am a god. Those that disagree with me hate the game, hate everyone, hate everything and just want to cause trouble. Never forget what matters about this game. Me, me, and most importantly me.

    P.S. I think that will cover most of where this thread will go.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Yall wanted no changes
    You get no changes
    Took the words outta my... offa mah keys???
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gouca View Post
    Battleground designs (AV Horde favored map design, WSG terrain exploits and safe spots)
    First off, a redesign of AV was never on the table.
    A previous version, perhaps, but solving the whole AV imbalance issue is just silly.

    Disregarding that i hold the opinion that this "Horde has an advantage in AV" is Alliance propaganda, Blizzard even mocked Horde players for their defeatist attitude back in TBC, as back then, AV was seemingly Alliance favored.
    There are advantages on both sides, right now, Alliance refuses to take advantage of theirs.

    I'm going to make the following prediction for TBC AV:
    1. It will swing completely the other way and Alliance will have 70%+ winrate - as they're just better at rushing
    2. Nothing will change at all because Horde continues to turtle and stall out the Alliance
    Quote Originally Posted by Gouca View Post
    [*]Botting that's so rampant and blatant people don't bother reporting anymore
    Fair enough, but i think that's more of a "Blizzard" issue, than "Developer" issue, the team that is supposed to take of this needs more resources and i think Blizzard just doesn't see any value in investing more.

    Disregarding that just banning bots is only part of the solution, Blizzard needs to go after people that buy gold, because that kills the demand for botters in the first place.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    First off, a redesign of AV was never on the table.
    A previous version, perhaps, but solving the whole AV imbalance issue is just silly.

    Disregarding that i hold the opinion that this "Horde has an advantage in AV" is Alliance propaganda, Blizzard even mocked Horde players for their defeatist attitude back in TBC, as back then, AV was seemingly Alliance favored.
    There are advantages on both sides, right now, Alliance refuses to take advantage of theirs.

    I'm going to make the following prediction for TBC AV:
    1. It will swing completely the other way and Alliance will have 70%+ winrate - as they're just better at rushing
    2. Nothing will change at all because Horde continues to turtle and stall out the Alliance

    Fair enough, but i think that's more of a "Blizzard" issue, than "Developer" issue, the team that is supposed to take of this needs more resources and i think Blizzard just doesn't see any value in investing more.

    Disregarding that just banning bots is only part of the solution, Blizzard needs to go after people that buy gold, because that kills the demand for botters in the first place.
    This is pure BS, Alliance never had any real map advantage it was always a que advantage and a advantage of cooperation in the past.
    AV is changed in Classic due the que changes Blizzard did, giving Alliance a 1% winrate, it should never have been done(Or it should have been reverted to the thru que system again) but some Changes are ok i guess for the already Bigger faction due to simple being better in pvp......

    The big question is will blizzard ones again kill the Alliance with their own bias? it is currently looking like that will just happen again even with the "changes".
    Last edited by Thundering; 2021-03-31 at 12:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    This is pure BS,
    AV is changed in Classic due the que changes Blizzard did givign Alliance a 1% winrate, it should never have been done(Or it should have been reverted to the thru que system again) but some Changes are ok i guess for the already Bigger faction due to simple being better in pvp......
    In case you missed that: Any Alliance player not participating in a pre made got fucked by them.

    They forced multiple games to open, abandon them if not enough people get an invite for that BG, which then gets refilled by said random and the game usually then started with less than 20 Alliance players, which pretty much doomed them to a loss.

    As a Horde player myself who has played extensively AV during that time, i found it rather entertaining how this whole thing went down.
    If i were to take a guess, i'd say my winrate against against Alliance Pre made during that time was about 50% because their rush Strat was so utterly predictable and the Horde side actually wizened up and countered them, because most of them threw the towel the moment their 1st rush failed.

    Either you get a BG abandoned by a Pre made, which became an Auto win, or you went up against a Pre made, which usually had this utterly predictable strat.

    But as an Alliance player that's not part of pre made, it was pretty much impossible to win a game because most matches you were part of didn't even start with an even number of players.

    So, seeing that as the saving grace for Alliance is a bit odd.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    In case you missed that: Any Alliance player not participating in a pre made got fucked by them.

    They forced multiple games to open, abandon them if not enough people get an invite for that BG, which then gets refilled by said random and the game usually then started with less than 20 Alliance players, which pretty much doomed them to a loss.

    Either you get a BG abandoned by a Pre made, which became an Auto win, or you went up against a Pre made, which usually had this utterly predictable strat.

    But as an Alliance player that's not part of pre made, it was pretty much impossible to win a game because most matches you were part of didn't even start with an even number of players.

    So, seeing that as the saving grace for Alliance is a bit odd.
    The Alliance players without premades just now are consigned to longer games with a 99% chance to lose so nothing has changed for them.
    The killing of Alliance premades just made most Alliance player stop doing Av in its entirely killing the entire Bg. So noone won the end, all blizzard did was a non Vanilla like Av exp that dident attract the faction on the short end of the stick makeing it a dead bgs really worth it...... Like today there is 2 running Av's...... while there is 70 Wsg's and 50 Ab's.
    The Fact the changed the Av exp in horde favor and haven't made any more changes to it just shows the bias is still there and it will kill the game again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    In case you missed that: Any Alliance player not participating in a pre made got fucked by them.

