The pressing need of massive reform on the basic level of governance in America

[Felya]

It is actually kind of weird, that there is a sort of liberal movement in culture and entertainment media; that the more liberal party doesn't really have anything to do with, and honestly don't touch much upon. But they do get blamed for it, and people vote in opposition, as if that'd really help.

Because that’s how conservatives enact social change. They banned stem cell research, because <forbidden topic> and strong arming media with mass ‘mothers against X’ campaigns. They tried to legislate and spent numerous rhetoric capital, on fighting on behalf of Christmas...

You know what “liberals” had to do to shrink Lola Bunny boobs? None of what I said about... literally nothing, but leaving an impression that modern parents wouldn’t by their CHILDREN toys that are over sexualized. Society simply shifted away from these perverts, there was no attack or legislative might... the only coverage outside of conservative media that I have seen, is cringing at them sexualizing cartoon characters.

Yet... pragmatism... can you tell which part of the thread irked me the most? lol

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But i promise you i copied that text from no-one.

I believe you... since it would be nearly impossible to find someone claiming pragmatism, without knowing what the word means.

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Here is another example of conservative pragmatism...

America first!!! Secession is the only way!!! - Texas

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This man was killed, by those carrying a Blue Lives Mater flag:


This woman was trampled by fellow “conservatives” while both she and they carried this very “don’t tread on me” flag:


#pragmatism

How about the fact that after ya’ll fuck up an actual drive to protect children, by selfishly cooping “save the children”, to then waste endless media capital on defending Matt Gaetz and his buddy, that just signed a plea deal?

That’s right... you know what’s coming... #pragmatism

[Howel]

Never heard of her.

I don't doubt my political views have been shaped from the wider society though. (Everybody's has).

But i promise you i copied that text from no-one.

It was mostly meant as a joke, but the pointers are just very aligned with her philosophy, which is uhhh, functionally questionable to put it lightly.

[Wingitwongit]

snip

Cherry picked examples can be done with literally anything to re-enforce a particular point of view.

I think it's hard to deny modern day business can be mostly associated with pragmatic approaches, deriving from right wing private sector innovation.

Whereas public sector idealism can be mostly associated with left wing ideaology.

The key word being "mostly".

It's easy to cherry pick examples where generalisation doesn't apply.

[Felya]

It was mostly meant as a joke, but the pointers are just very aligned with her philosophy, which is uhhh, functionally questionable to put it lightly.

Consider what it means for someone to define conservatives... without ever hearing the name... Ayn Rand... just think about the basic ideology of conservative for the last... oh... 50 years. Without ever hearing the name... Ayn Rand...

Eyebrows, firmly raised...

[Wingitwongit]

Consider what it means for someone to define conservatives... without ever hearing the name... Ayn Rand... just think about the basic ideology of conservative for the last... oh... 50 years. Without ever hearing the name... Ayn Rand...

Eyebrows, firmly raised...

I've literally never heard of her.

Haven't even been bothered to Google her after her name was mentioned here.

Don't know who she is.

Don't care to find out.

[Jonnusthegreat]

You've cherry picked a few issues that basically don't even matter when it comes to governance. What we really need is reform to the election process, such as a runoff or ranked choice election. Then we could finally see some new parties in the mix.

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I've literally never heard of her.

Haven't even been bothered to Google her after her name was mentioned here.

Don't know who she is.

Don't care to find out.

She's a fiction writer, and lots of people on these forums decide to cite pieces of fiction as evidence in their arguments. "OMG WE CAN'T DO THIS HAVE YOU READ 1984!?!?!" is the most popular one I see.

[Felya]

Cherry picked examples can be done with literally anything to re-enforce a particular point of view.

Cherry picking? No, that’s reality... not this bullshit about conservatives being pragmatic. You think building a fucking wall the length of southern border in 2020 is pragmatic? You think “stop the steal” is pragmatic, after Powell claims in court that no one in their right mind would believe them? Around 150 million, is what Trump made through donations to stop this steal... he is a billionaire... those conservative donors are not... #pragmatism

Pragmatic? More cherry picking? When do you think this cherry tree will run of cherries for me to pick?

I think it's hard to deny modern day business can be mostly associated with pragmatic approaches, deriving from right wing private sector innovation.

No, pragmatism is a liberal concept... that would mean corporations and those businesses are liberal... I’ll link again...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey

Whereas public sector idealism can be mostly associated with left wing ideally.

Excluding cheap things... like the military... nor smaller things, like subsidizing coal companies, which keep the money and lay off worker. Here... more cherry picking and pragmatism... when will I run out?

The key word being "mostly".

There is no fucking key... just bias in needing to generalize, instead of dealing with policy on their merits. Because GOP has no policy...

It's easy to cherry pick examples where generalisation doesn't apply.

You know what’s funny about generalizations... the easier it is to cherry pick, the more apt the generalization is... that’s... #pragmatism

[Shadowferal]

I've literally never heard of her.

Haven't even been bothered to Google her after her name was mentioned here.

Don't know who she is.

Don't care to find out.

Congratulations on being the problem of not learning from history's past mistakes.

Libertarians love that sort of thing since they can convince others of repeating the same mistakes.

[Howel]

I think it's hard to deny modern day business can be mostly associated with pragmatic approaches, deriving from right wing private sector innovation.

This is not a thing. Like at all. Whatsoever. There is no private sector that has been even remotely unilaterally right wing (or left wing for that matter). It is not even conceptually an ideologically leaning concept in a democracy.

