Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[LedZeppelin]

Same reason ilvl 226 pvp'ers troll random bg's.

to get the 1h and shield so they can tank?

[Tradu]

This depends on how much you play and with whom you play. Majority of people are still in the 210-220 bracket.

I’m still 213, for example.

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Yeah managing to enter and deplete or time a 14 is as easy as powering on and off your computer.

I would really like to count working neurons in 90% of elitists posting in this forum.

It's much easier than any other content that rewards 226 gear.

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The ability to get the gear to compete should be easier, for instance World Quests ILvL, merging Ilvl between M+ brackets, 1-9, 10-14, 15. Normal/Heroic drop more loot.

3months into a tier, allow everyone to have an even play field, with a little work, leading up to the highest level content, then reward those who accomplish it.

Making content easier is what you do to a toddler to encourage them. To an teen/adult, heck even a 10 year old can tell, it's just pity and that doesn't feel good.

The Mage tower is a perfect example, it's difficulty never changed, we did. We sought out better gear and practiced; it had one of the highest participation rates and success rates then any other content put in this game. It's why people look back on it and ask for something similar every q&a.

That's literally what we have right now. There is an even playing field because doing the content means you get rewarded accordingly. Even playing field doesn't mean you get higher rewards than the content you do justifies. It does get easier to get gear as well, because there's more other people at your gear level for you to do content with.

Not gonna argue against more mage tower-esque content, that was cool. Especially with it being limited to the expansion, so there was a clear time limit and everybody who did it has something cool to show "I was here".

[arkanon]

100% this, i raid in the wr 30-40 range and i dont play 4 hrs on a daily base after the content is clear lol.. which takes about 3-5 weeks every ~5 months those "casuals" here on mmo champ are bads that play the casual card but have 20x /played time of ppl that play in the higher ranks of PVE.

For every person using the term casual as an insult, there is someone hiding behind it instead of just saying "I'm pretty crap at the game, even though I'm online 8 hours a day, 6 days a week".

[Soon-TM]

I guarantee you that there is no actually skilled player that gives 2 shits about casuals getting better loot.

Pretty much. I'm not a hardcore player by any means, just your typical AotC guy who also dabbles in PvP from time to time, which means that I unfortunately seem to belong to the group with the loudest "anti casual" rhetoric. "Effort", "fairness", comparisons to a RL job LOL... Actual elite players (say, top 100 guilds), i.e. those who put the most effort, just don't give a !@#$ about wtf the rest of the playerbase is doing. It's only the "midcore" folks who seem to lose their !@#$ about a casual player (whom they conveniently equate to "bad") getting a 210 piece from time to time. Imagine how insecure you'd have to be to do that.

[ellieg]

Pretty much. I'm not a hardcore player by any means, just your typical AotC guy who also dabbles in PvP from time to time, which means that I unfortunately seem to belong to the group with the loudest "anti casual" rhetoric. "Effort", "fairness", comparisons to a RL job LOL... Actual elite players (say, top 100 guilds), i.e. those who put the most effort, just don't give a !@#$ about wtf the rest of the playerbase is doing. It's only the "midcore" folks who seem to lose their !@#$ about a casual player (whom they conveniently equate to "bad") getting a 210 piece from time to time. Imagine how insecure you'd have to be to do that.

Imagine having to virtue signal this hard as well lol. "I'm not like other gamers (: "

We get it. You hate the ppl you play with. Or are you even subbed?

[Soon-TM]

Imagine having to virtue signal this hard as well lol. "I'm not like other gamers (: "

We get it. You hate the ppl you play with. Or are you even subbed?

I mean, the ad hominem is juicy here. Come with something better, then we'll talk. I'm sure you can

[Tadkins]

The mythic raider dies if he isn't using pvp trinkets... you need to stop posting about an expansion you haven't played.

Trying to determine whether I should be coming back. Doesn't seem that way, as I have a good feeling about how I'm going to be treated if I do.

My memory is hazy but I think at some point you could get a full PvP set and the only stuff locked behind rating was cosmetics, right? I do agree that's probably better. At least in PvP, there's no real need to gate the best gear behind rating. I didn't like the PvP template system of Legion as that was the other extreme but there's no need to have gear be such a huge determining factor in PvP right now.

I used to be able to earn decent PvP sets in random battlegrounds, yep. I was also a big fan of templates when they were a thing. Not sure why they weren't popular. I got to try alts in PvP I otherwise never would have. Never knew a WW monk could be as fun as it was for PvP without them.

[Frozenbro]

getting a 210 piece from time to time. Imagine how insecure you'd have to be to do that.

The "casuals" in this forum advocate to get 226 gear outside the 3 gearing paths tho, so its worth noticing that difference xd at least some of them are.

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Trying to determine whether I should be coming back.

Then decide this first before you keep voicing your uninformed opinion here.

[Something Wicked]

My personal favorite argument that the elitists give is, "you don't need the best gear to do your 'casual' content."

Well, neither do they. Clearly they're already killing the bosses without all the best gear, so what do they need it for? Oh right, to make it easier to kill the bosses so they can get more gear. (Yet somehow, largely due to their limited brain power, they fail to put together that that's the same reason everyone else would like good gear, too; to make the content they do easier. Nevermind their initial hypocrisy, as outlined in the previous statement; "you don't need it <mouthbreathing>." Yeah, neither do you, Einstein.)

