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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Argus is NOT a likely candidate. He's killed too late to make sense.

    1: Ursoc is in Ardenweald, so it worked when we killed him.
    2: Helya is in the Maw, so it was broken when we killed her.
    3: Machine broke after Ursoc, but before Helya: Only likely candidate left: Xavius
    That is a not a logical line of thinking. You are assuming it was broken to send Helya to the Maw

  2. #62
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    With a new patch coming (eventually) I've been replaying the questing experience on my alts and the question keeps coming back: something caused all souls to be doomed to the Maw that kicked off this expansion's problems.

    1) We see a cutscene of it happening: a large red ball comes through the influx of souls to the Arbiter, incapacitating her. Some incredibly powerful soul?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNzWRsV9Mo

    2) We have some idea of when it did and did not happen: Ysera and Ursoc made it to Ardenweald. It had to have happened after the Emerald Nightmare raid in Legion, but before the Burning of Teldrassil that kicked off BFA, as we rescue night elf souls who burned from the Maw.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_IHQJy8feU

    What creature would be powerful enough to take out the Arbiter that died in that time period?

    Someone who's soul is, oh I don't know, bright red?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgdX2ct6xdc

    Discuss implications/if I'm wrong, because I think I've hit the nail on the head.
    I don't remember where I ready this, but Ursoc and Ysera were one of the last beings to enter the Shadowlands. If true, that means it happened way before the attack on Argus.

    Remember, too, that the way anima magic in Revendreth takes on a blood red color, the same color as whatever it was that hit the Arbiter, and wouldn't you know it, but Sire Denathrius has been secretly siphoning Revendreth anima to the Maw for some time, now. So, as far as I understand it, this was something done by Sire Denathrius, guided by the Jailer.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
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  3. #63
    i am still going with arbiter was attacked.

    Argus makes zero sense.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't remember where I ready this, but Ursoc and Ysera were one of the last beings to enter the Shadowlands. If true, that means it happened way before the attack on Argus.

    Remember, too, that the way anima magic in Revendreth takes on a blood red color, the same color as whatever it was that hit the Arbiter, and wouldn't you know it, but Sire Denathrius has been secretly siphoning Revendreth anima to the Maw for some time, now. So, as far as I understand it, this was something done by Sire Denathrius, guided by the Jailer.
    It was specificially that Ysera was in the last batch of wild seeds to arrive. Ursoc we only know due to the the Ardenweald animation, but had no particular information on when it happened attached. Though given the events of Val'sharah, he would necessarily have to have arrived in the same batch.

    We can pretty much rule out Xavius due to this however, since there was at least some time between their arrival and the drought. Xavius would have been killed shortly after Ursoc.

  5. #65
    Gonna start a business selling dribble trays for all the people that think it wasn't Argus for some reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
    It's a Horde symbol but the middle part can also be called the "Eye" of the zone (AZSHARA), it's a play on words
    No, it is happening. The zone changed, it belongs to the Goblins now and is their home. Hearthstone is having a mechanical themed expansion soon, November's cardback is Goblin influenced and revealed concept art shows Goblin machinery. It's a HS expansion, sorry.

  6. #66
    This isn't a new theory, it's even written down on wowpedia as one of the theories. The other being Remornia, Xavius and Gul'dan.
    I guess we'll find out eventually.

  7. #67
    Could be because Argus was the Titan of Death.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Could be because Argus was the Titan of Death.
    Killing Aman'Thul wouldn't break the Machine of Time. Titans are mastering some elements/cosmic powers, that doesn't mean they're linked to them in any form

  9. #69
    Yes, we've know it's likely been Argus for a while. He was the Titan of death. The question is why

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    While Argus is the most likely candidate, we won't know for sure. Blizzard can always pull out something out of their ass as they've done so many times recently
    Literally every part of the story was pulled from their ass at some point. Remember that.

  11. #71
    no offense, but: a lot of ppl here have waaaay too much faith in Blzzards writing. you interpret way too much in these things. as always.

    ppl speculate „what it could be“, „how crazy“, „whats going on“, on all that crazy stuff. and in 99% of the time it was just plain simple writing and nothing special happened. no greater story, super secret or whatever behind it. and its always the same. and always ppl act like they are awaiting that THIS time there is this special cool story happening and Blizzard willingly putted that small hint here. complete nonsense. Blizzard never did that. they just write simple stories since day 1. and they switch it completely, just for the sake of an xpac design, simply to another story and give a fuck about loose ends. thats all. but ppl interpret whatever shit into this.

    so, to be on topic: it was Denathrius. it was nothing special. no greater secret/conspiracy/whatever. and it will not even be confirmed by Blizz that it was just Denathrius, because they will just never loose any word on this. its completely unimportant. stuff goes on, story goes on, some other lame shit happens, and nobody will remember this stuff and nothimg happened with that. thats all.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2021-04-01 at 05:58 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's questionable how accurate that is. The reasoning for why we fought him is total bollocks. Besides, "sought to" doesn't mean that they actually succeeded at it.
    Sure, but his point was that blizzard mentioned it in the game, so it is proof that in their eyes he was at least in some respects linked to death.

