Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Raisei]

None at all, really. Which is why other games do it I imagine. WoW, however, is run by and for moralistic prudes who feel that everything must be earned in the ways they've deemed worthy.

Yes, I also feel I should be paid by my boss for being at home playing games, but moralistic prude that he is, he expects me to work for my money. The nerve!!!

Geezus F. Christ... the pure undiluted entitlement... when spending time in a game where you kill monsters for fun is becoming an intolerable chore ...

[ek0zu]

We had that once, and everyone hated it, as it made gearing useless, and everyone did just farm the broken M+/Raid trinkets to get atleast *some* edge.

I don't mind getting my shit kicked in by a strong pvper, since I can still do things in bg's that matter. MC their healer so that he can't heal the team. CC, dispell, purge, spread dots. Delay the enemy from capturing. Even if I die way faster, I can make my actions matter.

Till I got enough gear to compete in the arena. And return with a feeling of being way more powerful in bg's after grinding my honorpoints.
It makes me feel great seeing the difference in strength after such a long grind.

I am not entirely sure that everyone hated it. The most vocal did hate it yes, the people that love to stomp undergeared folks they hated it yes. But pvp in any game is not defined by your gear but by the player's experience in the field, cooperation with your teammates (if we don't have 1v1 situations), game knowledge and ofc overall skill.

There are plenty of things that blizzard could do for the pvp community to thrive once again, without even touching balancing, that they simply don't do and it is a huge wasted opportunity because there are tons of people who love WoW's pvp (any pvp, open world, BGs, Arenas) that don't play due to the huge barriers to entry and stay competitive.

Before the era of the battleroyals that we now have, Blizzard had the most successful pvp games along with Valve's CS, where your only required grind was to just play the game and get good.

[ellieg]

Yes, I also feel I should be paid by my boss for being at home playing games, but moralistic prude that he is, he expects me to work for my money. The nerve!!!

Geezus F. Christ... the pure undiluted entitlement... when spending time in a game where you kill monsters for fun is becoming an intolerable chore ...

These ppl in here are hilarious. They argue as if the whole world backs them. Call everyone else names like prudes, elitists, selfish. Demand everything for paying $15 a month. And act like everyone who is not decked in 226 gear has the same opinion as them. Then have the nerve to say that everyone else is just bad and that's why they need the gear.

They pretend that they literally can not do any group content in an mmo. Either by gatekeeping elitists or my favorite reason, they just aren't interested in it. Never in the history of wow have you gotten BiS set without rated pvp, m+, or raids. If you look at a 16 year old game, and decide you want the best gear but dont enjoy the content that has given the gear for 16 years, why are you playing?

They also confuse the term casual. One side says casuals but actually refers to 0 skill players that literally can't beat lfr if it was full group of players like them. The other side refers to casuals as ppl that have like an hour to play a week, bit for some reason think they need gear in a game they don't even play?

[Echocho]

They also confuse the term casual. One side says casuals but actually refers to 0 skill players that literally can't beat lfr if it was full group of players like them. The other side refers to casuals as ppl that have like an hour to play a week, bit for some reason think they need gear in a game they don't even play?

If you're so bad that you can't complete LFR you need gear more than anyone else in the game in order to brute force it.
Not mythic quality gear but definitely much higher than LFR gear.
A mythic raider can clear the raid before having a full set of mythic gear. A LFR raider who is truly awful won't be able to clear the raid even in full LFR gear. They need normal or even heroic gear to offset their lack of skill.

Gear progression exists primarily to help you overcome obstacles.

[ellieg]

If you're so bad that you can't complete LFR you need gear more than anyone else in the game in order to brute force it.
Not mythic quality gear but definitely much higher than LFR gear.
A mythic raider can clear the raid before having a full set of mythic gear. A LFR raider who is truly awful won't be able to clear the raid even in full LFR gear. They need normal or even heroic gear to offset their lack of skill.

Gear progression exists primarily to help you overcome obstacles.

And you have 197 covenant gear that does that. If you can't down lfr, it's a skill issue, not a gear one.

[LordTakeo]

The underlying problem is the " meta ". If I want to play, for example, an havoc DH, and I want to push rewarding content, I won't be taken or I'll struggle for it. Which mean the rewards will be denied for me in the long run.

