China... how to deal with them?

[Blur4stuff]

Nothing meaningful will be done against China if you can't free most of their people's minds. Too many citizens back the government because they are so detached from reality.

[Rasulis]

Nothing meaningful will be done against China if you can't free most of their people's minds. Too many citizens back the government because they are so detached from reality.

There is not much that the US can do to change China's domestic policy. However, there are a lot that we can do to compete with China on a global level.

Reduce our dependent on their manufacturing. Something that was already started under Trump. A lot of US companies – Apple, Microsoft, HP, Nike, etc. - are already moving their manufacturing out of China to other Asian countries. Other non-US companies are following suit. Foxconn already moved 30% of their manufacturing out of China. Other Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean and EU companies are doing the same.

Produce our own Lithium and rare earth minerals. Imperial Valley has the largest Lithium deposit in the world. Why are we importing Lithium from China.

Restrict access to US technologies. Ban sales of SME development tools to China. The US has stranglehold in this sector.

Ban sales of all advanced microchips to Chinese companies. Every single semiconductor manufacturing companies in the world use US license and SME tools. If the US says “jump”, they'll say “how high.”

Get our allies that were alienated by Trump back. The joint sanction between EU, Britain, US and Canada on 4 Chinese regional officials was a 100-D chess move. China overreacted by sanctioning not only high levels EU officials, but some major organizations responsible for EU FDI. The 2020 mutual economic investment agreement between EU and China is now dead.

Strengthen the Vietnamese navy. Done deal.

Strengthen the Indian navy in conjunction with increased US presence in the Strait of Malacca. Approximately 60% of cargo ships heading to China still sail through the Strait of Malacca. The only other route is to sail through pirate infested water around the Indonesian archipelago increasing the travel distance by 600 miles.

Strengthen Taiwanese military. Done deal also.

Palau Invites US Military to Build Bases as China Seeks Regional Clout. Do it.

Strengthen the QUAD alliance between the US, Japan, India and Australia.

[Kellhound]

Land based aircraft do not launch from the shore, Taiwan is a bit of a distance away anyway (you really want to have fighters with full load after all, not lightened) and there is the other side of it + sea to control.
They absolutely would be used.

Modern multi-roll fighters have full load combat ranges of several hundred miles. The J-15 launched off a carrier with just a ski ramp will have significantly reduced fuel and ordnance compared to a ground based fighter. They also only have about 50 of them total.

[Dentelan]

Nothing meaningful will be done against China if you can't free most of their people's minds. Too many citizens back the government because they are so detached from reality.

Detached from reality is society that calls women "he" or men "she"

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There is not much that the US can do to change China's domestic policy. However, there are a lot that we can do to compete with China on a global level.

Reduce our dependent on their manufacturing. Something that was already started under Trump. A lot of US companies – Apple, Microsoft, HP, Nike, etc. - are already moving their manufacturing out of China to other Asian countries. Other non-US companies are following suit. Foxconn already moved 30% of their manufacturing out of China. Other Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean and EU companies are doing the same.

Produce our own Lithium and rare earth minerals. Imperial Valley has the largest Lithium deposit in the world. Why are we importing Lithium from China.

Restrict access to US technologies. Ban sales of SME development tools to China. The US has stranglehold in this sector.

Ban sales of all advanced microchips to Chinese companies. Every single semiconductor manufacturing companies in the world use US license and SME tools. If the US says “jump”, they'll say “how high.”

Get our allies that were alienated by Trump back. The joint sanction between EU, Britain, US and Canada on 4 Chinese regional officials was a 100-D chess move. China overreacted by sanctioning not only high levels EU officials, but some major organizations responsible for EU FDI. The 2020 mutual economic investment agreement between EU and China is now dead.

Strengthen the Vietnamese navy. Done deal.

Strengthen the Indian navy in conjunction with increased US presence in the Strait of Malacca. Approximately 60% of cargo ships heading to China still sail through the Strait of Malacca. The only other route is to sail through pirate infested water around the Indonesian archipelago increasing the travel distance by 600 miles.

Strengthen Taiwanese military. Done deal also.

Palau Invites US Military to Build Bases as China Seeks Regional Clout. Do it.

Strengthen the QUAD alliance between the US, Japan, India and Australia.

Doesn't sound like free market to me. So you want to win china with methods that requires to abandon your own values? Why usa is good guys again?

