Why are people so obsessed with high ilevels??

[Lurker1]

I do not understand why so many people want higher ilevels just for the sake of it.

If you are not doing Mythic raiding or at the high end of PvP ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have higher i level gear upwards of 220+. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher ilevel is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

I can't get my head round this mentality.

No idea the fact that ilvl scaleing still exist makes it even more not worth it imho.i don't think this way anymore the only reason for high ilvl would be if you p vs p in now which i rather do in a pvp based game instead.

[craigw]

why do you give a fuck how somehow wants to play the game they pay to play? play the game how you want to and leave other people alone to play it how they choose to.

[Squigglyo]

You cant understand why people are striving for what is essentially the core basic mechanic of pretty much every RPG ever made?



You understand why people level up at least though right?

[gd8]

The only thing to do in this game is chase ilvl which is why it's so boring now

[Razion]

It's my perspective people want something to do. Busywork, entertainment, a value for their sub, staying invested in their hobby, sharing moments of growth among those you have played with, or just a fair reward for the ffort they have put in... everyone's got a reason, not all of them are for power. The power itself could be meaningless, but it's the culmination of all these experiences that can give the acquisition, the reward, the win, worth it. The emotion of it is a valid reason as any in the game for wanting. That the power can potentially lead to future efforts of those you may not want to let down, that people tie so much of their worth or identity into this game is another. One can criticize aspects of this relationship insofar as it gives the person happiness, entertainment, connections, and these associated experiences - that's the value people ultimately pay for, and what they come to want, need, expect.

[Depakote]

Perhaps it's because people want to do said content but can't because try hards won't let them que to get high lvl gear because they don't already have it.

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why do you give a fuck how somehow wants to play the game they pay to play? play the game how you want to and leave other people alone to play it how they choose to.

That's just it though. You can no longer play the game how you want to play it. Other people have a say in how you play it or you don't really get to progress in anything.

[GreenJesus]

I understand what you're saying but at the end of the day, they could remove gear... and..people..would...still...play.

To imply "because it's only been this way and thus it's the only way for it to exist" is fallacious.

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To be fair, their struggle is different.

WoW is lucky -- and every competent developer there has admitted that if WoW started today, it would not grow to what it is now. They simply got lucky on timing.
So to presume they are doing things right as the only reason they are successful is fallacious.

GW2 does a lot of things right. To infer they can't do anything right is foolish because WoW has copied a few aspects to GREAT success. If you don't know what those things are, then I suggest you explore a bit more in gaming to open up your experiences.

My stance still stands: WoW could remove gear and people would still play.

Look at arena's and BG's as an example. Case in point.

When content isn't required, people...still...play..it. This is how it is for an insane amount of games. Metrics show people like fun. I know that's a difficult concept but people do. The overwhelming majority of people prefer even battles where gear doesn't matter. This makes wins more valuable and losses more understandable.

But I do understand that most WoW players, and even commenters here, think that if WoW were to change even one little thing the house of cards would collapse. That's not true. They lost millions of subs in Cata and did fine. They lost a chunk in BfA. Still fine.

People.Still.Play.

Want to know something else that'll probably spin your head right on off: People farm legacy content for xmog! I know, ti's a crazy thing! They don't even get real gear or rewards for it! Just coolness stuffs!

Case.In.Point.

When legion basically removed gear from pvp in legion, pvp plummeted in participation. Shadowlands has gear rewards for pvp and now pvp has almost never seen this level of participation. Huh.. who would have thunk. People play parts of the game for gear. If they don't get gear from it they don't bother doing it.

[kaminaris]

I do not understand why so many people want better cars just for the sake of it.

If you are not doing any kind of racing or at the high end street race ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have better car upwards of 220+ horse power. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher horse power is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

I can't get my head round this mentality.



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I do not understand why so many people want to eat better food just for the sake of it.

If you are not doing any kind of tasting or at the high end food reviews you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to eat better food of upwards of $22+ per meal. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Better food is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

I can't get my head round this mentality.

[Advent]

To be fair, their struggle is different.

WoW is lucky -- and every competent developer there has admitted that if WoW started today, it would not grow to what it is now. They simply got lucky on timing.
So to presume they are doing things right as the only reason they are successful is fallacious.

GW2 does a lot of things right. To infer they can't do anything right is foolish because WoW has copied a few aspects to GREAT success. If you don't know what those things are, then I suggest you explore a bit more in gaming to open up your experiences.

My stance still stands: WoW could remove gear and people would still play.

Look at arena's and BG's as an example. Case in point.

When content isn't required, people...still...play..it. This is how it is for an insane amount of games. Metrics show people like fun. I know that's a difficult concept but people do. The overwhelming majority of people prefer even battles where gear doesn't matter. This makes wins more valuable and losses more understandable.

But I do understand that most WoW players, and even commenters here, think that if WoW were to change even one little thing the house of cards would collapse. That's not true. They lost millions of subs in Cata and did fine. They lost a chunk in BfA. Still fine.

People.Still.Play.

Want to know something else that'll probably spin your head right on off: People farm legacy content for xmog! I know, ti's a crazy thing! They don't even get real gear or rewards for it! Just coolness stuffs!

Case.In.Point.

I don't know why you keep saying this as if it elevates your opinion. It doesn't. You're making a poor comparison between pvp gameplay and pve gameplay. The reasons people play pvp games is for the competition, for the skill versus skill gameplay. People generally don't pick up a game based on RPG ideals with the idea to "Get good" and stomp other folks.

