1. #5501
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.
    Then you answered your own question, and you shouldn't have any dubious thoughts regarding Runemaster.

    Runemaster has relevance from WC3 and Wrath of the Lich King if you believed Arthas was a Runemaster by default.

  2. #5502
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then you answered your own question, and you shouldn't have any dubious thoughts regarding Runemaster.

    Runemaster has relevance from WC3 and Wrath of the Lich King if you believed Arthas was a Runemaster by default.
    Except the belief is that Runemaster was a stand alone class concept. Since Death Knight were already runemasters, then the stand alone class concept never really existed in the first place.

  3. #5503
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except the belief is that Runemaster was a stand alone class concept. Since Death Knight were already runemasters, then the stand alone class concept never really existed in the first place.
    Right.

    Which means your belief was wrong, since the Devs have confirmed their Class considerations goes against your belief, and not in favour of it.

    But hey, the koolaid is stronger than truth I guess. I mean, if you think Arthas using runes makes him a Runemaster, you might as well go all the way and say he's a Demon Hunter too since he hunted Demons. Who are we to argue what you believe?

  4. #5504
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.
    Priests had mana burn a Demon Hunter ability, does that make Priests Demon Hunters? Rogues had evasion does that make Rogues Demon Hunters? Warlocks had metamorphosis for years but that didn't make them "demon hunters" in concept

    Pre-WoLK the only example of a character, class or anything WoW related bearing the name "runemaster" was the TTRPG Runemaster, which is a monk-like unarmed fighter who enhances themselves with runes.

    Death Knights possessing a runeblade doesn't make them "runemasters" because thats a more specific concept that existed in the TTRPG, before Runemasters appeared in WoW and before Death Knights were given rune-based abilities beyond flavor text.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-04-12 at 06:54 PM.

  5. #5505
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Priests had mana burn a Demon Hunter ability, does that make Priests Demon Hunters? Rogues had evasion does that make Rogues Demon Hunters? Warlocks had metamorphosis for years but that didn't make them "demon hunters" in concept
    Well, he did argue for years that Demon Hunters weren't gonna be playable because of all the reasons you just posted :P

  6. #5506
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Right.

    Which means your belief was wrong, since the Devs have confirmed their Class considerations goes against your belief, and not in favour of it.
    And again, we have multiple examples of WoW devs being dishonest about future classes and content.

    But hey, the koolaid is stronger than truth I guess. I mean, if you think Arthas using runes makes him a Runemaster, you might as well go all the way and say he's a Demon Hunter too since he hunted Demons. Who are we to argue what you believe?
    Considering that we have no clear definition of what a Runemaster is, why couldn’t a master user of a rune blades not be considered a “runemaster”?

  7. #5507
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Considering that we have no clear definition of what a Runemaster is, why couldn’t a master user of a rune blades not be considered a “runemaster”?
    We have a clear definition of what Necromancer is and you still consider the Death Knight to be a Necromancer.

    I mean, what point is there to have a clear definition or not? You'd just as likely argue that Arthas was a Demon Hunter because he hunted Demons. Heck, he's even a Blademaster since he mastered the use of a bladed weapon, Frostmourne.

  8. #5508
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Priests had mana burn a Demon Hunter ability, does that make Priests Demon Hunters? Rogues had evasion does that make Rogues Demon Hunters? Warlocks had metamorphosis for years but that didn't make them "demon hunters" in concept
    Demon Hunters were a defined concept, crystallized by Illidan, the hero unit, and Demon Hunters in TBC. Runemasters had nothing like that.

    Pre-WoLK the only example of a character, class or anything WoW related bearing the name "runemaster" was the TTRPG Runemaster, which is a monk-like unarmed fighter who enhances themselves with runes.
    And it was never a well defined concept outside of the TTRPG.

    Death Knights possessing a runeblade doesn't make them "runemasters" because thats a more specific concept that existed in the TTRPG, before Runemasters appeared in WoW and before Death Knights were given rune-based abilities beyond flavor text.
    The problem is that we never saw such a concept in WoW itself. Instead, the concept of runeblades were carried over from WC3 and expanded upon within the DK class. The TTRPG runemaster concept was completely ignored. Even the Runemasters that appeared in WoW were not Monk-like, and actually reinforced the runic concept pushed by the DK class.