Why does the better rewards should be locked behind a specific comp or meta ?

I know the meta is a blizzard problem to begin with because of the poor balance of classes, but, come on, everyone should have the same chances.

( and no, rerolling or changing spec is not an acceptable " fix " for this )

I really recommend just playing, and making friends. Alot of people in my fl are just people that played well, or thought of me playing well, in m+. And then you got your groups, that will take you, no matter your class.

[Vampyrr]

Effort should reflect reward... otherwise what incentive is there to do harder content?

And don't give me the typical bullshit response of doing it for the 'fun' of it.

One can argue then that putting in a sufficient amount of time qualifies as deserving of reward as well.

[ellieg]

One can argue then that putting in a sufficient amount of time qualifies as deserving of reward as well.

It does. 197 rewards, or 203 from callings

[LordTakeo]

If you're so bad that you can't complete LFR you need gear more than anyone else in the game in order to brute force it.
Not mythic quality gear but definitely much higher than LFR gear.
A mythic raider can clear the raid before having a full set of mythic gear. A LFR raider who is truly awful won't be able to clear the raid even in full LFR gear. They need normal or even heroic gear to offset their lack of skill.

Gear progression exists primarily to help you overcome obstacles.

While true to an extend, gear can't help you overcome everything. Mechanics will kill your raid, 2 mill damage will kill you with 50k or 60k hp.

I'm fine with Gear how it is atm, except that PvP is basically more profitable than mythic raids, but that's another can of worms.

You can get over time, pretty easy to 213 atleast, with M+ alone. And as your gear gets better, your keys get better, and the chests reward you 226 ish gear.

Time is the only gatekeeper, and if you only choose 1 type of content, you chose to gatekeep yourself.

[kenn9530]

Except gear isn't hard to get if you do pvp. The only place gear is hard to get is in pve content. Drop rates are abyssmal so players are forced to pvp if they want to reliably gear themselves. Have you even played Shadowlands?

I have not stepped foot once in PvP and im 222 ilvl, the only players forced to PvP are ones racing to get the titles before they all dissapear, you can get gear fairly quickly as long as you do the content to earn it, you must of missed me making the point that previous expansions have just given players high level loot for no effort and now those players moan they are not getting high level items without actually doing the content to earn them.

That is precisely the problem. Let us return to the previous way where a random BG player could earn conquest gear at a slower pace than a rated player.

The problem in the first place was allowing players to easily get high level gear in previous expansions so now those players complain about not getting gear they have not earnt in the first place.

If a raider doesnt do anything but normal raids then you only get 200 ilvl gear, just the same as you only wanting to do BGs so your actually being rewarded for the content your doing, its not good to just reward players with higher gear for not doing anything to earn it.

snip

All players have access to earning better rewards, players should never be rewarded with items if they are not actually doing the content to earn it. If your not doing the harder content character progression is kinda pointless anyway, WoW is not really a character progress type of game.

[Electric Lighter]

I have not stepped foot once in PvP and im 222 ilvl, the only players forced to PvP are ones racing to get the titles before they all dissapear, you can get gear fairly quickly as long as you do the content to earn it, you must of missed me making the point that previous expansions have just given players high level loot for no effort and now those players moan they are not getting high level items without actually doing the content to earn them.

Need is a strong word. It does shave a lot of hours off your grind if you simply pvp to 1800 in rbgs with how little loot dungeons give now.

[ellieg]

Need is a strong word. It does shave a lot of hours off your grind if you simply pvp to 1800 in rbgs with how little loot dungeons give now.

Are there any statistics on what % get 1800?

[Electric Lighter]

Are there any statistics on what % get 1800?

I don't know to be honest I am not interested in pvp I just know it gets you 220 gear in relatively few games. Its to the point you have to usually actively grind out conquest long before you hit rating cap.

[ellieg]

I don't know to be honest I am not interested in pvp I just know it gets you 220 gear in relatively few games. Its to the point you have to usually actively grind out conquest long before you hit rating cap.