I also didn't imply that wow was doing "everything right", nor did I imply that Gw2 did everything wrong. I said that we have direct evidence from another MMORPG that this genre of themepark MMO does not do well when you remove the principle, driving reward structure. Even games in other genres don't upend their reward structures, likely because they believe it to be suicide. People seem to like incentives, and it's been stated time and again in other threads that removing gear/power from most content would kill it. Or do you think that mythic raiders (As an example) would suddenly flock to the raid portals to bash their head against bosses for transmog instead of tangible power?

You said they could remove gear and still be okay. I disagree with that, and stated my reasons. You haven't cited any relevant examples to back up your assertion.

[shoc]

For the same reason people quantify IRL success with metrics like wealth. For the same reason instagram influencers are obsessed with their follower counts. For the same reason people dedicate their lives to smashing world records. For the same reason bodybuilders want to be the swolest guy in the room. For the same reason students try for the highest GPA they can achieve. For the same reason people are obsessed over the lengths of their dicks or the size of their waists. It is human nature.

[spanishninja]

Because I like bigger numbers? Killing things quicker in PvE and PvP?

How is this not obvious?



I don't know if you are being purposefully obtuse or not, but he said "power progression".

Character power and player skill level are not the same thing.

This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses

[RCA]

You can have the higher item level but if you don’t move or click fast enough (maybe at a larger margin than normal if we dive into it), can’t a lower item lvl character be the better choice? This thought process goes back to the earlier days of the game, where items never had that level denomination, so in general better gameplay shined more. Not cementing any idea or anything but I think this is where the post is coming from, hence their item lvl question.

[Echo of Soul]

I do not understand why so many people want better cars just for the sake of it.

If you are not doing any kind of racing or at the high end street race ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have better car upwards of 220+ horse power. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher horse power is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

I can't get my head round this mentality.



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I do not understand why so many people want to eat better food just for the sake of it.

If you are not doing any kind of tasting or at the high end food reviews you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to eat better food of upwards of $22+ per meal. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Better food is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

I can't get my head round this mentality.

Wait..are you insinuating that humans have...desires!?
Surely that can't be true. We only care about efficiency, logic and executing tasks optimally.

[Dastreus]

Makes dailies easier, and dailies are the core aspect of wow.

[kamuimac]

Because it’s the whole progression of the game; and things getting easier, regardless of what it is, due to your works feels good for people.

As for the item levels themselves, it wouldn’t be as a big a deal if the scaling wasn’t so whack. A 25% dps increase is way too huge for 200 vs 215.

its waaaaaay higher then 25%.

this is something that a lot of people didnt realise because stremers didnt tell them that. the difference of performance between 200-210 is very huge - the difference of performance between 200 - 220 is enormous . even as simple stat as stamina means really a lot this expansion.

like always blizzard has the "perception " problems because they aparently dont have even a single manager with decent psychological background that would explain them how human perception works.

your average player percives +3 itlv upgrade as nothing - zero - nada - not worth pursuing. when in fact due to how gear scales this expansion its pretty decent upgrade if you get +3 overall itlvs.

its also due to constant numbers nerfing . people dont see the diffrence because numbers are to small.

its much easier to percive difference between someone doing 20k dps and 15k then between someone doing 2k and 1,5k dps - thats how our brains work . same with itlv . 15 itlv difference ? worth pursuing - 3 itlv difference - lol waste of time.

if they didnt listened to people obsessed with small numbers then it would be much more visible .

[Swnem]

I agree. I have set my goal to heroic and mythic+ and i have achieved my goals. I can upgrade my gear to 220 and i have achieved my goals even before i could do it.
I don't need anymore gear cause my guild decided to skip mythic raiding. There is no problem at all.

If you ask me, greed. They want the reward without the effort. I don't see how that is fair.

But, that is the PvE perspective. It is a problem when it comes to PvP. The solution is to scale everyone down to the same ilvl.

[kamuimac]

This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses

depends on level of gameplay . for example regardless of how well 200 itlv player plays he will just keep getting 1 shot over and over in dungeons like +14 due to sheer lack of stamina.

ye ye ye in perfect world he will interut/stun / avoid stuff - but thats not the reality of 99,9% of pugs

[Spacewalrus2010]

This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses

What does this have to do with anything I said?

[Pum]

Imagine being the OP, and actually believing that how others play the game or the rewards they get, or better yet, HOW they got them, is relevant to you at all if you're actually doing those things such as high end pvp or mythic raiding?

You want to know what REAL mythic raiders think about people getting good gear they don't need? They don't fucking care.

I don't care what other ilevel people have, what ilevel I have doesn't bother me either and I passed on most the gear in my raid because of it at the start of the tier. There isn't harm in being curious, my dude, when the attitude I speak of is pervasive on this site.

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Wait..are you insinuating that humans have...desires!?
Surely that can't be true. We only care about efficiency, logic and executing tasks optimally.

What a stupid comparison

[SoundOfGuns]

iLevel is also sort of very important for the output you can deliver. Differences of 7 to 9 points overall might as well be the difference between going geared or naked in raids or mythic+ to be honest. Blizzard did this on purpose years ago - making sure the iLevel directly affects the stats this way, because they wanted to avoid that people kept using trinkets from first raids of the expansion till to the end, which happened in WotLK. Heck, i did that myself since you got haste Trinkets in Naxx that had no upgrade.

This makes the entire loot system more irritating of course, simply because not getting that upgrade is just... going to hurt you in more ways than one. Its kind of just another quick Blizzard-Fix that wasn't thought out and here we are, were it does not only matter for epeen but a lot for your overal performance. Wowlogs does not have an ilevel switch for noth