How Long has Kel'thuzad been working for the Jailer?

[bowlink]

SO my question is how long has Kel'thuzad been working for the jailer.
after his defeat in Naxxramas in Dragonblight.

After his defeat in Naxxramas in EPL

After his Death and Ressurection in WC3.

or before all that, and has been playing Arthas for a patzy even after he became a deathknight and lich king

[MrLachyG]

interesting question... we know he said he served the Lich King in WC3 and did so in Classic and Wrath... but it's also possible that he, like Sylvanas, was contacted by the Jailer after his first death. I mean if we assume that Denathrius was preparing for the Jailer's plan since BC (when he imprisoned Kael'thas) then this has been a plan in the making for a while

[Syegfryed]

we will only know if blizzard tell us, taking account how they made up that sylvanas had a pact with him since wtLK, they may as well say he was already working with him when he was alive in the cult of the dammed

Hell, they could even say the Jailler is the reason why kel'thuzand start studying necromancy

[tommyhil622]

imo, he's been serving the Jailer just prior of him entering the shadowlands. Something must have happened to his Phylactery for him to enter i think otherwise he would be tethered to the physical world.

[Lawlhero]

For bout 6 months now

[baskev]

SO my question is how long has Kel'thuzad been working for the jailer.
after his defeat in Naxxramas in Dragonblight.

After his defeat in Naxxramas in EPL

After his Death and Ressurection in WC3.

or before all that, and has been playing Arthas for a patzy even after he became a deathknight and lich king

whatever blizzard retcons it to.

But to really answer your question. Like most people who died i think. Either that, or when he became a lich in maldraxxus and then started to work for the jailor.

I think his defeats etc in EPC, WC3 etc etc do not matter. And we know now that the lich king is a tool ( and always has been) of the jailor. So if he played the arthas for a patzy he knew what he was doing.

[Razion]

I would sooner believe with how loyal Kel'Thuzad has been to Arthas that he would sooner backstab the Jailer if given the chance to choose between the two.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Blizzard, sometime in the near future: "Kel'Thuzad was always working for the Jailer."

I would sooner believe with how loyal Kel'Thuzad has been to Arthas that he would sooner backstab the Jailer if given the chance to choose between the two.

KT always came off more loyal to Arthas during WC3: RoC/TFT than he did in WotLK. By WotLK it just felt like he was another generic lieutenant of the Scourge.


Would be cool if Arthas' soul somehow comes into play by the Jailer, and KT makes a decision to betray the Jailer in order to rescue Arthas' soul. Or maybe it would be revealed KT only pledged allegiance to the Jailer in order to get closer to where Arthas' soul is, or something. Double crosses within double crosses!

[McNeil]

I've seen a speculation video where Arthas did send Kel'Thuzad to the Shadowlands as a back-up plan after his defeat in WotLK Naxx, which would also explain why we didn't see him back in ICC and where his phylactery went to. In case Arthas would fall than Kel'Thuzad would secretly work with the Jailor to get him back. In a way it would make sense for Arthas to trust him considering how much he treats Kel'Thuzad as a ''friend'' from their last cinematic in WC3.

[cozzri]

SO my question is how long has Kel'thuzad been working for the jailer.
after his defeat in Naxxramas in Dragonblight.

After his defeat in Naxxramas in EPL

After his Death and Ressurection in WC3.

or before all that, and has been playing Arthas for a patzy even after he became a deathknight and lich king

Before Arthas resurrected Kel'Thuzad as a lich in the sunwell, he warned Arthas not to trust the dreadlords because they are the Lich Kings jailers; So both he and Ner'zhul knew possibly knew of Dreadlords/The Jailer through their connection to shadowlands. We DO know that Arthas knew of Sargeras' plans through the spirit of Ner'zhul because his spirit was bound to frostmourn and the helm of domination.

[Ragedaug]

Seems the Jailer should be involved one way or the other with any necromancy, to the point that the Lich Kings should have/would have been serving him. I dunno.

Unfortunately, like most long running serials & comics, once you run past the planned story material, the story gets wonky and you either have to suspend disbelief and accept the story as-is or just move on. Attempts to explain some of the stuff typically only creates more contradictions and paradoxes. (especially when they introduce time travel, daggumit!)

[Nathanyel]

He likely already had some kind of Phylactery while still being alive as a Human, in preparation of becoming a Lich, so he wouldn't have gone to the Shadowlands after his death.
It's perfectly possible that he only went there after his defeat in WotLK Naxxramas. Ironically, he was assigned an afterlife that still let him be a Lich. Not really much of an atonement, or even a change (he may have gone to Revendreth first, but Denathrius would have fasttracked his "redemption")
As a former servant of the Lich King, he was on the Jailer's radar, ready to betray the Margrave at the promise of power.

[Raisei]

SO my question is how long has Kel'thuzad been working for the jailer.
after his defeat in Naxxramas in Dragonblight.

After his defeat in Naxxramas in EPL

After his Death and Ressurection in WC3.

or before all that, and has been playing Arthas for a patzy even after he became a deathknight and lich king

Well, he worked for the Lich King since before his death and we know now that the Lich King was mostly an extension of the Jailer into the mortal realm, even if Ner'zhul and Arthas both proved too stubborn to be fully controlled, Kel'thuzad DID therefore work for the Jailer at that time. It is unlikely that Kel'thuzad knew this, but once he arrived in the Maw it would not have been hard to convince him that the Jailer had always been his true master.

