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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    it was not even the gear, it stacked backluck protection for legos we rushed lfr every fucking week after 7.2 lego changes to "farm" 1 lego a week until the whole raid had the bis ones. It was by far the worst gearing design to date (and dont get me started with the Maw+2 grinds 10hrs for 2 weeks)
    Oh i was talking about BFA gearing before corruption, cause that happened to us, but yeah i remember early Legion also with random leggos, doing Emerald Nightmare without your bis leggo was so fking terrible, what a piece of shit of expansion early on, it was only later with further patches that they realized "oh, we are fucking up".

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    I mean,
    real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
    while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
    Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
    Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
    What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
    It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
    Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....
    They are insecure human beings. They have not much going on in the real life and therefore, place too much value on their in game accomplishments. As a result, anyone they deem not worth if such rewards diminish their virtual standing and brings their in game life value more in line with their perceived real life value.

    They like to throw around arguments like they didn't do the content to earn it(old TF days), completely ignoring by the time the average player got the full mythic equivalent ilvl, they would have been done raiding with far better ilvl awaiting the new patch. Or, they don't need that level if gear for what they do. Ignoring that people like to continue to get more powerful over time and that most mythic raiders don't need as high ilvl gear most of them have either.

  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    We don't have resilience anymore so we can't know for sure. I just remember it making a huge difference back in the day. It was basically mandatory.
    It was. But huge ilvl differences mattered even with resilience on the table.

    Anyways nowadays you would be gibbed anyways in rbgs by ppl with high ilvl WITH resilience, so I’m not so sure it would make any difference in your situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    my guild clears 2x myhtic in 3hrs x2 a week thats less time spend in a week than 90% of you "Casuals" and we dont even do M+ cuz we all in full bis gear (unless we push some keys on a push week)

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    it was not even the gear, it stacked backluck protection for legos we rushed lfr every fucking week after 7.2 lego changes to "farm" 1 lego a week until the whole raid had the bis ones. It was by far the worst gearing design to date (and dont get me started with the Maw+2 grinds 10hrs for 2 weeks)
    My guild does that too (not in hardcore way, I think they are 5/10 on mythic CN or so).

    Point is that, surprise, time matters ALSO for the session you can afford. For example I can play roughly 10 hours per week but in short sessions of 1-1,5 hours max. I couldn’t raid even if I would, last time I had 3+ hours in a row to constantly put in game was probably during Cataclysm.

    This week I wanted to push a little my rio due to “forgiving” affixes but despite Easter holidays I only managed to run 3 M+ so far, 2 of which with timer failed. Yesterday I played for 45 minutes, today I didn’t even have the time to login.

    Everything is easier when you can play when you want for the time you want but for many of us that is not an option.

    Of course I’m not the type of guy that says “the game should cater my type of playstyle also”, but when you say something is “easy” and ppl is “bad”, please think about your /played before pressing the “Post quick reply” button.

  4. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It was. But huge ilvl differences mattered even with resilience on the table.

    Anyways nowadays you would be gibbed anyways in rbgs by ppl with high ilvl WITH resilience, so I’m not so sure it would make any difference in your situation.
    Resilience didn't increase your damage done, just reduced your damage taken in PvP. Two players with a good amount of resilience (acquired both at the highest end of rated PvP and at honor levels at the time) aren't going to just instagib each other. So even if my vengeful rogue encountered a brutal rogue, it wasn't going to be some quick two-shot on the brutal rogue's part. I could fight him a bit, I could escape, I could stay and die and perhaps survive long enough to learn a cool rogue trick...there were plenty of options.

    Nowadays it isn't like that. I'm going to get instagibbed as a 200 player by 226 players. I don't have the choice as a 200 player to fight other 200 players. Theres no PvP stat or ilvl bracket to protect me. There's no real way around that. So where would I be able to find the fun in sitting at the graveyard all game?

    I imagine folks would sing a different tune if their +5 mythic plus boss randomly turned into a +15 one in the middle of their run. That is what it is like for PvP.

  5. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Resilience didn't increase your damage done, just reduced your damage taken in PvP. Two players with a good amount of resilience (acquired both at the highest end of rated PvP and at honor levels at the time) aren't going to just instagib each other. So even if my vengeful rogue encountered a brutal rogue, it wasn't going to be some quick two-shot on the brutal rogue's part. I could fight him a bit, I could escape, I could stay and die and perhaps survive long enough to learn a cool rogue trick...there were plenty of options.

    Nowadays it isn't like that. I'm going to get instagibbed as a 200 player by 226 players. I don't have the choice as a 200 player to fight other 200 players. Theres no PvP stat or ilvl bracket to protect me. There's no real way around that. So where would I be able to find the fun in sitting at the graveyard all game?

