Claremont Institute: America is Dead, Long Live Real America

[Felya]

They're both relative terms, so you'd do yourself much better to admit there is no objective middle than to propose it lies where you say it does. Relative to Europe, Republicans are definitely far right. Relative to 1950s America, they're crazy left. But enough of defining the center, left, and right to wherever makes you privileged to reject extremism.

No, absolutely not... not the 50s... no fucking way... there is no way anyone in US would buy into ‘anti fascist are the real fascist’ rhetoric of today. Country music legends were Antifa in the 50s...

[Cthulhu 2020]

Hmf...mission statement;

We are a think tank that teaches, writes, and litigates. Since our founding in 1979, our strategy has been to teach the principles of the American Founding to the future thinkers and statesmen of America. Those principles include the foundational doctrines of natural rights and natural law found in the Declaration of Independence; the ingenious political science of the Constitution; and the popular constitutionalism or reverence necessary for the maintenance of free government.

..meh..typical right-wing libertarian bullshit.
/ignore..

"Natural rights" and "natural law" being in the declaration of independence is a load of horse shit obviously. It implies that they are rights and laws established by either nature or some kind of natural force of the world. Which among right wing circles is all too often claimed to be the words of a god. Which taken from a book penned by the hands of men obviously, but men whom many believed were qualified to speak for said deity.

Also, we all too often find that their "natural laws" tend to not include protections for women, monirities, LGBTQ, or other marginalized groups. For some reason, natural law only ever seems to apply to hetero white cisgendered folks who go to sunday school.

[Santti]

"Natural rights" and "natural law" being in the declaration of independence is a load of horse shit obviously. It implies that they are rights and laws established by either nature or some kind of natural force of the world. Which among right wing circles is all too often claimed to be the words of a god. Which taken from a book penned by the hands of men obviously, but men whom many believed were qualified to speak for said deity.

Also, we all too often find that their "natural laws" tend to not include protections for women, monirities, LGBTQ, or other marginalized groups. For some reason, natural law only ever seems to apply to hetero white cisgendered folks who go to sunday school.

Arguing "natural laws" means anti-gay is especially weird, considering how much homosexual behavior there is in the animal kingdom. Unless those animals are unnatural?

[Felya]

Entire Politics forum is all about hate on conservatives, regardless of the op article one the most active shit posters is a mod. I don't partake in your stupid echo chamber of hate, just pointing out.

I know you got infracted for this, but... can you tell me if my reply here was hating on conservatives:

No, absolutely not... not the 50s... no fucking way... there is no way anyone in US would buy into ‘anti fascist are the real fascist’ rhetoric of today. Country music legends were Antifa in the 50s...

Does disagreeing and using country music from the 50s, to prove that people didn’t buy into fascist rhetoric, which includes conservatives... mean I am hating on conservatives? For me to agree to the original statement, implies that just 5 years after WW2, conservatives were so favorable to fascism, that they make current conservatives seem like liberals.

Which of these two points of view is more favorable to conservatives? The ludicrous notion that 5 years post WW2 America, we would support fascist to such an extreme, people marching and screaming “blood for soil” seem like liberals... or... the fact that it’s ludicrous to assert support for extreme right, just 5 years after the war ended... 5 years after concentration camps were exposed...

From my perspective, what I am saying is a hell of a lot more favorable to conservatives...

[Antipathy1018]

How does restricting voting hours protect integrity?

If you are talking about Georgia's new law you might want to reconsider after reading this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...M5Ud-j8YDXdxxQ

TL;DR version is that Georgia's new voting law does not restrict voting hours.

If you were referencing something else please clarify.

[Machismo]

If you are talking about Georgia's new law you might want to reconsider after reading this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...M5Ud-j8YDXdxxQ

TL;DR version is that Georgia's new voting law does not restrict voting hours.

If you were referencing something else please clarify.