    Which makes it more likely that SL is where he goes when he dies. And being the first death titan it could definitely have some consequences.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Im pretty sure this has been discussed several times with the same theory


    While Argus is the most likely candidate, we won't know for sure. Blizzard can always pull out something out of their ass as they've done so many times recently
    Exactly. I mean is Shadowlands subject to time or is it singular like the TN which is hands down one of the worst decisions they ever made and needs to be retconned unlike the ridiculous lengths they went to retcon MU Guldan to make him more like AU Guldan even though AU was supposed to be different for valid lore reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Could be because Argus was the Titan of Death.
    Not how it works. Or at least how it stands. If what you're saying is true then, Eonar has direct influence over Ardenweald and the others can have direct influence over the other zones. It seems the opposite though, that the titans are only about OUR reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinnersGrin View Post
    Gonna start a business selling dribble trays for all the people that think it wasn't Argus for some reason
    Remember we're dealing with the company who thinks "leave clues and it wasn't" and "leave clues and it was" is a "twist that no one expected". Therefore anything can or cannot happen and they'll say they left clues.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Anima is clearly not something that was previously stored in the long term. The Covenants are running on fumes after a only a year.

    So what's important here isn't the total amount the Maw gets, but the constant supply of it.
    Anima is the essence of every living soul. The Shadowlands is the place, where souls rest (eternally) after parting from their living bodies. If we assume, that anima is needed to sustain the realms of the shadowlands, which are the habitats for the souls, and that the souls perish should their habitats perish, then that gives us 3 options on how anima works:
    1. Anima is generated passively by every soul. That would mean that souls are able to sustain themselves in every realm and excess anima is used for other purposes. This would also mean, that there is no real drought and no real danger of any realm "dying". So by that logic this can not be the way anima works, since then anima would equal number of souls collected and no "batteries" as you call it would be needed. Also the maw would be terribly outnumbered. This is not shown ingame.
    2. Anima is a fixed value stored in each soul. This is probably how the lore writers think about anima. A soul has a given anima value and is sent into one realm, where this anima is used to do stuff. Problem here is, that we assume it takes anima to sustain a realm. And logically it would take more anima to sustain a realm with more inhabitants (souls). Since souls "live" eternally there will come a point in time where the amount of anima needed to sustain the souls is higher than the possible influx of souls. Meaning that this model also does not make sense, as it inevitably leads to the demise of (parts of) the Shadowlands and works contrary to the fact, that souls exist eternally (peacefully) in the afterlife.
    That leaves us with option 3: Souls are able to generate anima, but they lose this generation capability once assigned to a covenant. The anima generation capability is split from the souls and instead stored within oribos, specifically the arbiter, and funneled from there into the different realms of the Shadowlands, depending on how many souls are stored within them. The arbiter functions as the control unit of all the Shadowlands, being able to turn some realms off if they became corrupted (whatever that may imply). Now that the arbiter is broken all anima and souls are funneled into the maw. This is the most logical explanation, yet not reflected ingame.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-04-01 at 07:19 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Jailer needed pawns on Azeroth.

    Jailer has Denathris as pawn in Shadowlands.

    Dreadlords in Burning Legion. Burning Legion infiltrated by Dreadlords. Therefore Burning Legion infiltrated by Jailer.
    He'd had a pawn on Azeroth in the form of Sylvanas ever since Cataclysm. Looking back on her actions since then thru the lens of being his servant the Forsaken's expansion into Silverpine, Gilneas, and Hillsbrad, allowing the factions to walk into an ambush in Legion, up to the Blood War and the burning of the tree play into the Jailer's plans.
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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Im pretty sure this has been discussed several times with the same theory


    While Argus is the most likely candidate, we won't know for sure. Blizzard can always pull out something out of their ass as they've done so many times recently
    ^this , yup.

    Our guess right now is Argus.

  17. #77
    I think there is a list of four or five explanations pinned to a fridge at Blizzard HQ somewhere and at some point Blizzard is going to pick the one that fits with what they want to do next. Hopefully by then they have fully overcome their "we subverted your exspectations!" writing phase and we will get one of the satisfying answers.
    Argus would work. Denathrius would work. I think even "it was so many people dying in terror at teldrassil!" would work (right?).

    But in the end, how the machiene broke is about as important as how the warp core works. It's a plot device to bring the Enterprise to new planets/us to the shadowlands.
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  18. #78
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    Damn, I hope it was not Argus. This is how maw got created? So it’s impossible, because we killed him later. Must be someone before we killed Arthas.

  19. #79
    Actually it's during the mainstory of ravendreth or maybe just a bit after (at the Skype meeting in oribos) that prince renathal states that it was denathrius that caused the drought.
    Pretty much self explanatory to me

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Good ol Stroggylos View Post
    Actually it's during the mainstory of ravendreth or maybe just a bit after (at the Skype meeting in oribos) that prince renathal states that it was denathrius that caused the drought.
    Pretty much self explanatory to me
    The question is less "who", more "how".
    The dreadlords are Denathtius' agents, if they orchestrated Argus' death as a potential way to disable the Arbiter it would still count as Denathrius ultimately causing the drought.
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