Anti self-harm mechanics in WoW

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Blizzard can't win in this regard. I remember when they tried limiting the amount of dailies you could do a day, people didn't like that, that got removed eventually but considering how controversial dailies are...well...... I'm not even sure the community overall knows what it wants.

[Relapses]

I'm not even sure the community overall knows what it wants.

Incorrect. We know exactly what we want. It's always the opposite of whatever the devs think is a good idea.

[darkmankill1]

I thought this was going to be about warlocks Lifetap ability...

[potis]

The WOD era stripping of reforge, enchanting, gems, etc to cut down on grinding and requiring addons

More like, the addon showed the flaw in the system (counting and math wise) and the addon made the whole concept redundant as it should have been.

I mean, i remember the first gear levels of reforge, everything was hit/expertise caps, what was the point again.

People just like to complain, but most changes make sense as the game evolves (If people arent butthurt and clueless about everything), changes that dont make sense is, why are WQs from "Kill 1 elite" went to "Do an irrelevant thing that now takes 500% more time than Legion/BFA".

[Ohvul]

There's an issue with people unable to control themselves and playing 16 hours in a row if it means getting a 0.05% advantage over someone else.
You can argue that the devs have a moral imperative to not enable such behaviours

Stupid people die more each day, who are you to argue the terms on the world as to what safety railings have to be pre-installed.

[Gaidax]

Stupid people die more each day, who are you to argue the terms on the world as to what safety railings have to be pre-installed.

I mean... the community decreed they don't want limitless grind and Blizz obliged.

Some outliers would sure love to have their 16 hours sessions, but that does not appear to be what the bulk actually wants.

If it would be otherwise, you'd see it reflected ingame.

[Relapses]

More like, the addon showed the flaw in the system (counting and math wise) and the addon made the whole concept redundant as it should have been.

I mean, i remember the first gear levels of reforge, everything was hit/expertise caps, what was the point again.

People just like to complain, but most changes make sense as the game evolves (If people arent butthurt and clueless about everything), changes that dont make sense is, why are WQs from "Kill 1 elite" went to "Do an irrelevant thing that now takes 500% more time than Legion/BFA".

Wait, your immersion isn't increased when your WQ has 12 steps instead of 1?



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I mean... the community decreed they don't want limitless grind and Blizz obliged.

Some outliers would sure love to have their 16 hours sessions, but that does not appear to be what the bulk actually wants.

If it would be otherwise, you'd see it reflected ingame.

The problem isn't the grinds. It's the grinds that compel other people to grind. Early Legion AP is the best example in recent memory. If your guild's wiping at 3% on Krosus and only half the guild has their 54-point artifact trait, you're left with two kinda shitty options: Bench the players without it (kek) or instill some good ol fashioned Korean advice on the rest of your raiders... just play betterer. I don't blame Blizzard for steering clear of these kinds of systems.

(Personal aside, my guild had a fucking Google doc with everybody's AP levels on it and you were quietly admonished by everybody else if you fell behind the curve. Fuck that shit.)

[Gaidax]

The problem isn't the grinds. It's the grinds that compel other people to grind. Early Legion AP is the best example in recent memory. If your guild's wiping at 3% on Krosus and only half the guild has their 54-point artifact trait, you're left with two options: Bench the players without it (kek) or instill some good ol fashioned Korean advice on the rest of your raiders... just play betterer.

I'd say I should have added word "power" in the "don't want limitless grind". It was the intent of the post.

Ultimately, yes people don't really like being "forced" into slaving away to keep up with "requirements" they set in their minds. Yes, it's completely down to said people, but as AP showed - something that reasonable person would deduce as waste of time (couple more levels for dozens of hours of incessant grind), for too many players became necessity.

Then of course it came back at Blizz like boomerang. Their intent was to make it so people won't bother above certain reasonable level, but as usual community perverts these things into "meta" or whatever fancy word. So they end up having to put hard stop to that then.

[potis]

Wait, your immersion isn't increased when your WQ has 12 steps instead of 1?

I still dont get their logic on that change, SL is the perfect raid logging/alt expansion for myself after the 2 pointless AP grinding ones, and they do those WQ changes and i cba even doing a calling for the conduit on my 4th alt, poor warlock running around with 184s

[Relapses]

I still dont get their logic on that change, SL is the perfect raid logging/alt expansion for myself after the 2 pointless AP grinding ones, and they do those WQ changes and i cba even doing a calling for the conduit on my 4th alt, poor warlock running around with 184s

Blizzard does not want people raid logging because the more time you spend in the game the more likely you'll psychologically rationalize buying any one of their innumerable value added services.

(And as cynical as the above take is, it fucking works.)

[cparle87]

They're absolutely hypocritical when it comes to shit like this, just look at how they've designed the core reward structures of the past several expansions and SL.