[Soon-TM]

Not sure why they weren't popular. I got to try alts in PvP I otherwise never would have. Never knew a WW monk could be as fun as it was for PvP without them.

The concept behind templates was fine, it's just that the implementation was quite messed up, in true Blizzard fashion. Certain specs simply don't work (or perform very poorly) below a certain threshold of secondary stats, and templates made it quite hard to reach them - even impossible, in a few cases, so you felt as if your toon was crippled in PvP when compared to PvE.

My personal favorite argument that the elitists give is, "you don't need the best gear to do your 'casual' content."

Well, neither do they. Clearly they're already killing the bosses without all the best gear, so what do they need it for? Oh right, to make it easier to kill the bosses so they can get more gear. (Yet somehow, largely due to their limited brain power, they fail to put together that that's the same reason everyone else would like good gear, too; to make the content they do easier. Nevermind their initial hypocrisy, as outlined in the previous statement; "you don't need it <mouthbreathing>." Yeah, neither do you, Einstein.)

/bravo, good sir/ma'am, well said.

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The "casuals" in this forum advocate to get 226 gear outside the 3 gearing paths tho, so its worth noticing that difference xd at least some of them are.

Two or three folks ITT aren't representative of casual players at large by any means.

[Frozenbro]

Two or three folks ITT aren't representative of casual players at large by any means.

Indeed, the actual casuals arent even in this forum, so we are back at the starting point, would you look at that.

[Tradu]

My personal favorite argument that the elitists give is, "you don't need the best gear to do your 'casual' content."

Well, neither do they. Clearly they're already killing the bosses without all the best gear, so what do they need it for? Oh right, to make it easier to kill the bosses so they can get more gear. (Yet somehow, largely due to their limited brain power, they fail to put together that that's the same reason everyone else would like good gear, too; to make the content they do easier. Nevermind their initial hypocrisy, as outlined in the previous statement; "you don't need it <mouthbreathing>." Yeah, neither do you, Einstein.)

That's great, you can obviously already get better gear than needed for the content you do. You can do WQs without WQ loot etc. That doesn't mean WQs should ever reward anything even approaching heroic or mythic ilevel loot.

[Soon-TM]

Indeed, the actual casuals arent even in this forum, so we are back at the starting point, would you look at that.

That's why you can't take those "gief 226 for wqs" posters seriously. That doesn't mean that the game isn't quite unfriendly for casual players atm though. Catering to elite players only was perhaps the biggest mistake made in Cata/WoD, and we've all seen what happened.

[Tadkins]

The concept behind templates was fine, it's just that the implementation was quite messed up, in true Blizzard fashion. Certain specs simply don't work (or perform very poorly) below a certain threshold of secondary stats, and templates made it quite hard to reach them - even impossible, in a few cases, so you felt as if your toon was crippled in PvP when compared to PvE.

That's fair. In that case though they really should have just balanced the specs, not scrap the system entirely. It was a great, and fair, system.

[Frozenbro]

That's why you can't take those "gief 226 for wqs" posters seriously.

They are the most angry and noisy ones tho, in this very same thread they demand BiS gear out of single player content xd

[Something Wicked]

That's great, you can obviously already get better gear than needed for the content you do. You can do WQs without WQ loot etc. That doesn't mean WQs should ever reward anything even approaching heroic or mythic ilevel loot.

BZZT! I'm sorry, Tradu, but you completely missed the point. If it makes the content you do easier, it makes the content everyone else does easier, to exactly the same degree. Just because you enjoy one tiny, miniscule aspect of the game more than others, that doesn't mean everyone else does. Your self-centered entitlement notwithstanding.

Now, if you want to make the argument that NO ONE deserves good gear, I'm fine with that, too.

Again, you don't need the gear more than anyone else. You're already killing your little bosses in order to get said gear, right? Right.

[Tradu]

That's fair. In that case though they really should have just balanced the specs, not scrap the system entirely. It was a great, and fair, system.

"Just balance the specs". Yeah, and also "just fix the scaling bugs where lower ilevel loot or unsocketed items are better", right? The system also massively devalued gear progression, which goes directly against how the game should work. There's actual PvP games if you want balanced PvP, WoW is not and never will be that.

[Soon-TM]

That's fair. In that case though they really should have just balanced the specs, not scrap the system entirely. It was a great, and fair, system.

*looks at the current PvP scene*

XD

[Tradu]

BZZT! I'm sorry, Tradu, but you completely missed the point. If it makes the content you do easier, it makes the content everyone else does easier, to exactly the same degree. Just because you enjoy one tiny, miniscule aspect of the game more than others, that doesn't mean everyone else does. Your self-centered entitlement notwithstanding.

Now, if you want to make the argument that NO ONE deserves good gear, I'm fine with that, too.

Again, you don't need the gear more than anyone else. You're already killing your little bosses in order to get said gear, right? Right.

No, I don't need it more. I do, however, deserve it more, because I did harder content, which logically warrants better loot. That's not entitlement, it's literally reward structures 101. Do harder content, get better loot. That doesn't mean harder content should just give more of the best gear, it means if you didn't do the hardest content, you don't get the best gear end of story. If you want that loot, the content is right there for you to do.

[Something Wicked]

No, I don't need it more. I do, however, deserve it more...

Hold up, going to stop you there.

<just laughs hysterically> I can't even...