Multiple states are seeking to restrict voting days/hours.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/u...annotated.html

"There won’t just be fewer drop boxes. Instead of 24-hour access outdoors, the boxes must be placed indoors at government buildings and early-voting sites and will thus be unavailable for voters to drop off their ballots during evenings and other nonbusiness hours."

"Page 72: Poll hours at a precinct may be extended only by order of a judge of the superior court of the county in which the precinct is located upon good cause shown by clear and convincing evidence that persons were unable to vote at that precinct during a specific period or periods of time. Poll hours shall not be extended longer than the total amount of time during which persons were unable to vote at such precinct. Any order extending poll hours at a precinct beyond 9 p.m. shall be by written order with specific findings of fact supporting such extension."

"Voting shall be conducted d̶u̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶o̶r̶m̶a̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶s̶i̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ beginning at 9 a.m. and ending at 5 p.m. on weekdays, other than observed state holidays, during such period and shall be conducted on the second S̶a̶t̶u̶r̶d̶a̶y̶ and third Saturdays during the hours of 9 a.m. through 5 p.m. and, if the registrar or absentee ballot clerk so chooses, the second Sunday, the third Sunday, or both the second and third Sundays prior to a primary or election during the hours o̶f̶ ̶9̶ ̶a̶.̶m̶.̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶4̶ ̶p̶.̶m̶.̶ determined by the registrar or absentee ballot clerk, but no longer than 7 a.m. through 7 p.m.

Page 60: Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶u̶n̶i̶c̶i̶p̶a̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ the registrars may extend the hours for voting b̶e̶y̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶b̶u̶s̶i̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ to permit advance voting from 7 a.m. until 7 p.m. and may provide for additional voting locations … to suit the needs of the electors of the jurisdiction at their option; provided, however, that voting shall occur only on the days specified in this paragraph and counties and municipalities shall not be authorized to conduct advance voting on any other days."

Yeah, it's a shame the GOP doesn't want people to vote.

Enjoy!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...licans-states/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...re-escalating/

[Ivanstone]

From my perspective, what I am saying is a hell of a lot more favorable to conservatives...

You can't compare 50s conservatism to today.

In the 50s a social conservative might be a Republican or a Democrat. Since the late 60s social conservatives are mostly Republican.

[Sunseeker]

There's an odd glibness to the amount that I read before my brain was reduced to a puddle of mush and I was tempted to vote 3rd party.

It reads a lot like someone who's been writing satire and doing a mighty fine job of it, everyone's buying what he's selling and he's just cranking up the volume, but now he's finally reached the point where it's so gosh-darned funny he can't stop laughing every other sentence about just how plum stupid everyone is.

[Antipathy1018]

Multiple states are seeking to restrict voting days/hours.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/u...annotated.html

"There won’t just be fewer drop boxes. Instead of 24-hour access outdoors, the boxes must be placed indoors at government buildings and early-voting sites and will thus be unavailable for voters to drop off their ballots during evenings and other nonbusiness hours."

"Page 72: Poll hours at a precinct may be extended only by order of a judge of the superior court of the county in which the precinct is located upon good cause shown by clear and convincing evidence that persons were unable to vote at that precinct during a specific period or periods of time. Poll hours shall not be extended longer than the total amount of time during which persons were unable to vote at such precinct. Any order extending poll hours at a precinct beyond 9 p.m. shall be by written order with specific findings of fact supporting such extension."

"Voting shall be conducted d̶u̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶o̶r̶m̶a̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶s̶i̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ beginning at 9 a.m. and ending at 5 p.m. on weekdays, other than observed state holidays, during such period and shall be conducted on the second S̶a̶t̶u̶r̶d̶a̶y̶ and third Saturdays during the hours of 9 a.m. through 5 p.m. and, if the registrar or absentee ballot clerk so chooses, the second Sunday, the third Sunday, or both the second and third Sundays prior to a primary or election during the hours o̶f̶ ̶9̶ ̶a̶.̶m̶.̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶4̶ ̶p̶.̶m̶.̶ determined by the registrar or absentee ballot clerk, but no longer than 7 a.m. through 7 p.m.