[Gaidax]

*snip*

Yeah, while China will just sit there and do nothing.

It's all pie in the sky level of sleepwalking talk.

As usual the issue with all these grandiose plans is that China will retaliate and unlike isolated USSR, China is so integrated in global economy and politics that you'd literally send a world spiraling into depression like never before, including US.

Trump made a decent preview - he hurt China, but China also hurt back quite a bit and that all was just slap fight in comparison to what you are offering.

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As a side note, eventually China will swallow Taiwan, just like it does with Hong Kong and they won't need to launch a single missile for that. There is a pro-unification political force in Taiwan they can nurture, just like they did in Hong Kong - it took them 25 years, but seems like they are well on track there. It's just a matter of time.

[Rasulis]

Detached from reality is society that calls women "he" or men "she"

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Doesn't sound like free market to me. So you want to win china with methods that requires to abandon your own values? Why usa is good guys again?

In the first place China is not a free market. The facts that Google & FB are blocked, and the Chinese government invest billions of dollars each year to subsidize their companies attest to that. Over 100 billion in 2020 alone went into their semiconductor sector which was the equivalent of the total venture capital funding for US in 2020. Fortunately for us, due to lack of expertise and corruption, they were all for nothing.

Bottom line, China blocked Google and FB, US block access to advanced technologies and chips to Chinese companies. Lets see who will suffer more. Within less than a year since the US sanctioned Huawei, it went from the #1 smart phone company in the world by shipment to a distant #6. It’s 5G development is now in shambles.

The US could easily extend that sanction to every single Chinese smart phone companies, telecommunication companies, car companies, etc. The beauty of it? There is nothing the Chinese can do about it.

The time to be the good guy is over.

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Yeah, while China will just sit there and do nothing.

It's all pie in the sky level of sleepwalking talk.

As usual the issue with all these grandiose plans is that China will retaliate and unlike isolated USSR, China is so integrated in global economy and politics that you'd literally send a world spiraling into depression like never before, including US.

Trump made a decent preview - he hurt China, but China also hurt back quite a bit and that all was just slap fight in comparison to what you are offering.

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As a side note, eventually China will swallow Taiwan, just like it does with Hong Kong and they won't need to launch a single missile for that. There is a pro-unification political force in Taiwan they can nurture, just like they did in Hong Kong - it took them 25 years, but seems like they are well on track there. It's just a matter of time.

What can the Chinese do about all the steps that I described in the post above?

Anything we need from China, we can either produce domestically (lithium, rare earth minerals, etc.) or source from another country (clothes, shoes, washing machine, etc.). Apple has already moved over 30% of its iPhone assembly facilities out of China. It is time for the world to diversify it's global supply chain.

The stuffs that China needs from us, they can’t get them anywhere else.

Yes there is a pro-unification force in Taiwan. However, if it will take China another 25 years to take over Taiwan, there will be other issues that they need to worry about.

Such as The Coming Demographic Collapse of China - China this century is on track to experience history’s most dramatic demographic collapse in the absence of war or disease.

China’s National Bureau of Statistics typically releases population data for the preceding year in early March. This year, NBS delayed its announcement because the central government is scheduled next month to announce preliminary results of the 7th national census, conducted in November and December.

The image of Chinese economic and geopolitical dominance will be severely dented when Beijing releases census data. Xi Jinping may believe “the East is rising and the West is declining”—the money line from one of his speeches late last year—but that view will be exceedingly hard to maintain.

The Chinese take great pride in being part of the world’s most populous state. Beijing reported China’s population in 2019 hit 1.4 billion in 2019, up from 1.39 billion the previous year.

Chinese authorities will undoubtedly report an increase for last year as well. They are on record as believing the country’s population will continue to grow for more than a half decade.

Some are skeptical of China’s total population figures, however. Yi Fuxian of the University of Wisconsin-Madison told The National Interest that China in 2020 likely had a population of 1.26 billion. The noted demographer does not believe the number could have exceeded 1.28 billion.

Why did Yi provide a range? China’s demographic information is notoriously imprecise.

For one thing, officials as a practical matter cannot report births suggesting couples exceeded the current two-child limit.

