Rares, a major problem with shadowlands.

[loras]

Rares have always been a thing in wow, but since mists of pandaria they have become less so rares, and more so "mobs with special names that are always alive and need to be killed daily for a chance at a reward" instead of "actual rarespawn, that almost always drops their unique reward" of the past.


This is a major fucking issue, especially with shadowlands, and here I am to give you some examples.

1. Bubbleblood- While I can solo this rare, it takes awhile, and its annoying ,it is slow and boring, takes about a minute, and I have killed this rare every day since launch of shadowlands. And yet here we are april 9th, and i still have yet to get his grungy containment pack. The reason I am hunting this item is for the pack cause it fits my mog amazingly. we are almost 6 months in, and this one reward is still missing. that is literally insane, that is in the most simple terms, a 0.5% drop rate (for me) and this is
one item
on one rare
in one zone
how is that at all respectful to the players time? that you ask of players who want to collect all the rewards just form world content itself, multiple hours of farming every single day, for MONTHS just to have a chance at the rewards, FROM WORLD CONTENT.


2- collector kash- this highlights another issue, he has a few rewards, however one of them the jagged bonesaw could not be obtained till jan 12th when we unlocked a new renown level... after that point he now drops the jagged bonesaw, this item is a modifier you apply to a toy you get as a necrolord. And yet, I have been farming this rare every day since jan 12th. 3 months later, and yet where is that jagged bonesaw? still on the rare. Locking a garunteed item behind unlocking its drop is fine, get renown then go kill a rare and get the item! but locking a RANDOM CHANCE behind something like this? its fucking mental


3- Tahonta- this rare had a secret method required to get the mount, which required reaching a specific level of the abomination factory, and then to go find a secret abomination neena, and then have her on you when you kill the rare, meaning all the kills before this, all the farming, was pointless, cause you never could have gotten the mount. Imagine if some rare had a secret method where you had to kill a rare the same hour your account was registered on, most players would get it acidently, as the others would all be screwed, not knowing that the time they played at and killed it, meant they never ever had the chance of getting this. it took a fair while for players to figure out it was neena that made the mount spawn, and even now we arnt 100% sure, as even with neena, people like me killing tahonta every day still have yet to get the mount.

now i shouldnt need to do this, but fuck it lets give it a shot!
What does my average day look like?

Log on with neena. Go to tahonta and kill them. No mount
Go to bubbleblood, ask in chat if anyone wants to help kill. No response. wait 10 seconds, then spend the next minute killing bubbleblood. No pack
Then go to collector kash, kill him. no bonesaw.
Then I take the portal back to the seat. and then i go to the abom factory and collect unity. Then go and do ALL the maldraxxus world quests. Then return to the abom factory and pick up neena again.

Oh wait unity? oh yeah. There is an ENTIRE ARMOR SET locked behind doing world quests in maldraxxus with unity as your active abom, unity an abom not obtainable till rank 5 of the abom factory. And has no weekly quest, same with neena, so you cant carry their summon items in your bag, you have to go actually pick them up from the abom factory. And completing a world quest with unity, has about a 1 in 20 chance of giving you a peice of gear for your mog set.


Now repeat this for 6 months straight, and im sure you start to see why this is so fucking draining, depressing, and tiring.
Because of this I have been playing less and less of shadowlands day by day, to the point most days my log in is just to go, kill these 3 rares, then log off, because its just exhausting. and im playing more classic then live, even playing more of other games that i used to only play when wow's servers were down.

People love to talk about how "locking flying is just blizzard trying to force people to stay subbed for longer" i love to point out that is hilariously wrong.
Simply because this, this right here is that. its gambling, not with money but with time. "If i kill them today i might just get it!" its disgusting and disrespectful to players time. Blizzard needs to increase the drop rate of rares, or simply return them to what they used to be.

I can garuntee you right now, I far prefered the time lost protodrake to this shit. When I farmed that mount it took me a long time, but that i could sit there and play something else, it was "once it spawns i am 100% going to get it" instead of this, were the mob is always there, but every single day you have a chance to get the item, and this chance means you are never actually garunteed to get it, even if you farm for 6 fucking months like I have.



Many people call me a shill saying I never say anything bad about the game, usually because I keep to myself the problems, simply because my problems with the game are ones plenty of people already talk about, or ones not big enough to make a thread or big deal about, so I never really voice them, but for yall that keep calling me shill and such, here is one of my problems I feel is big enough to talk about, and is a major problem.