Page 60: Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶u̶n̶i̶c̶i̶p̶a̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ the registrars may extend the hours for voting b̶e̶y̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶b̶u̶s̶i̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ to permit advance voting from 7 a.m. until 7 p.m. and may provide for additional voting locations … to suit the needs of the electors of the jurisdiction at their option; provided, however, that voting shall occur only on the days specified in this paragraph and counties and municipalities shall not be authorized to conduct advance voting on any other days."

Yeah, it's a shame the GOP doesn't want people to vote.

Enjoy!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...licans-states/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...re-escalating/

Thank you for clarifying no need to be snippy at the end there when you are the one who made a broad sweeping general statement and I asked for clarification since Georgia has been the main focus the last few days concerning voting hours. I am not a mind reader you know.

[Machismo]

Thank you for clarifying no need to be snippy at the end there when you are the one who made a broad sweeping general statement and I asked for clarification since Georgia has been the main focus the last few days concerning voting hours. I am not a mind reader you know.

Even Georgia wants to limit hours, specifically with absentee and mail-in ballots.

And yes, it is a damn shame that the GOP is so determined to prevent people from voting.

[Antipathy1018]

Even Georgia wants to limit hours, specifically with absentee and mail-in ballots.

And yes, it is a damn shame that the GOP is so determined to prevent people from voting.

Can you elaborate? As far as I can recall absentee voting is done by mail so not sure how voting hours apply. I always have voted in person and my elder family in California vote by mail, which I always thought was absentee voting since they didn't go in person.

[Machismo]

Can you elaborate? As far as I can recall absentee voting is done by mail so not sure how voting hours apply. I always have voted in person and my elder family in California vote by mail, which I always thought was absentee voting since they didn't go in person.

It was already provided.

They are specifically limiting the locations and hours of voting dropboxes, as has been shown.

[downnola]

It was already provided.

They are specifically limiting the locations and hours of voting dropboxes, as has been shown.

Here's the part where he plays dumb and acts like that doesn't limit how and when people can vote.



https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...dup-march-2021

55 restrictive bills in 24 states moving through legislatures. Georgia is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Antipathy1018]

It was already provided.

They are specifically limiting the locations and hours of voting dropboxes, as has been shown.

From what you linked it is not clear if absentee voting can only be turned in at voting boxes or if people can just put them in the mail to be sent in and counted.

Reading about voting boxes it looks like their intended purpose is for those that either get their absentee ballots late due to postal delays or those who put off filling them out till the last minute and/or forgot about it and can't mail them in b/c they would not arrive in time to be counted. It looks like in most states absentee ballots are sent out to voters weeks before an election.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the part where he plays dumb and acts like that doesn't limit how and when people can vote.



https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...dup-march-2021

55 restrictive bills in 24 states moving through legislatures. Georgia is just the tip of the iceberg.

Well given the only absentee voting I am familiar with is California and have seen my parents and grandmother vote that way for over 2 decades yeah I don't know much about other states. I only know that what I have seen is them getting there ballots weeks before an election and typically filling them out and mailing them off either the same day or the day after. You are trying to paint me as disingenuous on this topic but I have no issues with mail in voting/absentee voting since I have seen it work for years.

[Machismo]

From what you linked it is not clear if absentee voting can only be turned in at voting boxes or if people can just put them in the mail to be sent in and counted.

Reading about voting boxes it looks like their intended purpose is for those that either get their absentee ballots late due to postal delays or those who put off filling them out till the last minute and/or forgot about it and can't mail them in b/c they would not arrive in time to be counted. It looks like in most states absentee ballots are sent out to voters weeks before an election.