    I imagine folks would sing a different tune if their +5 mythic plus boss randomly turned into a +15 one in the middle of their run. That is what it is like for PvP.
    I’m not sure the comparison fits, mainly because rbgs never had brackets based on ilvls.

    I basically only pvped in the period from end TBC to end of Cataclysm and I remembered that despite resilience I was gibbed anyways, especially when I had low level gear and especially because unless you are a rogue or a feral Druid, rbgs have rarely 1v1 situations. Maybe I was 4-5 shotted instead of bishotted, but chances to win against VERY higher ilvl ppl were low also back then. Maybe rogues, used to basically take ppl hero-zero by permastunning everything, had a different perception on survivability. If you are searching for a “fair” fight, at least in the number of players vs players, random arenas are better than random bgs.

  6. #926
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Why "casual player" (often used as an umbrella term about skill, when it originally was only about playtime) got so mad about no getting the best loot ?

    So far in this thread they are only people who think the deserve the best gear without doing the content giving it, either arguing about how unfair the situation is or imagining some "hardcore players" somehow blocking them out of the content.
    Nobody who are 226 gives a fuck about other's gear, and their are PLENTY of casual who have the time to do 1 to 4 +15 (literally asking a maximum of 43minutes each for the longest dungeon).

    The only question is why don't you also try to do it instead of crying on a forum for Blizzard to give you stuff ? It's a freakin video game for god's sake. Stop arguing so much about it online and play it, or don't if you don't like it.
    Last edited by Ealyssa; 2021-04-02 at 10:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I’m not sure the comparison fits, mainly because rbgs never had brackets based on ilvls.

    I basically only pvped in the period from end TBC to end of Cataclysm and I remembered that despite resilience I was gibbed anyways, especially when I had low level gear and especially because unless you are a rogue or a feral Druid, rbgs have rarely 1v1 situations. Maybe I was 4-5 shotted instead of bishotted, but chances to win against VERY higher ilvl ppl were low also back then. Maybe rogues, used to basically take ppl hero-zero by permastunning everything, had a different perception on survivability. If you are searching for a “fair” fight, at least in the number of players vs players, random arenas are better than random bgs.
    RBGs, no, but I don't think it would be a bad thing for random BGs.

    Folks don't seem to realize that rated PvP is an entirely different beast. I used to have lots of fun in random BGs and it was where I spent most of my gametime. Nothing like coming home from work on a Friday night, grabbing dinner and a drink, and playing randoms until it was time for bed. Meanwhile with rated, my experiences in attempting them a long time ago were pretty bad. Arenas require you to have friends that you can coordinate with, the ability to coordinate with them, and the ability to time your CCs and whatnot to a pinpoint precise level. It gave me an extreme amount of stress trying to play those to the point where I got actual chest and lower body pains from it during close battles, and I was happy when we had a system that finally let me avoid them.

    RBGs on paper sounded like an ideal solution but those tend to be pretty exclusive. I could never seem to get into them, and I'd like to because I still want to earn that mage tower skin that requires 10 wins.

    You're correct about the class thing, my perspective might have been different back in the day with a rogue, because they were (and maybe still are) just nuts in PvP and a great choice for a solo PvPer. But as I've found in the most recent years of playing WoW, being a solo caster queuing for a random alone is not a fun experience. And essentially without gear options, a caster is going to pretty much do nothing but die unless they have support, and you don't get that without friends queuing with you. I did find a niche as an arcane mage, which has a ton of options for escaping bad fights, but it's still depressing when you realize you spend most of your games just running until you get into a fight where people are actually backing you up.

    I don't know. The most recent years of WoW just seems to be nothing but an excercise in depression and failure.

  8. #928
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    They are insecure human beings. They have not much going on in the real life and therefore, place too much value on their in game accomplishments. As a result, anyone they deem not worth if such rewards diminish their virtual standing and brings their in game life value more in line with their perceived real life value.

    They like to throw around arguments like they didn't do the content to earn it(old TF days), completely ignoring by the time the average player got the full mythic equivalent ilvl, they would have been done raiding with far better ilvl awaiting the new patch. Or, they don't need that level if gear for what they do. Ignoring that people like to continue to get more powerful over time and that most mythic raiders don't need as high ilvl gear most of them have either.
    Pretty much what I've been saying as well. Sadly, they can't seem to grasp it no matter what your approach to the topic is.

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    RBGs, no, but I don't think it would be a bad thing for random BGs.

    Folks don't seem to realize that rated PvP is an entirely different beast. I used to have lots of fun in random BGs and it was where I spent most of my gametime. Nothing like coming home from work on a Friday night, grabbing dinner and a drink, and playing randoms until it was time for bed. Meanwhile with rated, my experiences in attempting them a long time ago were pretty bad. Arenas require you to have friends that you can coordinate with, the ability to coordinate with them, and the ability to time your CCs and whatnot to a pinpoint precise level. It gave me an extreme amount of stress trying to play those to the point where I got actual chest and lower body pains from it during close battles, and I was happy when we had a system that finally let me avoid them.