    They forced multiple games to open, abandon them if not enough people get an invite for that BG, which then gets refilled by said random and the game usually then started with less than 20 Alliance players, which pretty much doomed them to a loss.

    Either you get a BG abandoned by a Pre made, which became an Auto win, or you went up against a Pre made, which usually had this utterly predictable strat.

    But as an Alliance player that's not part of pre made, it was pretty much impossible to win a game because most matches you were part of didn't even start with an even number of players.

    So, seeing that as the saving grace for Alliance is a bit odd.
    The Alliance players without premades just now are consigned to longer games with a 99% chance to lose so nothing has changed for them.
    The killing of Alliance premades just made most Alliance player stop doing Av in its entirely killing the entire Bg. So noone won the end, all blizzard did was a non Vanilla like Av exp that dident attract the faction on the short end of the stick makeing it a dead bgs really worth it...... Like today there is 2 running Av's...... while there is 70 Wsg's and 50 Ab's.
    The Fact the changed the Av exp in horde favor and haven't made any more changes to it just shows the bias is still there and it will kill the game again.
    I even had friends who played Horde quite only due to that they had 3h que into Av after the change.....

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gouca View Post


    With all the fuss and discussion about a better expansion, I'd like to point out several objectives that the developers have fully failed to address:

    • Battleground designs (AV Horde favored map design, WSG terrain exploits and safe spots)
    • Botting that's so rampant and blatant people don't bother reporting anymore
    • Gathering node quantities in relation to server populations
    • Server populations in general (dozens of completely dead and single-faction servers)
    • Staging of phases and events (Naxxramas timing, scourge invasions not ending, world event timings)

    These things used to be addressed with a dialogue between the player base and developers. This tradition that made WoW successful in the first place is gone now. Irrational changes to the drums are another fine example of chaotic development of a product the developers have lost their interest in.

    Don't get your hopes up for TBC. The Classic "developers" have proven to be completely ignorant to community feedback and utterly clueless to what's going on in game.
    so everything that was not written in stone in 2004 is a bad decision. The exact picture of mmo-champion. Everything that is happening is trash *insert baby crying*

    /sigh

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    I fully expect TBC to be full of FotM classes and min-maxers. It wont be fun at all.
    How about you just don't play with them? Everyone can play the way they have fun. You don't like min/maxing? Don't do it. You are obviously not alone so there should be more than enough people to play with that like to play it like you do.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    The Alliance players without premades just now are consigned to longer games with a 99% chance to lose so nothing has changed for them.
    Yes, but that's on the Alliance, sorry, but if they cannot be arsed to take the advantages that the BG provides them, it's not the fault of the Horde that they do so.

    There is a difference between your side starting less than half of a team and your team just giving up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    The killing of Alliance premades just made most Alliance player stop doing Av in its entirely killing the entire Bg.
    Not sure if 40man pre mades, fishing to get the majority into the same game is such a joyful experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    The Fact the changed the Av exp in horde favor and haven't made any more changes to it just shows the bias is still there and it will kill the game again.
    Taking into account that they fixed the backdoor to Dun Baldar and also closed the gap between the cliffside and IWB, that's not true.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Yall wanted no changes
    You get no changes
    There were two sets of people who wanted 'no changes'

    A) naive idealists who wanted an experience that felt the same as what they had in the original launch version of the game, and
    B) private server players/theorcrafters who spent 15 years solving and min/maxing the soul out of the thing and didn't want anything modified that could be a barrier to all the ways they've thought in hindsight they could optimize or exploit when Blizzard finally gave them an official setting in which to operate.

    Meanwhile, there's probably a whole lot of people in the middle who like the Classic era design better than the current game design that mostly dates back to Legion and/or MOP (borrowed power systems, talent design respectively) but overall don't know why it's better not to have updated graphics, customization options, QOL features like instant mail to alts/guildies, the improved Guild & Community interface, transmog, or to never actually tune any of the specs that they'd like to play more but aren't as good.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gouca View Post
    Battleground designs (AV Horde favored map design, WSG terrain exploits and safe spots)
    Why does this lie keep popping up? The only thing good for Horde AV is they start a little bit closer to the middle of the map. I believe they fixed both sides having terrain exploits as the Alliance could jump up the waterfall and take the Relief Hut within a minute of the match starting and the Horde being able to sort of get behind the North Tower to take it? The fact that Alliance can cap a tower without getting shot by the NPCs while Horde have to clear the tower out of NPCs.

    So how is the Horde favored again? Most of the time, by the time they ride North, the Alliance had already waterfall exploited into the RH and then the game becomes very lopsided at that point.

  19. #19
    everyone hyped for tbc clearly didn't pay attention to classic

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yes, but that's on the Alliance, sorry, but if they cannot be arsed to take the advantages that the BG provides them, it's not the fault of the Horde that they do so.

    There is a difference between your side starting less than half of a team and your team just giving up.

    Not sure if 40man pre mades, fishing to get the majority into the same game is such a joyful experience.

    Taking into account that they fixed the backdoor to Dun Baldar and also closed the gap between the cliffside and IWB, that's not true.
    There is no gamewinning advantage for the the alliance in AV.
    Fixing both the back doors is just a fix for both sides, the The que change was a horde QQ fix.

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