Moreover, officials also have incentives to report that couples have used up their two-birth quota when they have in fact not done so. National Health and Family Planning Commission officials, Yi told Voice of America, report exaggerated births because real birth numbers, if known, would bolster the case for that body to be scrapped. Municipal governments, local education departments, and hospitals have been overstating China’s numbers for a different reason: to obtain subsidies or maintain budget allocations.

Yi’s estimates look reliable. True, Beijing scrapped the notorious one-child policy, perhaps history’s most ambitious social-engineering project, as of the beginning of 2016 and there was a spurt of births that year, but since then births have fallen every year.

Beijing has not announced births for last year, but early numbers indicate they plummeted from 2019. Births in the household registration—hukou—system plunged 14.9% to 10,035,000 last year. Because births so registered constitute about 80% of total births, He Yafu, a demographer, estimates total births for the country last year came in at 12,540,000.

Yi told me that the number of births for the country was in reality about 8 million and could not have exceeded 10 million.

Again, Yi looks correct. Provinces and other governmental units have reported data ahead of the census, and births were down more than 30% in some locations.

The big issue is China’s trajectory. Official media is cagey about a critical figure, the country’s total fertility rate, generally the number of children per female reaching child-bearing age. The official China Daily reports that Lu Jiehua of Peking University believes the country’s TFR, as the rate is known, “has fallen below 1.7.”

Lu is certainly right about that. The University of Wisconsin’s Yi told TNI that China’s TFR last year was 0.90 and could not have exceeded 1.1. Yi’s estimate is on the low end but is consistent with China Daily’s reporting of 1.05 in 2015.

Replacement TFR for most societies is generally 2.1 although some think China’s replacement rate is actually 2.2 because of higher child mortality.

In any event, China’s population will shrink fast. The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences projects China’s population will halve by 2100 if the TFR drops from 1.6 to 1.3.

China’s TFR, however, is far lower than 1.3. If its TFR stabilizes at 1.2—1.2 would represent a big increase—China will have a population of only 480 million by the end of the century.

If the TFR does not increase from where it is now, the country by then could end up around the 400 million mark. To put this in context, the United States, according to the U.N.’s latest projections, will have a population of 433.9 million in 2100, up from 331.0 million as of last year.

China now has a crisis. “Once it slips below 1.5, a country falls into the trap of low fertility and is unlikely to recover,” said He Yafu to the Communist Party’s Global Times. China is already well below that figure.

Beijing does not believe China’s population will begin to decline until 2028. Some believe it in fact began contracting in 2018, something evident by falling births.

In any event, as the official China Daily stated in December, “the trends are irreversible.”

That’s not good for the People’s Republic of China. As analyst Andy Xie wrote in Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post this month, “Population decline could end China’s civilization as we know it.”

Then there is the problem with the Gobi desert gobbling over 1,300 square miles of China's arable land each year. Assuming the rate of desertification remain the same, in 25 years 36% of China's land mass will be desert.

[Gaidax]

What can the Chinese do about all the steps that I described in the post above?

Anything we need from China, we can either produce domestically (lithium, rare earth minerals, etc.) or source from another country (clothes, shoes, washing machine, etc.). Apple has already moved over 30% of its iPhone assembly facilities out of China. It is time for the world to diversify it's global supply chain.

The stuffs that China needs from us, they can’t get them anywhere else.

Yes there is a pro-unification force in Taiwan. However, if it will take China another 25 years to take over Taiwan, there will be other issues that they need to worry about.

Ahah... you funny



Good luck replacing that trade deficit with competitive local offerings. If you'd start a real trade war with China, you'd have millions of people tossed under the poverty line in US and the whole administration would go swiftly under in the elections.

That's US weakness vs China. In China they have communist dictatorship - they can take it, because people don't have much say there. In US? A crisis or two all it takes to replace the government by an angry mob, especially seeing last elections results.

And that's why, I reiterate my much earlier point in this thread - no US government ever will have the balls to suicide on that hill. Not even crazy ass one like Trump's, even he stopped after barely beginning. You'd have to elect bloody Joker for something that crazy. That's why it's all just silly dreams.

[Rasulis]

Ahah... you funny



Good luck replacing that trade deficit with competitive local offerings.

Never said all domestic. We also have Vietnam, Indonesia, India, etc. Nike & Adidas have already moved a lot of their manufacturing out of China to Vietnam and Indonesia.