  9. #5509
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And again, we have multiple examples of WoW devs being dishonest about future classes and content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Considering that we have no clear definition of what a Runemaster is, why couldn’t a master user of a rune blades not be considered a “runemaster”?
    Except the Runemaster was a clear concept, from the TTRPG who enhances themselves with runes and fights unarmed

    "Runemasters are monk-like arcane spellcaster and melee fighters who empower themselves with magical energies by inscribing runes onto their bodies."
    "He merges brute strength with arcane magic, covering his body with mystic tattoos and often imbuing them with magical energies to increase his skill in hand-to-hand combat. "
    "Runemasters fill many roles. They are adept melee combatants. They possess runes to enhance themselves and their allies, as well as to ward certain areas and otherwise make life difficult for their opponents."

    All of this comes from the TTRPG released years before Wrath of the Lich King.

    Death Knights beyond flavor text and lore had no explicitly rune-based powers or abilities, runic power, runeforging all of that was added in Wrath which is after the Death Knight absorbed concepts surrounding the other runner-ups the Runemaster and Necromancer (from which it also got abilities like corpse explosion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And it was never a well defined concept outside of the TTRPG.
    Do you think Blizzard wasn't taking inspiration from the TTRPG when they though of a monk-like fighter who enhanced themselves with Runes? sharing the exact same name as it's TTRPG counterpart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The problem is that we never saw such a concept in WoW itself. Instead, the concept of runeblades were carried over from WC3 and expanded upon within the DK class. The TTRPG runemaster concept was completely ignored. Even the Runemasters that appeared in WoW were not Monk-like, and actually reinforced the runic concept pushed by the DK class.
    We never saw Mistweaving until MoP, the same expansion it was introduced in, same with celestials, chi, chinese style martial arts, there are like 5 NPC's in the whole game who use the title Runemaster, thats like judging what the Monk class would be entirely from the this NPC or judging everything the Demon Hunter class would do from the mobs found in BC.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-04-12 at 07:19 PM.

  10. #5510
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm merely asking in what scenario do you have a WotLK expansion and your three choices are DK, Runemaster, and Necromancer and you DON'T go with the DK.
    Ask the developers. They're the one that thought the runemaster was a worthwhile addition. And the fact the runemaster was considered, it not only counters the idea that we need WC3 units as a basis, but it also counters the notion that a class must be tied to a 'big hero/villain' in the expansion.

    Not to mention your argument here is an "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "there's no way any other class could be considered because I cannot think of anything."

    But those ideas from the other concepts were already wrapped up in the DK concept long before WotLK came around. Again, DKs had concepts from both Runemasters and Necromancers, so in what scenario do you go with those options when you have the more popular concept that encapsulates your other concepts?
    They haven't, though. Being able to use necromancy is not exclusive to necromancers. Death knights and dark rangers also use necromancy. And wielding weapons (or amor) with runes engraved on them certainly does not mean the class is a "master of runes", either. Otherwise, my paladin is a runemaster too, then.

    Perhaps the same reason they lied about having "no plans" for the Demon Hunter class in early 2015, only to announce the Demon Class in August of the same year.
    Wrong. That was not what they said. They said they had no plans to share about the possibility of a demon hunter class, not that they didn't have any plans for the demon hunter.

    Or how Blizzard denied that Mists of Pandaria was the next expansion, only to announce Mists of Pandaria as the next expansion a few months later.
    Those are nowhere near the same thing as "lying about what classes they have once in the past considered." The Demon Hunter and Mists of Pandaria were only they had no plans they wanted to share, considering that speaking of those ahead of time would spoil the surprise of the reveal. With the runemaster? What exactly are they spoiling about revealing that they once considered the runemaster as a potential expansion class? Nothing.

    And again: Teriz, stop dismissing what the developers say when it doesn't fit your narrative.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.
    Are you really arguing that wielding a runeblade makes one into a runemaster by default?
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-04-12 at 07:47 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #5511
    The rune carving aspects of Runemasters was obviously absorbed by Death Knights and the Martial Arts aspect was obviously absorbed by Monks. There's also the problem that we see literally zero Runemasters throughout the entire lore of the playable game. Runemaster is a half baked concept to begin with, cool but it isn't canon.

  12. #5512
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    Except the Runemaster was a clear concept, from the TTRPG who enhances themselves with runes and fights unarmed
    And it isn't canon.

    "Runemasters are monk-like arcane spellcaster and melee fighters who empower themselves with magical energies by inscribing runes onto their bodies."
    "He merges brute strength with arcane magic, covering his body with mystic tattoos and often imbuing them with magical energies to increase his skill in hand-to-hand combat. "
    "Runemasters fill many roles. They are adept melee combatants. They possess runes to enhance themselves and their allies, as well as to ward certain areas and otherwise make life difficult for their opponents."