Play an hour or two a day for the largest immediate rewards, then if you want grind out extra percents here and there?

[potis]

Blizzard does not want people raid logging because the more time you spend in the game the more likely you'll psychologically rationalize buying any one of their innumerable value added services.

(And as cynical as the above take is, it fucking works.)

I know the psychological aspect of seducing the dum dums to buy more pixels, dont worry.

I know it also works 100% so its logical they are doing it for the majority, every game is doing it, people are not bright.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Play an hour or two a day for the largest immediate rewards, then if you want grind out extra percents here and there?

Yeah, from WotLK through MoP it was spend 20-30 minutes a day for those same rewards. Blizzard then introduced WQs and turned daily hubs from 10-20 minute affairs into 30-45 minute grinds that required you to go all over the damn map on a ground mount. I liked when it required less time per character, because then I could enjoy the fun content (raiding) on more classes, because the amount of grind needed prior to raiding was short.

There wasn't much of a time where I liked WoW outside of raiding, so when more stuff was added outside of raiding it just added to a list of what were functionally chores to me. I don't want chores in a game I'm playing for entertainment.

[Gaidax]

I know the psychological aspect of seducing the dum dums to buy more pixels, dont worry.

I know it also works 100% so its logical they are doing it for the majority, every game is doing it, people are not bright.

Well I mean, as I see it - WoW is a hobby. I don't mind tossing a few dozens of bucks at Blizz every now and then. I have RL friends with MUCH more expensive hobbies like poker and shit, so I'm chill with spending the little I do on WoW for odd thing I want.

It's really nothing to do with dumdums, you work, get paid and spend a small fraction of that on what you like. I down more in a single full evening date than what I do in 2-3 months in WoW.

[Relapses]

I know the psychological aspect of seducing the dum dums to buy more pixels, dont worry.

I know it also works 100% so its logical they are doing it for the majority, every game is doing it, people are not bright.

I don't think being conditioned to purchase a value-added service is a trait exclusive to stupid people. These services obviously have value to the people buying them; it's just far more likely to be rationalized by somebody who spends 40 hours a week playing the game than somebody who only plays it for 6-8. This is kinda getting into murky waters because the morality of these practices is ambiguous at best; I understand the why behind Blizzard's design decisions but at some point players get fed up with it and demand a change. And since Blizzard has already reinvented the wheel so many times in its 16-year life cycle it seems like most people are just latching onto whichever expansion they liked best and demanding the developers just make it like that again. That's another discussion for another thread, though.

[potis]

Well I mean, as I see it - WoW is a hobby. I don't mind tossing a few dozens of bucks at Blizz every now and then. I have RL friends with MUCH more expensive hobbies like poker and shit, so I'm chill with spending the little I do on WoW for odd thing I want.

It's really nothing to do with dumdums, you work, get paid and spend a small fraction of that on what you like. I down more in a single full evening date than what I do in 2-3 months in WoW.

Was mostly talking about gaming overall, not WoW in particular.

Like, take PoE for example, i dropped 100$ on there, 20$ on early alpha, 30$ another time for storage, 50$ for skin/storage, because they give back the points along with the skin, but it was never about the skin, but the tidying of the storage.

Cause, you know, game deserved it, but i wouldnt drop 480$ every 5 months as they release the more flashy sets, is my point.

But there are people that dont even actually reach the endgame bosses, dropping that amount, i mean?

[Mysterymask]

Blizzard can't win in this regard. I remember when they tried limiting the amount of dailies you could do a day, people didn't like that, that got removed eventually but considering how controversial dailies are...well...... I'm not even sure the community overall knows what it wants.

....actually when dailies were originally implemented it was 25 per day. It just wasnt until MOP where people actually reached that many

[potis]

I don't think being conditioned to purchase a value-added service is a trait exclusive to stupid people.

Same as above, it aint much WoW and the services, i meant gaming overall, WoW luckily doesnt have many of those things, although if only race change existed, it would be enough, people do that shit so much.

[Relapses]

Same as above, it aint much WoW and the services, i meant gaming overall, WoW luckily doesnt have many of those things, although if only race change existed, it would be enough, people do that shit so much.

I went through a phase...

[potis]

I went through a phase...

Yes, you probably did it for raiding environment, i get it, its a part of what i am saying, but not exactly.

I am basically talking about games that give irrelevant content that have nothing to do with gameplay, and at a very very, spammy patching way, PoE/GW2 etc.

They are decent games on their own, but apart from paying some extra $, usually around the 50$ mark, everything else is just being a dum dum.

Or, skins in any game..Yes Little Billy, the legendary overwatch skin dropped, congratulations, you are 150$ down this month and you are still at silver, just flashier.

There are "services", "semi-scammy tactics", like limitation of storage , cough GW2, cough PoE, and then there is just scam, irrelevant pointless pixels, BUT FLASHIER.