A quarter of the Chinese production capacity used by global sportswear brands is lying idle, according to an industry executive, as the trade war pushes the biggest labels out of the Asian nation’s factories.

Report: Apple to move ‘significant’ amount of iPad production out of China this year

It is not only American companies btw.

Japan Pays 87 Companies to Exit China After Pandemic Exposed Overreliance

EU companies are doing the same also. Even some Chinese companies are following suit.

Goodbye China: Chinese manufacturers follow multinationals out the door

[D Luniz]

There are many ways to deal with China. At the least, not like this GOPer though.

And for the record, just because you are somewhat considered part of a minority, doesn't mean you can handwave off bigotry in their name.

[Gaidax]

*snip*

You have, until you don't. Even, if you somehow think you can replace 630 billion worth of trade immediately with those countries, now who's near these country you count on so much?

That's your problem, you count on having some time machine where at snap of your fingers you can replace US 3rd biggest trade partner, while China sitting there doing nothing?

Yeah... You'd be back with Republican government before you know it, because while trying to this - you are going to be putting your cheap Chinese products addicted (and frankly many don't even have the reasonable choice) voters on the streets.

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Basically anything you propose would amount to Pyrrhic victory (if that) for whatever administration will have balls to do even 1/3 of that. That's your problem and that's why nothing is really done besides big angry words.

[Rasulis]

Basically anything you propose would amount to Pyrrhic victory (if that) for whatever administration will have balls to do even 1/3 of that. That's your problem and that's why nothing is really done besides big angry words.

With the exception of building bases on Palau, all the other steps have been taken. Although the tech sanction is currently limited to only dozens Chinese companies right now - Huawei, SMIC, DJI, AGCU Scientech; China National Scientific Instruments and Materials, Kuang-Chi Group, etc.

Notice that, other than complaining loudly, China hasn't done anything else. They could have at least sanction Apple.

Scuttling the 2020 China - EU mutual investment agreement was a brilliant move.

EU-China trade deal in tatters as sanctions shake support in Parliament

For all practical purposes, it is dead, buried six feet underground and covered with concrete.

[Slant]

With the exception of building bases on Palau, all the other steps have been taken. Although the tech sanction is currently limited to only dozens Chinese companies right now - Huawei, SMIC, DJI, AGCU Scientech; China National Scientific Instruments and Materials, Kuang-Chi Group, etc.

Notice that, other than complaining loudly, China hasn't done anything else. They could have at least sanction Apple.

Scuttling the 2020 China - EU mutual investment agreement was a brilliant move.

EU-China trade deal in tatters as sanctions shake support in Parliament

For all practical purposes, it is dead, buried six feet underground and covered with concrete.

Interesting development, because this kind of ties the trade agreement into the Ughyurs situation. How often I've said "We need to be in a dialogue with China, that's why the FTA makes sense, you can't threaten someone with consequences if you don't have anything to threaten them with.", too many times to count. People never believe me, but this is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't think it would turn out exactly this way, but it was always clear to me that once you have an FTA, or the promise of an FTA, you actually can tell China "Stop doing this or else..."

Whereas if you have nothing but contempt for the communist regime, all you have is "Stop doing this or else" and China responding "Else what? You hate us even more? We'll just ignore you harder then..."

[Rasulis]

Personally, regardless of circumstances, I think that economically the world should distance themselves from China. It is not healthy to have the global supply chain centered around one country. This also applies to semiconductor manufacturing. It is not a good idea to have Taiwan own a lion share of that sector. Especially the high end 7-nanometer or better wafers. I don’t care if Nike or Adidas built 100% of their stuffs offshoes. However, we should bring some chip manufacturing back to the USA.

It probably wasn’t his intention, but Trump’s trade war started the process of detaching the US economy from China. His mistake was in trying to go at it on his own and alienating our allies in the process. His approach ended up with the 2020 EU - China economic agreement which was awful for the US. The Biden’s administration took care of it in less than 100 days after he took over. In a master move, the administration in conjunction with EU, Canada and Australia publically condemned China’s treatment of the Uyghur and sanctioned four Xinjiang regional officials. The brilliant part is in letting the EU be the primary in the condemnation/sanction announcement.

Predictably, China overreacted and sanctioned a bunch of high level EU officials and organizations. Which pretty much killed the aforementioned 2020 agreement. What price did the US pay for that? Well, China sanctioned Gayle Manchin. Ever heard of her? She is Joe Manchin’s wife and chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom.