Blizzard makes a lot of stupid fucking decisions, but stuff like this, these "small things" they add up, especially as this is THREE RARES there is atleast 100 in shadowlands. and yet 3 of them have me here 6 months later still missing rewards. I can only fucking imagine how bad it is for other people who actually want to "complete" shadowlands. I know for example desmephisto who is going for full plate, he has been doing hardcore wow every day all day for 6 months now on multiple warriors to try and get all the plate gear in shadowlands. here we are 6 months later, hes got multiple warriors of each covenent. and yet hes only about 50% done completion... that is fucking insane.


I did so many dailies, killed so many rares, I was world first 20k, 30k, and 35k anima. And yet here we are, there is still countless rewards i have to unlock, after months of farming, and yet ive maybe only unlocked 20-30% of necorlord cloth rewards. like and there is fucking 3 more necrolord armor types, then ontop of that 3 more covenants, like you gotta be fucking kidding me.

Rant over, im gunna go drink for abit and see how this turns out, tell me what item youve been farming for or something idk. what rare has been fucking abyssmal to you?

Hit the nail on the head.
RNG's a cancer, sadly it is one that is addictive, and addicts tend to be defensive about their habits.

[FelPlague]

How did you not mention the existence of the Violet Mistake in there at all though.

I lucked out and got the mount on the first kill thankfully.

Honestly, I'd rather what we have now over stuff like the TLPD though, that just feels like it's completely impossible outside of dumb luck and wasting far too much time just to have someone stroll by and steal it first.

BUT, on the same note...I don't think it should be so extreme. Such a low drop chance being tied to nearly hour long respawns is a bit much, or having no actual indication that it's locked behind renown/covenant even. It should be more upfront about that, the amount of vagueness that existed for the first month on rares and whether or not it drops for all players or only certain covenants at certain renown is problematic overall.

omfg yeah the slime bosses holy fuck i forgot about those, i got the one reward i wanted from them and stopped doing them ,but holy fuck, trying to summon those specific rares to only have randoms fuck it... omfg in what fucking world did blizz think that was a good idea.

[Metrox]

I liked Legion as the best expansion for this sort of thing. A lot of the rares were also daily world quests. If you wanted to pack on the alts and farm it 12 times a day, then you could do it. If you wanted to just do it when it was the daily quest one time, then you could. The drop rates were not 1% and it wasn't that hard to get most if not all of the mounts. Everyone that I knew didn't mind this system at all. Better drop rates...... easier to farm.... nothing bad about it. The mounts were not TLPD rare and I don't think anyone cared. At least there wasn't anything on this forum about it. Then that changed again in BFA with Rustfeather and rares like that. SL is just more of the same.

[Unlimited Power]

I don't think "rare" mobs should have 1% or less drop chance on any loot. I think at least 2% drop chance is justified, preferable 1/33 or even higher like a lot of the 8.3 rares.

That said, the rares in 9.0 are fairly similar to MoP rares. MoP rares had anywhere between a 10-20% drop chance on their exclusive loot (pets, toys, epic BoEs, what have you) and practically a guaranteed spawn rate of 1 hour from death.

The major difference from then to now is that you could kill the same rare repeatedly in a day on a single character and have the same drop chance on every kill.

[Asrialol]

I don't see how this is a "major" issue. People has killed Lich King 10+ times every week for several years without getting the mount. I killed Kael'thas every week for 3 years before I got the mount. Killing a rare one time every day for 6 months isn't something that hasn't happened before. It's been a thing since 2007/8, actually.

Now, people complain mindlessly about all sort of things here. But having bad loot luck isn't something that should be considered an "major" problem with shadowlands. Specially when it's not anything new with shadowlands.

Yikes.

[Lucetia]

Rares have always been a thing in wow, but since mists of pandaria they have become less so rares, and more so "mobs with special names that are always alive and need to be killed daily for a chance at a reward" instead of "actual rarespawn, that almost always drops their unique reward" of the past.

I don't mind rares being up all the time or having a short respawn timer of 5-10 minutes. I don't think they need to be something that has hour long spawns and if you are lucky and in the area get to kill it. Most of the player base likely finds this annoying especially if you are looking for certain drops.

As for the rest of your areas I think since if the rare is constantly up there is nothing wrong with making it's drop rare. Maybe not 1% rare, but say in the 25% range would be fine. Think about it would you rather farm a rare for a week and have a pretty good shot at having the item and being done? Or would you rather the rare have a spawn timer of saying 4-8 hours so it's only up 21-42 times and if you weren't there when it was up oh well. So you could go an entire week without seeing it meaning your chance is 0%.