- - - Updated - - -



Well given the only absentee voting I am familiar with is California and have seen my parents and grandmother vote that way for over 2 decades yeah I don't know much about other states. I only know that what I have seen is them getting there ballots weeks before an election and typically filling them out and mailing them off either the same day or the day after. You are trying to paint me as disingenuous on this topic but I have no issues with mail in voting/absentee voting since I have seen it work for years.

I never said it could ONLY be done that way, they are simply limiting it.

the evidence has been provided, feel free to keep carrying water for those who are trying to limit voting.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the part where he plays dumb and acts like that doesn't limit how and when people can vote.



https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...dup-march-2021

55 restrictive bills in 24 states moving through legislatures. Georgia is just the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah, this is a standard practice, where they try and argue this is about "integrity," when it's really just an attempt to make things more difficult for no other reason, than to limit the number of people who do it.

[Wilfire]

TLDR: Authoritarian conservatives are butthurt that they lost the culture war.

Before making such bold claims let's wait a decade or two and see where this liberal "do as you will" approach will lead.

[Machismo]

Before making such bold claims let's wait a decade or two and see where this liberal "do as you will" approach will lead.

So, you want to go back to the days when gay marriage was illegal?

[Antipathy1018]

I never said it could ONLY be done that way, they are simply limiting it.

the evidence has been provided, feel free to keep carrying water for those who are trying to limit voting.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, this is a standard practice, where they try and argue this is about "integrity," when it's really just an attempt to make things more difficult for no other reason, than to limit the number of people who do it.

Why are you projecting this crap onto me? Where have I once said anything about "try and argue this is about "integrity,""?

You made a broad statement about limiting voting hours. I pointed out if you were talking about Georgia, and asked for clarification. You gave it and since I am not very familiar about mail in voting I again asked a question and also looked into it myself.

All I have been doing is asking questions and pointed out 1 thing about in person voting in Georgia, and suddenly I am some disingenuous far-right nut in some peoples eyes?

WTH is wrong with you and downnola?

Edit: How did trying to better inform one's self through discussion turn into the person asking a question "carrying water for anti-voting"?

[Wilfire]

So, you want to go back to the days when gay marriage was illegal?

I want to go back to the days when people didn't give a shit about others' sexual preferences.

[Machismo]

Why are you projecting this crap onto me? Where have I once said anything about "try and argue this is about "integrity,""?

You made a broad statement about limiting voting hours. I pointed out if you were talking about Georgia, and asked for clarification. You gave it and since I am not very familiar about mail in voting I again asked a question and also looked into it myself.

All I have been doing is asking questions and pointed out 1 thing about in person voting in Georgia, and suddenly I am some disingenuous far-right nut in some peoples eyes?

WTH is wrong with you and downnola?

You keep moving goalposts, we've seen this argument before... many times.

I pointed out how hours are being limited and reduced, and you chose to move goalposts and build a straw man.

From what you linked it is not clear if absentee voting can only be turned in at voting boxes or if people can just put them in the mail to be sent in and counted.

Reading about voting boxes it looks like their intended purpose is for those that either get their absentee ballots late due to postal delays or those who put off filling them out till the last minute and/or forgot about it and can't mail them in b/c they would not arrive in time to be counted. It looks like in most states absentee ballots are sent out to voters weeks before an election.

- - - Updated - - -

Well given the only absentee voting I am familiar with is California and have seen my parents and grandmother vote that way for over 2 decades yeah I don't know much about other states. I only know that what I have seen is them getting there ballots weeks before an election and typically filling them out and mailing them off either the same day or the day after. You are trying to paint me as disingenuous on this topic but I have no issues with mail in voting/absentee voting since I have seen it work for years.

See how that works?

They are objectively limiting hours for some types of voting. Enjoy!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I want to go back to the days when people didn't give a shit about others' sexual preferences.

When exactly was that?

I'm curious, because I'm old as shit, and it has always been something a large segment of society "gave a shit about."