Is the Biden's administration soft on China?

March 10, 2021
The Biden administration is extending tariff exclusions on about 99 categories of medical products from China until September 30, 2021 – to aid the fight against COVID-19. The exclusion covers a wide range of items from medical masks and gloves to blood pressure cuff sleeves and X-ray tables. The earlier tariff exclusion extension on these medical products under Trump administration’s ‘Section 301’ tariffs was set to lapse on March 31, 2021.

March 12, 2021
Five Chinese companies – Huawei Technologies Co., ZTE Corp., Hytera Communications Corp., Hikvision Digital Technology Co., and Dahua Technology Co. – were named to a new blacklist published by the FCC on national security grounds under a 2019 law. This makes the FCC the latest regulator to maintain such a list. Other agencies with similar lists include the US Department of Commerce and the Department of Defense. Each list carries different implications, though they are all designed to steer investors, suppliers, and customers away from the companies – sometimes forcibly.

March 17, 2021
The US sanctions an additional 24 Chinese and Hong Kong officials over Beijing’s policy in Hong Kong. Foreign financial institutions that knowingly conduct significant transactions with the listed individuals will be subject to the US sanctions.

March 17, 2021
FCC announced the launch of a proceeding to determine whether to strip the local business license from China Telecom, China Unicom Americas as well as Pacific Networks and its wholly-owned subsidiary ComNet, citing national security concerns.

China may be better off with Trump in office.

China's Xi Jinping does not have a democratic 'bone in his body,' Biden says

Biden's moves against China remind Europe it doesn't have Trump to kick around anymore

President Joe Biden has surprised European allies by spurring Western unity against China, applying subtle pressure to advance priorities once associated with Donald Trump’s confrontational demeanor.

Biden’s rhetorical contrast with Trump tempted European officials to perceive a “magic force” in his presidency, heralding an end to the controversies that brought intense acrimony to the surface of the transatlantic alliance. That promised change in tone has allowed Biden’s team to pursue many of the same policies that then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo favored, but in a manner that compensates for the difficulties of Trump’s idiosyncratic policy preferences and personality.

“Everything goes very fast, probably faster than expected,” a European diplomat told the Washington Examiner. “Europeans didn't expect the [Biden] administration to move so quickly within the alliance against China.”

“Right now, [the Biden administration] is trying to restore, rebuild a strong relationship with the European Union,” an Indo-Pacific official observed. That outreach is eased by Biden’s condemnation of Trump’s withdrawal from the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, but when it comes to the Indo-Pacific, this source “cannot see a big difference between the Biden administration's China policy and the Trump administration.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken put both priorities on display during his trip to Brussels this week. In addition to the NATO foreign ministers meeting, Blinken huddled with the EU officials who finalized an investment agreement with China in December — a deal that frustrated the Biden team and disappointed Uyghur Muslim activists who had hoped that European officials would refuse to sign such a pact while China subjects Uyghurs to “modern-day slavery” and the atrocities that occur in Xinjiang's mass detention camps.

“We see the European Union as a partner of first resort on a broad array of issues, and China is one of them,” Blinken told reporters Wednesday. “Our judgment is that the onus is really going to be on China to demonstrate that the pledges it’s made on forced labor, on state-owned enterprises, on subsidies, are not just talk and that the Chinese Government will follow through on the commitments that it’s made. So, I suspect that not only will we be looking to that but so will the European Union.”

It all sounds so polite, but the reality is plain: European officials don't have Trump to kick around anymore. His discourtesies made it easy for European allies to ignore the Trump administration. “Now they feel more pressure, probably,” the European diplomat said.

Biden’s advisers likewise have built on the Trump administration’s approach to allies on China’s borders. The coronavirus pandemic has impeded overseas travel, but Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin set out for the Pacific Rim on their first trip abroad. Just days before their departure, White House officials unveiled a vaccine production initiative in coordination with Japan, Australia, and India — a diplomatic quartet championed by Pompeo and feared by China as a potential “mini-NATO.”

[zealo]

Its obvious that they are for power projection, but they say that they aren't interested in power projection. What they say and what they do are somewhat at odds.

There's no reason to take them on their word at face value.

China investing in aircraft carrier development is a highly calculated move on their part, and that's not without underlying reasons.