In the end there is nothing wrong with rares just being special named mobs and being up all the time. Also, to add to your comment even in Vanilla/Classic when a mob was "rare" and had absurdly long spawn timers their drops were never 100% either or close to that. You would be farming the same rare 100's of times as well for just a drop.

[FelPlague]

I don't see how this is a "major" issue. People has killed Lich King 10+ times every week for several years without getting the mount. I killed Kael'thas every week for 3 years before I got the mount. Killing a rare one time every day for 6 months isn't something that hasn't happened before. It's been a thing since 2007/8, actually.

Now, people complain mindlessly about all sort of things here. But having bad loot luck isn't something that should be considered an "major" problem with shadowlands. Specially when it's not anything new with shadowlands.

Yikes.

the lich king is 1 enemy, 1 of them per raid.
Rares are hundreds of them every expansion, with many more each patch.

[zaxlor]

Bit of a rant, bit of a wall of text, but mostly truth, despite being wrapped up in a lot of feelings

This has been the first exspansion that I feel really, really does not respect player time. And I say that as someone who made an alt for the express purpose of leveling up one of the Jinyu dudes to help unlock the crab mount from Nazjatar quicker!

There's a world quest in Maldraxus where you have to go speak to a Spider, stealth up to three different mobs and pick pocket them. Except you can't mount. You don't get any movement speed buffs. And it takes a good 2-3~ minutes to slowly walk your way over. And if you get spotted and drop stealth, you do get a spell to teleport back to the spider, but you've got to walk all the way back to the quest mobs again.

Doing away with the Flight Master's Whistle was really the nail in the coffin too. There's that world quest in the south-west of Ardenweald where you go help the Wild hunt or even the World Boss. If you run down there and your Hearthstone is on cooldown, you're screwed. You've got to spend all that time walking your way back up again, or just logging out and doing something else.

The time spent getting to, doing the world quests and then traveling back to your Covenant Sanctum, to me, feels like it's all been metered out by some weird in-game metrics to give the precise amount of dopamine per action granted. It all feels very insidious even though that's probably not the case. It's coupled with the obscene amounts of Anima you need to grind to unlock certain items. I've just got done getting that Ardenweald moth mount unlocked by killing off each of the play boss fights, one a day for a week - and now it's asking for 5000! Anime to buy it! Considerly you get between 70-140 per world quest it's "Do I buy a mount?" or "Do I the ability to teleport around my Covenant zone?". They could up the Anima reward amounts by 10 times what they give now, so each was 700-1400 per world quest and it would still feel stingy!

I don't mind when things are a grind. I don't even mind when Blizzard basically says "This mount will cost you 10 bucks, as it's locked behind a months worth of daily quests", but I'm in agreement with you - The amount of hidden RNG, time-gating and severe disrespect of players time has been awful in Shadowlands so far.

[Lost controller]

I don't think rares work with cross realm... a lot of groups simple have bots or afk players camping them and selling invite spots for gold/cash to collect them.

I admit I have good memories of rares in early wow I just think the game kind of outgrew them. It is a shame though I think rares are a wasted potential. I would love to see cosmetic items tied to them more often.

[Daedius]

Give me short respawn to low drop rates over ridiculously long respawn times any day. I got the vast majority of collectables off all these rares from doing my usual daily routine... TLPD I'll never waste my time with... I don't fancy the idea of paying to idle...

[GreenJesus]

You can thank multiboxers and people playing the game for over 12 hours a day since MoP (yes there are people like that) for why drop rates suck. A completion treadmill working like an arms race between players and the devs. Only way you can win is to replicate what the highest metagame players do.

If someone is such a completionist that they multibox or play over 12 hours a day then good for them. No idea why blizzard would have to design the game around those few people.

[rhorle]

The JG Wentworth argument. There is nothing wrong with things being rare and not everything needs bad luck protection. The only thing the rares need are WQ's to highlight a few different ones each day/week. So traffic is directed to them and spawn rates can be adjusted.

- - - Updated - - -

Doing away with the Flight Master's Whistle was really the nail in the coffin too. There's that world quest in the south-west of Ardenweald where you go help the Wild hunt or even the World Boss. If you run down there and your Hearthstone is on cooldown, you're screwed. You've got to spend all that time walking your way back up again, or just logging out and doing something else.

Just kill them. You don't have to pick pocket them in order to get the quest item. So if you drop stealth just kill them.

