20 man mythic recruitment killing my guild...what about you?

[Hellobolis]

All of these fringe cases you're introducing into the equation aren't necessary right now. Looking from another angle, why bother having to go through all these extra steps for tuning/encounter design when the current system isn't so inherently broken that it necessitates such a change? Logistics are a part of the Mythic raiding experience whether you want to acknowledge it or not..

why bother? to help struggling guilds of course. both those looking to move into mythic, and those already in mythic but with roster issues.

sure logistics is part of the overall experience, but i don't think anyone can deny that it's becoming harder to keep the roster up the last few years, at some point something has to give. and when that point inevitably comes, i'd rather it be a small gradual change rather than w/e sledgehammer fix blizzard can come up with if they wait too long to address it.

[Tiwack]

This expansion players gear with the vault and it's just more time-efficient if not fun to go pvp/m+ rather than raid. Then they get boost/pug aotc if they feel like it to experience the place and the fights and leave it at that. Sure some might fancy mythic raiding but they're not really up for the challenge and time-investment more often than not, rather they just take a break and wait out the next tier at this point.

Going from 10 to 20 often ends up being a clusterfuck when players don't want to admit their mistakes or simply don't know what's going on, making others have to act like detectives to figure out the mess which isn't much fun at all. It doesn't help mythic raids keep getting more and more complicated and blizz' lazy idea of leaving mythic at 20m only.

[kaelix1]

This expansion players gear with the vault and it's just more time-efficient if not fun to go pvp/m+ rather than raid. Then they get boost/pug aotc if they feel like it to experience the place and the fights and leave it at that. Sure some might fancy mythic raiding but they're not really up for the challenge and time-investment more often than not, rather they just take a break and wait out the next tier at this point.

While i abuse the vault as much as i can i do think vault the way it is now its a problem, the vault should be a stepping stone to mythic not giving mythic gear for almost free, the max gear you should get from the vault should be something between hc and mythic level

[Gratz]

I was looking to go for cutting edge over 2 months ago. I'm a havoc DH though

[Relapses]

I'm sick of clearing heroic then not being able to even do mythic cause we're a smaller guild. We're FAR from alone.

Recruit. Players.

This is not a Blizzard problem. It's a you problem.

[Glorious Leader]

Mythic raiding is too hard for the average wow raider, the problem is the average wow raider doesn't realize this and wants to be a mythic clearing raider....

The game really ought to just adopt raider io and explicitly tell people they suck aren't gonna cut it. Then the developers could be fired or at least should be fired and we could get some new blood to make some better decisions.

[Relapses]

why bother? to help struggling guilds of course. both those looking to move into mythic, and those already in mythic but with roster issues.

sure logistics is part of the overall experience, but i don't think anyone can deny that it's becoming harder to keep the roster up the last few years, at some point something has to give. and when that point inevitably comes, i'd rather it be a small gradual change rather than w/e sledgehammer fix blizzard can come up with if they wait too long to address it.

The change you're suggesting is too minutely incremental to have any huge impact on the overall situation, though. Guilds that struggle to find 20 players will still struggle at 19 or 18. You're asking Blizzard to fix a problem that isn't really a problem. The amount of development time such a system would require doesn't really justify the few fringe situations it'd actually help anybody.

[Glorious Leader]

Recruit. Players.

This is not a Blizzard problem. It's a you problem.

This is very good advice and my honest wish is that the game would tell every player with a complaint exactly this in big bold letters in game. That way the current group of developers can find new jobs.

[Relapses]

This is very good advice and my honest wish is that the game would tell every player with a complaint exactly this in big bold letters in game. That way the current group of developers can find new jobs.

If you want to run with a small group of raiders there's two raid difficulties (Normal and Heroic) and even M+ to a lesser extent. Mythic raiding at 20 players has lasted longer than any other raid paradigm Blizzard has tried in the past, if you're unwilling to come to terms with the fact that 10M Heroic raiding is dead and gone nearly a fucking decade after it left then is it really Blizzard's job to appease you?

[Hellobolis]

The change you're suggesting is too minutely incremental to have any huge impact on the overall situation, though. Guilds that struggle to find 20 players will still struggle at 19 or 18. You're asking Blizzard to fix a problem that isn't really a problem. The amount of development time such a system would require doesn't really justify the few fringe situations it'd actually help anybody.

really? making mythic flex over a large amount of players will kill it, but making it flex over a small amount of players won't change anything?

what's your plan then? wait until blizz decides mythic participation is too low to justify making it? pray they only reduce it to 15 people instead of 10? hope they implement recruitment tools that actually work for a change?

were not at the critical point yet, but at some point in the next 2-3 years it's going to become an issue if nothing changes. and i say that as a cutting edge guild that has absolutely no moral qualms over killing other guilds to get our recruits.

[kaminaris]

Recruit. Players.

This is not a Blizzard problem. It's a you problem.

"Just recruit players 4Head" - advice straight up from twitch chat.

Dude, judging from your posts you have no clue how hard is to find new players that actually stays and has at least decent skills. It takes months to find people.
Like a rich guy who had rich parents saying homeless people to just get a home.