    RBGs on paper sounded like an ideal solution but those tend to be pretty exclusive. I could never seem to get into them, and I'd like to because I still want to earn that mage tower skin that requires 10 wins.

    You're correct about the class thing, my perspective might have been different back in the day with a rogue, because they were (and maybe still are) just nuts in PvP and a great choice for a solo PvPer. But as I've found in the most recent years of playing WoW, being a solo caster queuing for a random alone is not a fun experience. And essentially without gear options, a caster is going to pretty much do nothing but die unless they have support, and you don't get that without friends queuing with you. I did find a niche as an arcane mage, which has a ton of options for escaping bad fights, but it's still depressing when you realize you spend most of your games just running until you get into a fight where people are actually backing you up.

    I don't know. The most recent years of WoW just seems to be nothing but an excercise in depression and failure.
    When I speak about rbgs I always refer to random bgs. I don’t even calculate rated bgs, they are almost as toxic as M+.

    I also understand rogue,’s choice for solo PvP, it’s fun enough.

    But before depressing, why don’t you give a try anyways? Maybe the situation is not as bad as you think.

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    When I speak about rbgs I always refer to random bgs. I don’t even calculate rated bgs, they are almost as toxic as M+.

    I also understand rogue,’s choice for solo PvP, it’s fun enough.

    But before depressing, why don’t you give a try anyways? Maybe the situation is not as bad as you think.
    Oh lols. Anytime I hear "RBG" it's always in the context of rated battlegrounds.

    But yup my tastes have just changed over the years and I originally wanted to come back to the game as a fresh reroll to a warlock. I like the "dark and sinister" spellcaster theme. I'm currently playing a necromancer in P99 EQ right now for that reason. But I feel like it's going to have an even more painful time as someone with little gear and no friends in random battlegrounds; all the downsides of a caster with none of the escape methods.

    Maybe I'm wrong though, and maybe things got better for warlocks since Legion/BfA. I just remember them being food to every melee that even looked at them.

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Oh lols. Anytime I hear "RBG" it's always in the context of rated battlegrounds.

    But yup my tastes have just changed over the years and I originally wanted to come back to the game as a fresh reroll to a warlock. I like the "dark and sinister" spellcaster theme. I'm currently playing a necromancer in P99 EQ right now for that reason. But I feel like it's going to have an even more painful time as someone with little gear and no friends in random battlegrounds; all the downsides of a caster with none of the escape methods.

    Maybe I'm wrong though, and maybe things got better for warlocks since Legion/BfA. I just remember them being food to every melee that even looked at them.
    I can understand the “worries” but if you don’t try you’ll never know.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    BC and WotLK gave me the opportunity to earn resilience gear so I had the opportunity to fight back. Even late Vanilla had very good honor gear. I didn't feel as hopeless then as I do now.
    the same Wrath in which i oneshoted full resist pvp geared ppl with 1 lavaburst? or the same bc i oneshoted ppl with one roflcopter as MS warr?
    I.O BFA Season 3


  13. #933
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Currently not subbed due to computer problems so my main is still at 50. Just going by the system as read from afar. Folks here seem to think that you can't know how the state of the game is unless you are playing with a sub lols. Videos, fansites and forums do exist.

    But anyway the system seems to ooze nothing but contempt from the Blizz devs for those not in organized content. And as clear from this thread the community doesn't have a high opinion of people like me either. So it makes me wonder if I really should come back once my computer is fixed.

    The difference between 200 and 226 seems pretty big and it probably would just get me instagibbed in BGs. How would someone like me be able to find that fun? 40 plus pages of asking this question and still no answer.
    What are these 226 players doing in BGs? I mean, you might find one or two every once in a while, but BGs are mostly full of people getting conq for their alts and stuff atm

  14. #934
    Everyone who's getting constantly shat on by the elitists should honestly just move over to FFXIV. It's a game that respects its casual majority, even caters to them. Wow thinks that it can get by on minmaxers alone so everyone else should just leave and enjoy a much more pleasant community and a more satisfying progression somewhere else.

  15. #935
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    snip
    I love how it took a few pages more to bring this into the equation, it always appears.

    I will give the answer i have always given to this completely retarded argument.

    Unless you have 3 kids and make 6 figures by the age of 25, there is no excuse as to why you are getting outplayed by pixels because you lack the reflexes to do basic eye coordination and hand movement.

    Better players do not care about anyone outside their own circle, they dont care what you are doing, you are literally ants in a time of spaceship travel for them.

