Is wow's problem that it lacks proper feedback?

[Sanguinerd]

No single group of players has a voice that's more relevant than any others

You're around long enough to know this is simply not the case.

So no, I don't care to enlighten you because you know full well what I mean.

[Relapses]

You're around long enough to know this is simply not the case.

So no, I don't care to enlighten you because you know full well what I mean.

I mean, if you don't even care to elaborate on your obvious hypocrisy then I don't think there's much to discuss here.

[Drusin]

For example - the community feedback is that we need LESS loot and MORE loot.
The community feedback is that we need LESS hand holding and MORE hand holding.

If the feedback is exactly "we need less loot" and "we need more loot" then I would hope the devs would disregard it because it's useless
If the feedback is "we need less loot because loot isn't meaningful" and "we need more loot because we can't progress" then I would hope the devs address the issues players are having. They want loot to feel more impactful but they also believe lack of loot is holding them back in some area and they should investigate.

[Stormspellz]

when we had multi expansions of alpha/beta players saying "x is a giant problem" only for them to ignore then band aid it months after release leads to me to believe its not the feed backs problem

[Snufflupagus]

Feedback isn't the problem. People give feedback all the time. The problem is evidenced by this thread: Every player is going to have a slightly different mindset as to which feedback "should" be listened to and even in the event Blizzard does respond to the community, there will invariably be crowds of players who will feel like Blizzard either didn't act properly or that the action they took was somehow insufficient. In the 16 years the game has existed, its appeal has broadened so tremendously that it's created factions of players within it, all of whom clamor for (often conflicting) attention. This is why designing the game via democracy would never work. Players in each camp would only become even more emboldened if a democratic approach were to be taken and we'd see players start campaigning like American politics where only their majority (even if it's 51%) voice is acted upon. This leaves Blizzard in the unenviable position of needing to sometimes make changes that they know will alienate portions of the community for the overall health of the game. I can't say they always make the best decisions but they do seem to be trying different things with every expansion. You'll always have the vocal minority on forums here who will be dissatisfied with any decision the company makes but I think the fact that we're even on this message board right now speaks volumes to the overarching success of Blizzard's decision making.

There is a secondary (less relevant, imo) problem of much feedback being completely fucking worthless but this has more to do with players blaming things that they control on things they can't control (ie, MDI sucks, that's why I can't do anything higher than a +8 and clear 3/10N Castle Nathria). This is a societal issue more than anything as one of the loudest complaints in recent memory has come from casual players who are still grappling with Blizzard's shift away from entitlement with their removal of WF/TFing systems.

And again, literally didn’t even read the opening post. Just clicked headline and went for it. This is the problem with the modern internet.

[Relapses]

And again, literally didn’t even read the opening post. Just clicked headline and went for it. This is the problem with the modern internet.

Hey dude. You're cool. Hope you feel better about yourself.

[Nalam the Venom]

That might be best for everyone though wouldn't it?

Someone just hitting random buttons isn't really a positive its why lfr is so often mocked.

WoW is not one of those games.


But i remember a couple of FPS or fighting games being very obnoxious with their tutorials.

[cparle87]

No problem is they listened to the idiot playerbase.

Also they always follow current gaming trends to stay relevant. Which alienates all the original wow players who don't like lootbox style gameplay.

And if there's 5 lootbox guys to 1 "original" WoW player who do you think they should tune the game to? I love how you tribalize the entire situation. If you're an original WoW player you can't like the current system which includes loot boxes.

[Snufflupagus]

Hey dude. You're cool. Hope you feel better about yourself.

I don’t need to feel good about myself, I just wish people would read before they type.

[Zorachus]

I feel a lot of the anguish I see on these forms and in game is that wow never really lets most roles know if they are actually doing their jobs properly. A weak healer can be carried by a good tank and vice versa. A strong dps can carry weaker ones.

Would the game benefit more from having bosses that had a mechanic that individual players had to pass without outside interference to help make it clear when someone is doing something wrong?

If they made mechanics very specific per boss to like one dps only or the healer only, and they wipe, you'd have 4 upset players on that dungeon run. This is an MMO, supposed to be a group game, a ton of players working together, not a solo game where boss mechanics are designed for just one spec.

[Stardrift]

Agreed, I found Mage Tower extremely difficult on all my characters, didn't matter if you had high iLvl gear, it was the mechanics that were tough.

But you got the best looking transmog weapons WoW ever offered, so of course it needed to be hard.

They should bring back into the game.

The mechanics were just "stay out of stuff" or "attack stuff that has you stuck in place"

If that's difficult for you, no matter the ilvl, then.. oh boy lol

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, if you don't even care to elaborate on your obvious hypocrisy then I don't think there's much to discuss here.

When are you gonna get him with the "you're being a hopeless cynic and you are boring"?

The problem clearly lies with feedback. People here, on Twitter, Reddit, and the official forums are all flaming one another and cannot for the life of them provide constructive feedback.

This is why my family, who plays the game while being related to someone else who is close friends with a dev (yes this sounds like I know a guy who knows a guy) was contacted to provide constructive feedback in point form.

Devs reach out to close friends and family who play the game for feedback. They're afraid of coming to places like here because all they see is shit like this thread. Devs have come out in the past and said shit is too toxic to deal with, for crying out loud.

[Relapses]

I don’t need to feel good about myself, I just wish people would read before they type.