    All of this comes from the TTRPG released years before Wrath of the Lich King.
    And again, it isn't canon. In addition, the Death Knight hero predates the TTRPG. Further, we have no example of a TTRPG Runemaster in WoW itself.

    Death Knights beyond flavor text and lore had no explicitly rune-based powers or abilities, runic power, runeforging all of that was added in Wrath which is after the Death Knight absorbed concepts surrounding the other runner-ups the Runemaster and Necromancer (from which it also got abilities like corpse explosion)
    Again, Arthas using Frostmourne goes beyond simple flavor text. That ties the Death Knight concept to the use of runes and runic power, and the flavor text simply backs up what we see Arthas do throughout RoC and TFT. The hero unit doesn't need explicit abilities to further that theme, it's a part of the lore of the Death Knight itself.

    Do you think Blizzard wasn't taking inspiration from the TTRPG when they though of a monk-like fighter who enhanced themselves with Runes? sharing the exact same name as it's TTRPG counterpart?
    I don't know where Blizzard took the inspiration for the TTRPG Runemaster from. However, it's awfully interesting that the DK had a hero character (Arthas), had a WC3 hero to define its abilities (DK), and had DKs appear in WoW before its introduction. The Runemaster had none of that treatment. So it's a little hard for me to believe that it was on equal conceptual footing with the DK concept.

    We never saw Mistweaving until MoP, the same expansion it was introduced in, same with celestials, chi, chinese style martial arts, there are like 5 NPC's in the whole game who use the title Runemaster, thats like judging what the Monk class would be entirely from the this NPC or judging everything the Demon Hunter class would do from the mobs found in BC.
    You're comparing a spec to an entire concept. The Monk class had Chen Stormstout, the WC3 Brewmaster hero, and the entire Pandaren lore and concept. Again, the Runemaster had nothing like that.

  13. #5513
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    The rune carving aspects of Runemasters was obviously absorbed by Death Knights and the Martial Arts aspect was obviously absorbed by Monks. There's also the problem that we see literally zero Runemasters throughout the entire lore of the playable game. Runemaster is a half baked concept to begin with, cool but it isn't canon.
    I don't think the Runemasters viability as a class is the question (as you said it's two major aspects runecarving and martial arts have gone to different classes) but the fact that it was considered twice for implimentation (once in classic and again with WoLK) shows that Blizzard doesn't only consider WC3 hero units when it comes to new classes since the Runemaster as a class only existed in the TTRPG

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are you really arguing that wielding a runeblade makes one into a runemaster by default?
    You can also add Fire Mages to the list of Runemasters since they used a Runeblade Felo'melorn throughout the entire Legion expansion.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-04-12 at 08:20 PM.

  14. #5514
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Ask the developers. They're the one that thought the runemaster was a worthwhile addition. And the fact the runemaster was considered, it not only counters the idea that we need WC3 units as a basis, but it also counters the notion that a class must be tied to a 'big hero/villain' in the expansion.
    Except we never got a Runemaster class. Instead every class we got since Vanilla has had a WC3 basis, and is tied to a big hero/villain in the expansion.

    Not to mention your argument here is an "appeal to ignorance" fallacy: "there's no way any other class could be considered because I cannot think of anything."
    I never made that argument. I'm saying that the supposed conceptual classes which were competing with the DK were already a part of the DK concept, which makes it doubtful that they were ever truly possible independent class concepts.

    BTW, the lack of a Necromancer class in Shadowlands reinforces this argument.


    They haven't, though. Being able to use necromancy is not exclusive to necromancers. Death knights and dark rangers also use necromancy. And wielding weapons (or amor) with runes engraved on them certainly does not mean the class is a "master of runes", either. Otherwise, my paladin is a runemaster too, then.
    You're seriously comparing an item to integral lore surrounding the Death Knight?

    Those are nowhere near the same thing as "lying about what classes they have once in the past considered." The Demon Hunter and Mists of Pandaria were only they had no plans they wanted to share, considering that speaking of those ahead of time would spoil the surprise of the reveal. With the runemaster? What exactly are they spoiling about revealing that they once considered the runemaster as a potential expansion class? Nothing.
    I never said they were lying. I said that they have been dishonest or misled in the past. For example, Tom Chilton stating rebuking rumors around MoP being the next expansion;

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110925...1191590p1.html



    What's the reason? As I said before, it makes future classes rather easy to predict. So why not toss a few non-starters into the mix to make people believe they have hundreds of class concepts while we ignore the fact that the last three expansion classes are all from WC3, all major hero characters, and were hinted at years before their debut.