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He likely already had some kind of Phylactery while still being alive as a Human, in preparation of becoming a Lich, so he wouldn't have gone to the Shadowlands after his death.
It's perfectly possible that he only went there after his defeat in WotLK Naxxramas. Ironically, he was assigned an afterlife that still let him be a Lich. Not really much of an atonement, or even a change (he may have gone to Revendreth first, but Denathrius would have fasttracked his "redemption")
As a former servant of the Lich King, he was on the Jailer's radar, ready to betray the Margrave at the promise of power.

I thought he was actually send to the Maw and the Jailer then send him to Maldraxxus for his own goals. Nothing about Kel'thuzad seems to fit the ideals of Maldraxxus, apart from him being a Lich, he is cowardish, has no honor and only ever cared about gaining more power, no matter who he had to betray along the way. Would be quite a weird call by the Arbiter.

[Nathanyel]

Nothing about Kel'thuzad seems to fit the ideals of Maldraxxus, apart from him being a Lich, he is cowardish, has no honor and only ever cared about gaining more power, no matter who he had to betray along the way. Would be quite a weird call by the Arbiter.

So Revendreth first. From what we could gather, before the Arbiter was knocked out, being sent immediately to the Maw was reserved for the absolutely unrepentant and hopeless souls. Kel'thuzad is evil, but we've heard of plenty of souls in Revendreth who subjugated entire worlds and the like.
Not saying he wouldn't have ended up in the Maw eventually anyway if judged fairly and offered repentance in Revendreth, but immediately to the Maw is unlikely.

[Venziir]

Chronicles Vol. 3 mentioned that his soul was lost to the Shadowlands. But what's even wierder is, that someone as wicked, evil, manipulative and destructive as Kel'thuzad was send to Maldraxxus, the place of honor, strength and comraderie. I mean wut the actual fuck....

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So Revendreth first. From what we could gather, before the Arbiter was knocked out, being sent immediately to the Maw was reserved for the absolutely unrepentant and hopeless souls. Kel'thuzad is evil, but we've heard of plenty of souls in Revendreth who subjugated entire worlds and the like.
Not saying he wouldn't have ended up in the Maw eventually anyway if judged fairly and offered repentance in Revendreth, but immediately to the Maw is unlikely.

That's possible, but there's no mention of this in the game or outside the game. Besides it seems like repentance in Revendreth takes litteral ages.

[Mysterymask]

Blizzard, sometime in the near future: "Kel'Thuzad was always working for the Jailer."

Honestly that pry isnt so far from the truth.

We know Mal'Ganis was basically working for the jailer (at least till 3 expansions from now when they are revealed to be working for one even higher)
And that KT was one of the first to spread the plague that obviously was brought over by the Dreadlords probably of Maldraxxus design. It's entirely possible he accepted a deal with Mal'Ganis for more power and to serve the one true ruler and help push Arthas into fully using his fancy new Mourneblade.

- - - Updated - - -

Chronicles Vol. 3 mentioned that his soul was lost to the Shadowlands. But what's even wierder is, that someone as wicked, evil, manipulative and destructive as Kel'thuzad was send to Maldraxxus, the place of honor, strength and comraderie. I mean wut the actual fuck....

Dont forget Chronicles is in the point of view of the titans who have been all but unaware of what goes on in the Shadlowlands
(Or in MMOC terms Blizz is setting up a future retcon)

[DesoPL]

Chronicles Vol. 3 mentioned that his soul was lost to the Shadowlands. But what's even wierder is, that someone as wicked, evil, manipulative and destructive as Kel'thuzad was send to Maldraxxus, the place of honor, strength and comraderie. I mean wut the actual fuck....

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That's possible, but there's no mention of this in the game or outside the game. Besides it seems like repentance in Revendreth takes litteral ages.

I assume Kel'Thuzad was sended to the Maldraxxus after his second defeat in Naxxramas, but it might be my guess.

[Lord Pebbleton]

No. Just no. I refuse the notion of Kel'thuzad working for the Jailer before Shadowlands.

The servitude-friendship relationship between Kel and Arthas in Warcraft 3 has always been dear to me as a depiction of positive feelings among people made only of bad stuff. If it turns out that Kel has always served the Jailer, I will just pretend he didn't, and I'll go with my headcanon.

On a side note, screw retcons. Learn to write stories.

[Engal]

It's possible its a long term goal of the Primus... After all, he had a buddy who showed him the timeway and the different outcome of future battle.... A bit like Doctor Strange ' lol ' . So him accepting KT in Maldraxxus may have been a long term plan

[czarek]

Since plague invasion and Arthas path. Arthas was a weapon of Jailer but he was to strong to let take a full control by LK. Anduin is a bit weaker but as we saw in cinematic he could wake up for a while from jailers control. Ok maybe KT wasnt directly workin with Jailer and probably he wasnt know about him while plague invasion but definitely he was used not really knowin this :P