[alkyd]

Why do Americans/British/French/other westerners care so much about Uyghurs, but not at all about Palestinians?

Israel is America's top ally in the Middle East. America does not even recognize the existence of Palestine. Neither does any of the major European countries, except for Russia.

America supports the building of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. America supports the annexation of East Jerusalem. America supports Israel's building of walls across the West Bank that divide and promote segregation between jewish people and arab people. America does not support a 2-state solution, nor does it support a 1-state solution for building peace between Israel and Palestine. Instead, America supports a 1.5 state policy wherein Palestinians in the West Bank are living in conditions similar to Bantustans in Apartheid South Africa.

If America really cared about Muslims as much as it cares about Uyghurs, than it would encourage Israel to withdraw its soldiers and military occupation from the West Bank, and allow Palestinians to have an actual independent country instead of apartheid.

It's really funny how much American/Western propaganda demonizes China for its policies towards Uyghurs. China wants to assimilate Uyghur. Israel want to segregate Palestinians in the West Bank from Israel. China wants Uyghurs in. Israel wants Palestinians out. Segregation is always worse than "forced assimilation". There are literally armed Uyghur police with military rifles stationed all over Xinjiang policing cities. How many Arabs serve in israeli checkpoints in the West Bank? China clearly has no problem arming Uyghurs, unlike Israel arming Arabs.

Its always so funny to see American propaganda about Uyghurs and Chinese government. The most evil and heinous crime I heard that America accuses China of is organ-harvesting Uyghurs, which is repeated as fact by Westerners, like sheep. The source for these "allegations" is one Falun-Gong affiliated organization in 2019 - the China Tribunal.

This is really funny because just ten years ago, in 2009, one of the largest newspapers in Sweden, Aftonbladet, published a report that revealed testimony of Israeli soldiers harvesting organs from dead Palestinians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_A...el_controversy

Immediately, the American government pressured the Swedish government to censor the paper. The US government condemned the article as baseless and incendiary, noted the history of antisemitism and blood libels against Jews and asked the Swedish government to denounce the article.

Strangely, no such defense for China over the 2019 allegations of organ harvesting came from the West.

Look at the Wikipedia articles on uyghurs, and you will see the wikipedia articles treat uyghur organ harvesting as proven fact.

Recently, BBC and other Western media made claims of China supressing Uyghur diaspora in the West by targeting their families. It's really funny to see Americans accuse China of this, because former president of America, Donald Trump, before he was elected in 2016, said in 2015 that he would target and kill the families of terrorists in order to win against ISIS,

https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/polit...rists-families

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-do-just-that/

The top American ally in the middle east, Israel, regularly targets families of accused Palestinian terrorists through house demolitions and bombings. Westerners don't give a shit though.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ears-1.6614154

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-tr...shnerb-report/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...inian_property

[Wermys]

Trade war has been going on for 3 years now. So your point is well. Moot.

[Rasulis]

Why do Americans/British/French/other westerners care so much about Uyghurs, but not at all about Palestinians?
____

Simple answers.

Israel is not a threat to the US militarily, nor economic wise.

Whereas China has been stealing US IP rights, Israel has been contributing to the US IP troves.

Israel has contributed more startups to the US than any other countries in the world.

Ultimately, Israel is not an imminent threat to one of the most important global shipping lane and the world's, currently, only source of high end chip manufacturing.

[ifrah]

In the first place China is not a free market. The facts that Google & FB are blocked, and the Chinese government invest billions of dollars each year to subsidize their companies attest to that. Over 100 billion in 2020 alone went into their semiconductor sector which was the equivalent of the total venture capital funding for US in 2020. Fortunately for us, due to lack of expertise and corruption, they were all for nothing.

Bottom line, China blocked Google and FB, US block access to advanced technologies and chips to Chinese companies. Lets see who will suffer more. Within less than a year since the US sanctioned Huawei, it went from the #1 smart phone company in the world by shipment to a distant #6. It’s 5G development is now in shambles.

For now, yes. There's no signs obviously for China to be jumping anywhere when it comes to the cutting edge semiconductor manufacturing, but the efforsts are there. The state-owned companies are pumping out lucrative deals to whoever from Taiwan decides to be for sale. No need to worry too much about the bad return on investment as you're sitting on top of mostly bottomless state cache of money. And since Taiwan is pretty much The semiconductor fab of the world, this will gradually push the ability towards less agricultural chips they can make. Which eventually will then be eaten from the revenues of non-Chinese semiconductor manufacturers.

