Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Machismo]

The entire movement rests on semantics. Whenever you pin them down on a particular point they simple redefine words to (usually) have a much more narrow meaning.

Am I harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare?

[Mayhem]

The entire movement rests on semantics. Whenever you pin them down on a particular point they simple redefine words to (usually) have a much more narrow meaning.

It would be much more interesting if he had intelligent arguments but he contradicts himself within two posts so it's rather meh.

[Machismo]

So you are not against harm then, got it. You just are against certain harm. Might want to revise your "people should be free to do whatever they want, so long as they are not harming others"-mantra because you are not consistent.

You not paying for universal healthcare is you willfully harming others, therefore the government forcing you would be well within their right by your own argument.

I want you to be clear. You think I'm harming Bill Gates by not paying for his Healthcare.

Correct?

[Glorious Leader]

I agree, we do not agree on such things. That has been my thesis all along.

If one wants to argue that me not paying for your Healthcare is a harmful act, I will simply counter that forcibly taking my earnings to pay for your healthcare is harmful.

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What the fuck is freedom from illness? Are we going to ban cancer?

Would that we could I'm sure their would be some monstrous libertarian position that we shouldn't. Something along the lines of sure we could cure cancer but their would be a cost to it, like that dumb bitch McCardell who wrote about the Grenfall tower fires. Actually she makes that same exact argument against socializing Healthcare costs, particulalry the pharmaceutical industry.

Treatments exist for diseases. Freedom from illness in this case means that one should not be denied those treatments. Nor should one be ruined for the rest of ones life under crushing debt for said treatment. In other words.... freedom from disease

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Am I harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare?

Yes you are. Have a good day.

[Mayhem]

I want you to be clear. You think I'm harming Bill Gates by not paying for his Healthcare.

Correct?

I see you aren't very good at English altogether, that explains so much.

Do you understand the difference between others and everyone? I am sincerely asking because if you understand the difference then you are trolling if you are not then your question makes sense, but it also makes you look really really stupid.

[Machismo]

Would that we could I'm sure their would be some monstrous libertarian position that we shouldn't. Something along the lines of sure we could cure cancer but their would be a cost to it, like that dumb bitch McCardell who wrote about the Grenfall tower fires. Actually she makes that same exact argument against socializing Healthcare costs, particulalry the pharmaceutical industry.

Treatments exist for diseases. Freedom from illness in this case means that one should not be denied those treatments. Nor should one be ruined for the rest of ones life under crushing debt for said treatment. In other words.... freedom from disease

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Yes you are. Have a good day.

Freesom from illness isn't really a thing... shit happens.

If you want to argue I'm harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare, I will argue you are harming me by forcing me to pay for his healthcare.

[Glorious Leader]

I see you aren't very good at English altogether, that explains so much.

Do you understand the difference between others and everyone? I am sincerely asking because if you understand the difference then you are trolling if you are not then your question makes sense, but it also makes you look really really stupid.

They have no concept of society so I just replied yes because when your conversing with someone who's view is so myopic and narrow getting them to see the forest for the trees is impossible. I shouldn't say they have no concept of society (although I'm sure some do deny the concept) but rather the primary function of society is to protect private property and thats it which is funny because hey look at that it aligns with the interest of the wealthy yet again! gee what a coincidence

[Machismo]

I see you aren't very good at English altogether, that explains so much.

Do you understand the difference between others and everyone? I am sincerely asking because if you understand the difference then you are trolling if you are not then your question makes sense, but it also makes you look really really stupid.

Nope, I want to make damn sure you are being consistent in your application of what you deem to be harmful.

Am I harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare?

Your argument rests on the premise that I am harming him. If that's the case, then anyone who is not paying for his healthcare is harming him.

[Glorious Leader]

Freesom from illness isn't really a thing... shit happens.

If you want to argue I'm harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare, I will argue you are harming me by forcing me to pay for his healthcare.

Treatments exists for diseases.. I don't know if your aware but theirs this entire science called medicine that works miracles...

I'm not going to argue with you about paying for bill gates healthcare because its a complete and total non sequitur on your part and its really just proof that your ability to see past your nose is quite limited which is the usual from libertarians.

[Machismo]

Nope, I want to make damn sure you are being consistent in your application of what you deem to be harmful.

Am I harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare?

Your argument rests on the premise that I am harming him. If that's the case, then anyone who is not paying for his healthcare is harming him.

No, I want to thank you for answering. According to you, all the poor people who don't pay the taxes that pay for healthcare... are causing harm.