Gotcha. I never really pvp either. I know there's a lot factors but I always assumed it was like only 10% reach 1800

[Electric Lighter]

Gotcha. I never really pvp either. I know there's a lot factors but I always assumed it was like only 10% reach 1800

Not this season. Tons of players flooded RBGs for easy gear. Its pretty packed rather then how its usually dead.

[TheRevenantHero]

I have not stepped foot once in PvP and im 222 ilvl, the only players forced to PvP are ones racing to get the titles before they all dissapear, you can get gear fairly quickly as long as you do the content to earn it, you must of missed me making the point that previous expansions have just given players high level loot for no effort and now those players moan they are not getting high level items without actually doing the content to earn them.



The problem in the first place was allowing players to easily get high level gear in previous expansions so now those players complain about not getting gear they have not earnt in the first place.

If a raider doesnt do anything but normal raids then you only get 200 ilvl gear, just the same as you only wanting to do BGs so your actually being rewarded for the content your doing, its not good to just reward players with higher gear for not doing anything to earn it.



All players have access to earning better rewards, players should never be rewarded with items if they are not actually doing the content to earn it. If your not doing the harder content character progression is kinda pointless anyway, WoW is not really a character progress type of game.

Then you have been exceptionally lucky with RNG if you got to that ilvl without pvp. Because in the pve content, loot drops are needlessly rare. I have definitely gone several heroic dungeons and LFR and didn't get a single piece of loot. Meanwhile, if you pvp then you will be swimming in loot and it's why players are mad about it. PvE players shouldn't be forced into pvp just to have a far better chance at increasing their ilvl. It's terrible game design.

Also, no. All players do NOT have access to earning better rewards because raid pug groups usually expect you to be a ridiculous ilvl and/or have AOTC before they invite you even to a normal difficulty run. So unless you're in a guild, you will never see higher end content.

[Lodreh]

...You are delusional if you think people would do harder content if there wouldnt be any gear rewards...

I see the delusional ones as people who run the exact same content for a 'chance' at rewards. It's an antiquated system that does not respect the time of the player. RNG gearing needs to die in a fire. It's just demoralizing to spend a few hours clearing M+s or HRaids and get nothing to show for it. Obviously if you clear the content you don't 'need' the gear hence why better gear seems like a poor carrot on the stick to chase.

[ellieg]

Then you have been exceptionally lucky with RNG if you got to that ilvl without pvp. Because in the pve content, loot drops are needlessly rare. I have definitely gone several heroic dungeons and LFR and didn't get a single piece of loot. Meanwhile, if you pvp then you will be swimming in loot and it's why players are mad about it. PvE players shouldn't be forced into pvp just to have a far better chance at increasing their ilvl. It's terrible game design.

Also, no. All players do NOT have access to earning better rewards because raid pug groups usually expect you to be a ridiculous ilvl and/or have AOTC before they invite you even to a normal difficulty run. So unless you're in a guild, you will never see higher end content.

Heroic dungeons have the same drop rate they've always had. 1 drop per 5 ppl per boss. In a 4 boss dungeon 1 person gets a 1 drop per run 99% of the time.

For pvp, once u start getting gear higher than your rank, pvp gear is useless. Im 221 ilvl. 0 pieces of pvp gear because I didn't want to move past 1400. If I was 1600 id have 2 pieces equipped snd would maybe jump to 222. If you use the valor system and have been doing m+ or raids since the start, even 1800 is useless to you

- - - Updated - - -

I see the delusional ones as people who run the exact same content for a 'chance' at rewards. It's an antiquated system that does not respect the time of the player. RNG gearing needs to die in a fire. It's just demoralizing to spend a few hours clearing M+s or HRaids and get nothing to show for it. Obviously if you clear the content you don't 'need' the gear hence why better gear seems like a poor carrot on the stick to chase.

Thats why you have the great vault. Guaranteed item drop each week for doing the content

[Soon-TM]

For bad players^^

You can be the best player in the world, and you will still be steamrolled if your opponent is overgearing you by a large margin. And if you are a newcomer to PvP, guess what - chances are that you'll never set foot in PvP again, unless you really, REALLY like to be cockslapped.

[Lodreh]

...Thats why you have the great vault. Guaranteed item drop each week for doing the content

Yeah, getting the same 220 cloak each week is awesome... not to mention it's once a week... kinda makes the rest of the week pointless.