The US could easily extend that sanction to every single Chinese smart phone companies, telecommunication companies, car companies, etc. The beauty of it? There is nothing the Chinese can do about it.

Yes, they could. But the problem here is that the Chinese market is huge. And unless you play strictly and absolutely zero-tolerant according to CCP rules, you're out, no questions asked. These companies have money to make today, tomorrow is not their worry, so they will play the double standard game. That is, promote all the equality, human rights, liberty, BLM, you name it in the West, while having quite a bit different ballgame in China. West is easy peasy, or at least has been, since nobody seems to care as long as they get their toys cheap. Post few fancy tweets about the fad of the month and you're golden. China, well, a bit more sensitive. So their decision will prevail.

The time to be the good guy is over.

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We'll see how this plays out.

What can the Chinese do about all the steps that I described in the post above?

Anything we need from China, we can either produce domestically (lithium, rare earth minerals, etc.) or source from another country (clothes, shoes, washing machine, etc.). Apple has already moved over 30% of its iPhone assembly facilities out of China. It is time for the world to diversify it's global supply chain.

The stuffs that China needs from us, they can’t get them anywhere else.

What China can do, and most certainly does, is that for larger multinationals they set quite strict and demanding terms and conditions. Invest this much in R&D etc. or you're screwed. I've worked in a large multinational corporation, and yes, we did have "executive orders" coming from the HQ telling this and that activities/responsibilities must be shifted/increased in China, full stop. Wonder if our executives were fascinated by their abilities, or were just following CCP demands. Given that China was the single largest country by revenue, and the accomplishments of our office there were absolutely nothing to write home about, everyone can make their conclusions.
The other issue is that it's not really that simple just to pack your things and move out of China for the typical companies pumping out made in China stuff. Most, if not all of the supply chain is there. After several years of efforts you moved your own plant out, great. Then you need to import plastics, metals, circuit boards, components and whatever the heck you're making from somewhere, which in most cases is China. Not saying there's no options, or even viable ones, but until there is some tariffs or other monetary ways of motivation, most companies will just stick with the status quo. The projects/studies I've been involved regarding shifting production from China to somewhere else, not everything has been all smiles and rainbows. Aside from US-exports under the current tariffs, the savings were too abysmal or not even there unfortunately.

Yes there is a pro-unification force in Taiwan. However, if it will take China another 25 years to take over Taiwan, there will be other issues that they need to worry about.

The issue with Taiwan is that nobody can afford really to be their friends as it would unleash the full anger from Beijing. China without a doubt is pushing by whatever means CCP-friendly people there to accelerate the process. It does not take much to tip the scales in their favour. And due to the first point, nobody, be it a company or most of country officials, will intervene. US might be nagging, but at the end of the day, it won't change a thing.

Such as The Coming Demographic Collapse of China - China this century is on track to experience history’s most dramatic demographic collapse in the absence of war or disease.



Then there is the problem with the Gobi desert gobbling over 1,300 square miles of China's arable land each year. Assuming the rate of desertification remain the same, in 25 years 36% of China's land mass will be desert.

The latter explains the massive fishing armadas all across the globe trawling whatever the hell they can scrape off the ocean (/sarcasm). Demographically, hard to see the country doomed any time soon by the low fertility. The same issue has "plagued" many developed countries already for a long time, but lo and behold, no apocalypse. The previously endless demand for low-skilled labour is shrinking there as well.
Political landscape is doing well too, people have been willing to give up certain things in exchange to economic growth mostly. How long does this everlasting honeymoon ultimately last is dictated by their economy and the economy alone.


You don't like China and want to do something abou it? Don't buy their stuff. Owned by Chinese? Made in China? Don't buy it. Don't install it. Don't use it. Will probably cost you some extra $, but then it's up to you to decide whether you like it or not.

[Slant]

Why do Americans/British/French/other westerners care so much about Uyghurs, but not at all about Palestinians?

Different situation, different history, different urgency. Don't derail the thread into your pet topic, please.

[JohnBrown1917]

Different situation, different history, different urgency. Don't derail the thread into your pet topic, please.

The different situation being that the west is allied to Isreal so they don't give a crap.