[Mayhem]

They have no concept of society so I just replied yes because when your conversing with someone who's view is so myopic and narrow getting them to see the forest for the trees is impossible. I shouldn't say they have no concept of society (although I'm sure some do deny the concept) but rather the primary function of society is to protect private property and thats it which is funny because hey look at that it aligns with the interest of the wealthy yet again! gee what a coincidence

Harm is ok so long as I am not being harmed. The pinnacle of personal freedom.

[Machismo]

Treatments exists for diseases.. I don't know if your aware but theirs this entire science called medicine that works miracles...

I'm not going to argue with you about paying for bill gates healthcare because its a complete and total non sequitur on your part and its really just proof that your ability to see past your nose is quite limited which is the usual from libertarians.

Nope, its entirely on the issue, as this was about harm. According to you, anyone who isn't paying the taxes to provide healthcare for guys like Bill Gates, are harming him.

[Mayhem]

Nope, I want to make damn sure you are being consistent in your application of what you deem to be harmful.

Am I harming Bill Gates by not paying for his healthcare?

Your argument rests on the premise that I am harming him. If that's the case, then anyone who is not paying for his healthcare is harming him.

By your definition yes you are harming him, not by mine.

The guy that says "people should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others, except when it does" is questioning my consistency?

I just want to make it clear, this is just a fraction of the topic I wanted to talk with you about, but considering you already lose yourself in your own arguments I don't see much purpose in talking about big government anymore.

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Treatments exists for diseases.. I don't know if your aware but theirs this entire science called medicine that works miracles...

I'm not going to argue with you about paying for bill gates healthcare because its a complete and total non sequitur on your part and its really just proof that your ability to see past your nose is quite limited which is the usual from libertarians.

Apparently, he also doesn't know how taxes work. Poor people pay none, who knew.

[Machismo]

By your definition yes you are harming him, not by mine.

The guy that says "people should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others, except when it does" is questioning my consistency?

I just want to make it clear, this is just a fraction of the topic I wanted to talk with you about, but considering you already lose yourself in your own arguments I don't see much purpose in talking about big government anymore.

No, not paying for healthcare is literally your fucking argument. I'm simply trying to hold you to it.

This is literally your fucking argument, because I don't think not paying for someone else's healthcare constitutes an act of harm.

[Mayhem]

No, not paying for healthcare is literally your fucking argument. I'm simply trying to hold you to it.

Ok, quote me.

This is literally your fucking argument, because I don't think not paying for someone else's healthcare constitutes an act of harm.

You brought up bill gates.

[Machismo]

Ok, quote me.



You brought up bill gates.

I did bring up Bill Gates, he is a person...isn't he? I would assume you think he deserves treatment.

You see, the problem is not in carrying out the force, the problem is with finding out what actually harms people. Apparently, not being able to get treatment when needed does not harm people, so I am pretty sure we are not on the same page about what harm means.

[Felya]

My own inclination towards 'deregulation' is entirely from the perspective of someone who is trying to be upwards economically mobile, but is finding a lot of hurdles being put in place for the common people to try and secure some forms of legal wealth for themselves. To me it appears as if the upper powers, politicians and government really love to make it difficult for common people to make a bit of extra money on the side by putting all sorts of regulations in side... or to explain it with a picture.

Because you bought into a scam that regulations are harmful to people.

[Mayhem]

I did bring up Bill Gates, he is a person...isn't he? I would assume you think he deserves treatment.

So you think Bill Gates is not able to get treatment.

[Bodakane]

Well, I'm not someone who is deeply invested in libertarianism or has any involvement or experience with it's political interest groups.

My own inclination towards 'deregulation' is entirely from the perspective of someone who is trying to be upwards economically mobile, but is finding a lot of hurdles being put in place for the common people to try and secure some forms of legal wealth for themselves. To me it appears as if the upper powers, politicians and government really love to make it difficult for common people to make a bit of extra money on the side by putting all sorts of regulations in side... or to explain it with a picture.

Expectation:
Common individual (Wage Slavery) ===> Wealthy individual (smooth and easy transition)

Reality:
Common individual (Wage Slavery) =X (Goverment Regulations) X=> Wealthy individual (difficult transition, police weaponized by politicians to keep small entrepreneurs down)

Like what specifically? What regulations are you running into that prevent you from achieving this wealth?

[Shadowferal]

You made my point for me. Libertarians are never going to hold power, at least not in the next few hundred years. Therefore, trying to become a big-tent group is pointless. The objective for libertarians (as a whole) is not the same as the objective for Democrats, Republicans, progressives, or conservatives. You guys have somewhat realistic hopes of being in power, so your motives are driven by that. I have no such expectations.

All your doing is reinforcing how useless your own arguments are. In essence you call yourself " libertarian" for no reason other than silly contrariness.
To be fair that sounds like most libertarians that argues pointless points "just because." And reading the above posts..yep.