[Exkrementor]

My solution proposal would be obvious, reduce the number of people required for mythic content. 15? 10? again, this is the only thing I can really think of, as making mythic content scale-like LFR, normal, and heroic does would just be a balancing nightmare.

You will have the same problem with fewer people. Also if you reduce the number of spots in your raid then less optimal classes which already have a tough time finding a spot will have no chance at all. If you need 3 healers/2 tanks/7 ranges and 3 melees then there is even less room for specs like ret, feral, enhancer, windwalker. Also have fun playing a mistweaver with 3 spots for 6 healing specs when you already only really need resto shamans anyway.

I personally would suggest making raids 25 man again since there are so many new specs that cant be played because mages and warlocks are op for 15 years now.

[Relapses]

really? making mythic flex over a large amount of players will kill it, but making it flex over a small amount of players won't change anything?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

what's your plan then? wait until blizz decides mythic participation is too low to justify making it? pray they only reduce it to 15 people instead of 10? hope they implement recruitment tools that actually work for a change?

were not at the critical point yet, but at some point in the next 2-3 years it's going to become an issue if nothing changes. and i say that as a cutting edge guild that has absolutely no moral qualms over killing other guilds to get our recruits.

People have talked about this "critical point" since before Mythic raiding at 20M was even a thing. There are decade-old threads full of people making the same fucking arguments you see in this thread. My position then is the same as it is now: The current system isn't broken and doesn't need to be fixed. There could be more tools for guild recruitment built into the game but this isn't a problem with the current raid paradigm.

[Bugsy]

This is a really shitty take. We have been progressing since launch as a new guild, working our way up from normal > heroic > into mythic. Yeah, not ideal but we started with nothing, and some members had little experience. They were bodies, now they are core raiders and do pretty well. We're 8/10M currently, we just need more people to be consistent, but the problem is that as others have said, there's not a whole lot of free agents going around currently.

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False, another shitty take from MMO champ /clap

It's really isn't, sometimes the truth hurts. You are trying to push mythic progression too late in the tier to attract the type of people who will stick around. Guilds don't work up the ladder like you said. If you've been progression since launch, and your this late into the tier as 8/10... you're a heroic guild who can do some mythic fights. Nothings wrong with that, but if you push your core, they will burnout. And if they've been going since launch, they probably already are. You've built up a group to get 8/10M, work on the community aspect of your guild, friendships, fun stuff and give them a break and prep for 9.1.

[Glorious Leader]

If you want to run with a small group of raiders there's two raid difficulties (Normal and Heroic) and even M+ to a lesser extent. Mythic raiding at 20 players has lasted longer than any other raid paradigm Blizzard has tried in the past, if you're unwilling to come to terms with the fact that 10M Heroic raiding is dead and gone nearly a fucking decade after it left then is it really Blizzard's job to appease you?

To be frank I honestly don't give a shit. They could remove evwry single raid mode tmmrw and it would be the best thing to happen to the game IMHO. What I was driving at was that I'm fairly certain the developers are equally as blase about their concerns as you are and i just wish they were honest enough to say hey fuck you buddy exactly as you did.

[Relapses]

"Just recruit players 4Head" - advice straight up from twitch chat.

Dude, judging from your posts you have no clue how hard is to find new players that actually stays and has at least decent skills. It takes months to find people.
Like a rich guy who had rich parents saying homeless people to just get a home.

Okay, so this guy, almost a decade ago, sees that Blizzard is moving the hardest difficulty raid to a single larger raid size and decides that instead of recruiting new players he'll spend the next 8 fucking years complaining that his voice isn't heard...and that's somehow Blizzard's fault? Get real dude.

[Azerate]

The RWF being more and more popular every tier pretty much ensures Mythic raiding isn't going anywhere any time soon. This is a ridiculous outlook.

Yes, but on the other hand you have the decline in people actually participating in that content. At some point it will become a question of "is the hype generated by the event worth the development time and money" and at that point we might see the removal of the difficulty

[Glorious Leader]

"Just recruit players 4Head" - advice straight up from twitch chat.

Dude, judging from your posts you have no clue how hard is to find new players that actually stays and has at least decent skills. It takes months to find people.
Like a rich guy who had rich parents saying homeless people to just get a home.

Yes he's clearly privileged but more importantly the developers are as well since they came from established raiding guilds.

[kaminaris]

Okay, so this guy, almost a decade ago, sees that Blizzard is moving the hardest difficulty raid to a single larger raid size and decides that instead of recruiting new players he'll spend the next 8 fucking years complaining that his voice isn't heard...and that's somehow Blizzard's fault? Get real dude.

I am "real" dude, I did recruiting for good couple of months. You, on the other hand, are completely disconnected from reality. I spent countless hours on HR and spamming, way more than actually playing the game only for guild to merge with another one.

[Nalam the Venom]

I won’t step foot in another raid unless they become significantly easier.

I only raid for better gear, so if same or better ilvl gear can be gained elsewhere then raiding has no point.