Like I can understand the confusion, because the right wing likes to lay claims to it and them being its paragon, but doesn't make it true

[Felya]

She's a fiction writer, and lots of people on these forums decide to cite pieces of fiction as evidence in their arguments. "OMG WE CAN'T DO THIS HAVE YOU READ 1984!?!?!" is the most popular one I see.

She is only the basis for conservative ideology of the last 50 years... a rhetorical icon that shifted conservatives from Goldwater to the Reagan version that has lasted to this day. Not hearing the name, means you cannot have an educated opinion on what is conservatism.

[Jonnusthegreat]

She is only the basis for conservative ideology of the last 50 years... a rhetorical icon that shifted conservatives from Goldwater to the Reagan version that has lasted to this day. Not hearing the name, means you cannot have an educated opinion on what is conservatism.

While it's a judgment call, I'd say she's best known for her fiction pieces, which include conservatism.

[Howel]

She is only the basis for conservative ideology of the last 50 years... a rhetorical icon that shifted conservatives from Goldwater to the Reagan version that has lasted to this day. Not hearing the name, means you cannot have an educated opinion on what is conservatism.

Just fyi, the world doesn't revolve around only US conservatism, some people aren't interested in it and only their own conservatism. Be a little nicer about people's ignorance, not everyone can know everything.

[Felya]

Like I can understand the confusion, because the right wing likes to lay claims to it and them being its paragon, but doesn't make it true

He isn’t talking about Big Tech or all the companies conservatives are bitching about, because they are saying bad things about their election laws. Those liberal companies are in a different compartment... can’t mix contradictions or your head explodes... it happens...

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While it's a judgment call, I'd say she's best known for her fiction pieces, which include conservatism.

Why do you keep repeating it was fiction? That fiction is what I am talking about, as defining conservative ideology of the last 50 years. I don’t understand why it being fiction... matters... it’s how she argued her conservatives philosophy... My location is a quote from No Exit... a fictional story by Jean-Paul Sartre, which espouses his philosophy... I don’t understand your distinction.

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Just fyi, the world doesn't revolve around only US conservatism, some people aren't interested in it and only their own conservatism. Be a little nicer about people's ignorance, not everyone can know everything.

This thread is... and you should ask Boris Johnson about it... or that prick in Brazil... it’s not just US...

[Jonnusthegreat]

Why do you keep repeating it was fiction? That fiction is what I am talking about, as defining conservative ideology of the last 50 years. I don’t understand why it being fiction... matters... it’s how she argued her conservatives philosophy... My location is a quote from No Exit... a fictional story by Jean-Paul Sartre, which espouses his philosophy... I don’t understand your distinction.

Because it being made up is an important distinction. Suzanne Collins wrote a fictional piece recently.

[Felya]

Because it being made up is an important distinction. Suzanne Collins wrote a fictional piece recently.

Why? A lot of philosophy is written through fiction... you can’t really predict results of your ideology, through a practical relationship, without fiction. It’s literally impossible...

[Howel]

This thread is... and you should ask Boris Johnson about it... or that prick in Brazil... it’s not just US...

Which aren't the same brand of conservatism, nor do they draw their line of inspiration back to the exact same as the US. Heck, the British trace back to another women for their conservative evolution.

[Felya]

You even mentioned Orwell... the basis for everything he wrote, is in homage to Catalonia... as in, not fiction... as in auto biographical... The fiction that followed, was a means for him to express his views. Views that were formed through...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

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Which aren't the same brand of conservatism, nor do they draw their line of inspiration back to the exact same as the US. Heck, the British trace back to another women for their conservative evolution.

Here is atlas society comparing her to Rand:

https://www.atlassociety.org/post/ma...ers-compassion

[Jonnusthegreat]

Why? A lot of philosophy is written through fiction... you can’t really predict results of your ideology, through a practical relationship, without fiction. It’s literally impossible...

And making up a story is also not a viable method of predicting results of an ideology.

[Howel]

Here is atlas society comparing her to Rand:

A group solely purposed of spreading Randism, gee, I wonder why they'd take a famous conservative that slightly aligns in the conservative sphere with her and try and bring her under their fold as a Randitie. Surely you can see the purpose in that ploy. And I might also add, Rand hated almost all conservatives, because they weren't extreme enough comparative to her, this retrospective on her behalf after her death, is nothing but a ploy.

Yes conservatives tend to be somewhat alike across borders, doesn't mean there aren't differences, or that all of them have to know who Ayn Rand is and adhere to her specific philosophical doctrine.

[Felya]

And making up a story is also not a viable method of predicting an ideology.

That’s fantastic, then no ideology ever existed.

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A group solely purposed of spreading Randism, gee, I wonder why they'd take a famous conservative that slightly aligns in the conservative sphere with her and try and bring her under their fold as a Randitie. Surely you can see the purpose in that ploy. And I might also add, Rand hated almost all conservatives, because they weren't extreme enough comparative to her, this retrospective on her behalf after her death, is nothing but a ploy.

Yes conservatives tend to be somewhat alike across borders, doesn't mean there aren't differences, or that all of them have to know who Ayn Rand is and adhere to her specific philosophical doctrine.

What’s the ploy? Just 20 years ago, Atlas’s Shrugged was touted as the second most influential book in US, with first being the Bible. At the time, her books didn’t even crack the top 100 in UK. All it is divergent evolution.

Edit: ... and again, we are talking about US in this thread... that’s not a map of Britain in the OP...