There was discussion about feedback to developers in the thread before I responded. I apologize for not quoting the OP and specifically addressing his topic and instead providing a general response to something people were talking about already. I genuinely hope you enjoy the smug satisfaction of gatekeeping the direction of discussion topics on a fan forum for a video game where people slay internet dragons for imaginary loot.

[Tiwack]

It's been tried and it turns out nobody likes finding out that they suck regardless of how it's communicated to them.

I find they'll happily take in ideas on how to plausibly design future zones and fantasies in the game but anything concerning balance and difficulty they rather want to experiment with themselves as it's just a ton of noise they get from players in that regard. If enough reports align in the same direction, they generally take a look at things but it all takes time and ressources to first get their attention and then to fix it without breaking the game.. it's a process and players are bound to feel unheard as it is a lengthy one + very often feeling onesided without response on their part.

[Dudenoso]

I feel a lot of the anguish I see on these forms and in game is that wow never really lets most roles know if they are actually doing their jobs properly. A weak healer can be carried by a good tank and vice versa. A strong dps can carry weaker ones.

Would the game benefit more from having bosses that had a mechanic that individual players had to pass without outside interference to help make it clear when someone is doing something wrong?

Overlapping roles will inevitably lead to that.

Raids are too big. You can't possibly tune 25 man raids without making space for some dead or almost dead weight (if you do, 99% of the player base won't clear it).

A weak healer can be carried by a good tank (and vice versa) because both are responsible for the tank's survivability. F.e. if tanks couldn't improve their survivability so much this wouldn't happen. Of course, they'd have to give tanks something else to do.

Having 25man raids will also inevitably lead to that, unless you isolate each person or split the raid into tiny groups.

Additionally, trying to fix that too hard could possibly make the game feel too much like a single player game.

[Gasparde]

A friend of mine who used to play DPs for the longest time and hasn't really ever tanked since like TBC... has recently started tanking and healing through m+.
It's insane how incredibly aware of absolutely everything he is nowadays - he suddenly started noticing that no one is ever interrupting, he noticed that no one is ever dispelling, people are always standing in the wrong places, people are always doing something utterly stupid one way or another... and he used to be one of those people. And he used to be one of them for a good 10 years. And why was that the case? Because he never had to bother with any of this. He was never shown the value of any of this. Whenever an important cast wasn't kicked... it was the tank getting fucked, the healer getting fucked... and in the rare cases where he was actually getting fucked, it was always someone else's fault.

The game doesn't teach you anything these days. Nothing hurts you, nothing can ever happen to you, you can just outgear absolutely everything until you reach high end mythic raids or high end m+. And even at that point it's not a guarantee that you feel the impact of your unawareness yourself as it's more often than not carried out by other players. He was playing a Warlock for the longest time and simply couldn't be bothered to stop casting to interrupt that +16 Raging Shadowcore cast in DoS, there's other people that'll take care of that... fuck, the tank just has to use some CDs and it's fine, fucking healer still at full mana just heal you lazy cunt. It's insane how drastically all of this shifted when he started to get hit for half of his life from those casts as a tank himself. It's insane how little he cared about shit like Explosives before and now that he has to heal through them he's making it his mission to go fucking ham on these things the second they come up.

Again, he didn't care about that before... because for 99.99% of the game... being aware of what is happening doesn't matter. Being aware of what that mob cast does doesn't matter. Being aware of what that debuff does doesn't matter. Being aware of anything... doesn't matter. Until you start healing or tanking in +20s keys and you notice these things starting to oneshot people. The game is just absolutely horrible at telling people how bad they truly are... and I assume it's intentional, considering that said 99.99% of the game don't care about how good you are, so why invest any effort into that issue.

To adequately tell people how they performed in a dungeon they'd have to go through inane amounts of efforts. Like, at the end of every run they'd have to give you a detailed breakdown of your damage, how you performed compared to other people of your spec, your ilvl, your key level, your time, how many important casts you've let through, how frequently you purged, how much avoidable damage you took.... and then still, most people would just ignore that and keep on being bad. why? Because the game has taught them to not give a fuck for like 10+ years now, they're not suddenly gonna start in random ass mythic plus keys.

Mechanics and consequences need to be taught from the very second your start playing the game. If you train people to just tunnel deeps for 120 levels it's no wonder they're just going to tunnel deeps - thing is, they're not even teaching players that because you can kill pretty much anything as a Mage wanding shit to death in this game. This game isn't teaching players anything. Instead everything in this game is giga forgiving and ultra free... up until that point where you suddenly have this fucking 90° incline of skill required... at which point people understandably can't be fucked to care. There's no steady learning curve in this game, instead everything is half-afk soloable and boom, suddenly everything starts to murder you and you don't know what the fuck is going on.

WoW's "problem" is that there's no way for your average player to become an above average player without extreme amounts of external help. There's no natural path of progression. You might be thinking that normal to heroic to mythic raiding were that, but that path is a joke as most heroic bosses have close to nothing in common with their mythic counterparts and are still stupidly forgiving on every front, let's not even talk about normal bosses having like one mechanic and even if that single mechanic is handled in the worst possible way at worst it's gonna hit your raid for 10% of their hp wooooooooo. WoW's "problem" is that it's accommodating vastly different levels of player skills and that it's trying it's hardest to get the "good" ones to help the "bad" ones but that it's absolutely terrified of telling the "bad" ones that there's more to their game than clicking Arcane Explosion on their strength stacking Feral Druid.