    The people that complain about this matter, are literally the people that try to escape their ant hole and get stuck because they simply cant improve for whatever actual reason.

    The only people to blame is literally the people you are defending, you guys are creating your own endless cesspool of badness, but somehow the people that dont even care if you are playing or not are at fault.

    I aint even a top player, i just have my own circle of 15-30 half-decent players to get the things i need to be done whenever i want, AoTC or KSM.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    the same Wrath in which i oneshoted full resist pvp geared ppl with 1 lavaburst? or the same bc i oneshoted ppl with one roflcopter as MS warr?
    No man, his own experience only matters, dont spew facts.

    Paladins/DKs globaling people with Shadowmourne for 10 months in end WOTLK, never existed.

    Tier 3 Blacksmith Weapons in S1/S2 TBC, 2 shotting everyone didnt exist, and so on.

    Hunter almost 1 shotting everyone with Raptor Strike with the agility Axe in Season 3, didnt exist also, only his experience where he magically survived against this overgeared players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    What are these 226 players doing in BGs? I mean, you might find one or two every once in a while, but BGs are mostly full of people getting conq for their alts and stuff atm
    You are talking to a guy that hasnt played SL and is basing his opinions about the crying of the bad players of forums, i mean, what else do you need to know his opinion is thinner than air about the game?

    There arent many 226 players in BGs, maybe 1 every third bg hovering near 220, there is like a 5-10% of 210s and the rest is literally undergeared alts, farming honor.

    Problem is those 1-2 more geared usually make the game annoying, combined with the usual lack of healers

    Source: Literally did a lot of of them in a row for the trinket on my Warlock, (Friends somehow agreed to join, its fun when we are 3-4 xD) 95% of the people met were hovering anywhere between 26-32kHP, with Stamina buff.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-04-02 at 11:37 PM.

  16. #936
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    What are these 226 players doing in BGs? I mean, you might find one or two every once in a while, but BGs are mostly full of people getting conq for their alts and stuff atm
    I'm sure there are lots of them. Half the appeal of being able to gear up in max level content is to show off to the lesser geared and crush them with it, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Everyone who's getting constantly shat on by the elitists should honestly just move over to FFXIV. It's a game that respects its casual majority, even caters to them. Wow thinks that it can get by on minmaxers alone so everyone else should just leave and enjoy a much more pleasant community and a more satisfying progression somewhere else.
    Strongly considering that. I've talked to some folks here and FFXIV sounds very appealing.

    My only complaint is the lack of a truly "dark" class in that game. Everything just seems rather light and fluffy. I wanted to play a warlock in WoW and I'm currently playing a necromancer in EQ, to give you an idea of what I want out of a character. xD

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I'm sure there are lots of them. Half the appeal of being able to gear up in max level content is to show off to the lesser geared and crush them with it, right?
    You arent sure about anything, you dont play the game, stop lying its actually super sad xd just leave and play FFXIV, the audacity of people that perma post on the forum of a game they dont even play and start to claim stuff they dont even know based on their absolutely nonexistant experience, unreal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    There arent many 226 players in BGs, maybe 1 every third bg hovering near 220, there is like a 5-10% of 210s and the rest is literally undergeared alts, farming honor.
    Most of the 226 people that play pve just raid log now, and the 226 pvpers either do arenas or play rated bgs, hes so full of shit its hilarious.

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    lol you get literally 203 ilvl loot form a calling bag and from table missons which is equal to normal mode raiding gear why do oyu need better gear? and what for? i cleared hc with ma guild being ~190 ilvl Week one same for +14-15 in time keys done with 195-200 ilvl week one of M+ so you have the same tools i had to clear the content hell we even did the first 4 Mythic bosses with ~205ilvl
    Yeah I don't really believe you. Also, I'd love to know where you were getting this 203 gear because the only time I got high ilvl loot was from the timewalking weekly quests outside of raiding.

  19. #939
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Yeah I don't really believe you.
    This was normal for high end HoF guilds xd i know its hard to believe for people that need to outgear the content every expansion, but its true.

  20. #940
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Yeah I don't really believe you. Also, I'd love to know where you were getting this 203 gear because the only time I got high ilvl loot was from the timewalking weekly quests outside of raiding.
    Literally got a 203 sword yesterday from the calling, on my 199 ilvl Warlock, its useless cause i am already wearing higher.

    Generally, there is a thing called Renown, than when you reach higher, and it happens automatically now with any content + campaign, everything scales to 200 ilvl so yeah.

    But its easier to be clueless and calling everyone a liar.

    And secondary, people dont need to overgear the content to do the free-loot ones, basically everything up to apart from, sometimes AoTC boss, and half-deeper of Mythic raid, the rest is supposed to be cleared "While gearing", not "5 months after of vault loots".

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