[TbouncerT]

6 months of killing the same mob every day, that is a 0.5% drop rate, for a green dagger item.
how is that rare, that is literally crazy.

This is just seems to be someone getting annoyed with bad RNG/Luck. It just happens to people, it sucks. I feel like it happens to me most of the time in WoW. When DS was relevant, it took my tank 27 weeks to get the shield i wanted to drop at all. I've been trying (still) to get Ashes of Al'ar (1.70% drop rate) for YEARS and still haven't got it, while my wife got it a few years ago. She still hasn't gotten the headless horseman mount (.4%) and she does that daily on multiple toons and I've had it for over 10 years now. I've done hundreds of Stratholme runs for Deathcharger's Reins (.8%) and still don't have it, while a co-worker got it on his 5th attempt. Sorry for the frustration, but that is just how it goes.

[Stardrift]

While I agree it fucking sucks and feels awful to never get the item you're farming for daily.. It's a lot better than going to the spot where a true rare spawn spawns at, and seeing a million neckbeards surrounding it.

Remember time lost proto drake? Yea I never fucking bothered because people will dead ass wait the entire spawn time. Also, not to mention shards, CRZ and server merges which totally fucked with true rare spawns.

[zaxlor]

Just kill them. You don't have to pick pocket them in order to get the quest item. So if you drop stealth just kill them.

Oh, I know you can "Just kill them", but that quest really is the epitome of how bloody awful most of the Shadowlands quests are. Why does the stealth buff not give a movement speed buff? Why can't the quest literally turn me into a spider, allowing me to "Spiderman" my way along the walls like how the hookshot points work in The Maw? Why can I magically teleport back to the quest giver, but I can't magically just... go back into stealth? The "sap" ability you get while in stealth is mostly pointless too as the huge "These guys see through stealth" rings are damn easy to spot, but sometimes a random NPC will just run through you and BAM!, you drop stealth. It's not like those Elites are that hard to kill, but it's just such a ball ache to traverse the area that normally I'll teleport back and re-stealth or just... not do the world quest at all.

[Stardrift]

If someone is such a completionist that they multibox or play over 12 hours a day then good for them. No idea why blizzard would have to design the game around those few people.

Remember the Zandalari warbringers? They're talking about the no lifes who constantly, endlessly farmed them. Fuck, people still use a bot to circle around Pandaria, looting the rare treasures the moment they spawn.

[ReVnX]

If you are this sensitive to RNG bad luck, I don't think you should be collecting

[GreenJesus]

If you are this sensitive to RNG bad luck, I don't think you should be collecting

This is the reason Blizzard has continued to get away with this shit. Players dismiss any critique of a skinner box with "RNG is RNG bro deal with it". Meanwhile the players just give up and don't bother doing it anymore.

[SoulSoBreezy]

*rant*

lol /10char

[rhorle]

Oh, I know you can "Just kill them", but that quest really is the epitome of how bloody awful most of the Shadowlands quests are. Why does the stealth buff not give a movement speed buff? Why can't the quest literally turn me into a spider, allowing me to "Spiderman" my way along the walls like how the hookshot points work in The Maw? Why can I magically teleport back to the quest giver, but I can't magically just... go back into stealth? The "sap" ability you get while in stealth is mostly pointless too as the huge "These guys see through stealth" rings are damn easy to spot, but sometimes a random NPC will just run through you and BAM!, you drop stealth. It's not like those Elites are that hard to kill, but it's just such a ball ache to traverse the area that normally I'll teleport back and re-stealth or just... not do the world quest at all.

That is why you sap random ones that could cross your path. The teleport is so you can get to safety since it also works in combat. The quest wouldn't be much of a challenge if it you could just go back into stealth. It is annoying but it is still pretty simple and easy since it doesn't require stealth. You can just run past on a mount and if you are not unlucky with daze they mostly leash.

It is fine for annoying ones to be skipped most of the time though as it does still line up perfectly with the other kill quest in the area or World Boss so most of the trash is leashed anyways. And once we have flying in 9.1 it will be a non-issue since you can just swoop in kill and fly out.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the reason Blizzard has continued to get away with this shit. Players dismiss any critique of a skinner box with "RNG is RNG bro deal with it". Meanwhile the players just give up and don't bother doing it anymore.

No. They get away with it because RNG is fine. Even rare RNG. Not everything needs to be earned just because you done it X amount of times. Blizzard does have those types of rewards for some stuff.