  15. #5515
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What's the reason? As I said before, it makes future classes rather easy to predict. So why not toss a few non-starters into the mix to make people believe they have hundreds of class concepts while we ignore the fact that the last three expansion classes are all from WC3, all major hero characters, and were hinted at years before their debut.
    If I recall correctly, the developers that gave commentary concerning Runemasters had long since left Blizzard.

    What motive would they have for lying?

  16. #5516
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Does joing the Venthyr give you the option to make your character look pale, with red eyes? Does it give you abilities that let your character siphon blood?
    No? There you go.
    You'd have racial abilities of the Venthyr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Turalyon is a paladin in WC2. Alleria is an archer unit in WC2. Khadgar is a mage in WC2.

    And even without all that, there is one inescapable fact, here: all your distinctions are purely arbitrary. They're nothing but your own opinion. I'm sorry (no, I'm not), but this is a fact.


    Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.

    It's not meaningless. Because the HotS Illidan plays nothing like the WC3 demon hunter unit. Their abilities are nothing alike, too. The HotS version has many ways to quickly get up-and-personal with the enemies, while the WC3 stays at range when in metamorphosis. HotS version self-heals, while WC3 version has self-immolation.
    That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

    Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.

    No, we don't. I don't need to know exactly where a person comes from to know it's a foreigner. Suffices to know that they don't live in the same country as I do.
    Foreigner is too general for me. It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.

    We can, though. Pandas aren't exactly something Blizzard created, you know? Nor the drunken fighting. Or chi.
    A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.
    Though, it doesn't matter if characters are outsourced to older, historic ones, because this whole game is based on inspiration from other sources like mythologies, fantasy settings and RPG games. It's not specific for classes.

    I can, actually. It's easy to make an argument that the WC3 pandaren brewmaster was used for flavor and a link to a notable NPC.
    Sure thing, buddy. -_-
    The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...

    Not the same thing. We're talking about playable classes here.
    Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.

    Yeah, it doesn't. Because "unique fighting style" does not equate to "oriental style martial arts". And "drunken brawler"? Really? Any drunkard that starts a fight is a "drunken brawler".
    Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
    It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.

    Except I'm not making things up. Anchorites are really just a different name for 'priests' for the draenei. And the tauren's Sunwalkers? They're paladins, but they don't use the Light.
    No shit, sherlock. -_-
    Eredar Mages were called Wakeners.

    It doesn't change the fact that the San'layn are more a 'true vampire' than the Venthyr. Venthyr don't suck blood, San'layn do. San'layn are literally 'born' from being bitten. Venthyr just... are born out of souls. And more.
    There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    incorrect, everyone does, like i showed to you.

    every single race can pick hunter
    Not all Hunters are rangers in lore.

    you did, and if you used the two neurons to read the rest you could see that there is multiple races who fit that description and are also called rangers like orcs and pandarens

    you are again, cherypicking evidence
    Everything fits if you push it hard enough.
    Point is, they would have been mentioned if they were rangers.

    im talking about lore points, dark rangers are forsaken only, if they are teaching other races they can teach any race who can shot a bow
    Wrong again.
    Dark Rangers are not forsaken only, but undead High elves, Night elves and Humans, too.
    This can be attributed to their ranger backgrounds in life.

    nope, its your headcanon, totally wrong.
    Whatever you say...
    *Literally backing up my argument with lore sources, but who cares, eh?*

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Venthyr require anima to continue existing like literally every other denizen of the Shadowlands. If they became playable, Blizzard would literally be throwing away the most important element of the expansion. So yes, if covenant races became playable, Blizzard would be shitting all over the lore they JUST established in Shadowlands. Because anima doesn't exist outside the Shadowlands.
    I wouldn't be concerned about that as much as their exposure to light.

    They could learn to sustain themselves on other things, like Blood elves and Nightborne learned to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Nothing exclude another race from becoming a Dark Ranger, the only thing that limited it were the trainers
    If you're not using lore, then yes.
    But, that's just shitty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Meh. Denizens of the Shadowlands have always traversed to Azeroth (e.g. Kyrian, loa, Drust, etc.). They've already taken on important roles in the cosmic war (i.e. Necrolords). Anima is inherently in souls, so it's not dependent on the Shadowlands.
    Exactly.
    Much like how undead need to drain lives to sustain/repair themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Your general assertion is correct.

    The original WoW classes are combinations of multiple classes and units. The Warlock for example is largely a class that took multiple demonic abilities from various heroes and units and combined it into a class. Shaman took multiple abilities from multiple Shaman units and combined them into a class.

    The expansion classes took a slightly different route. They've been based entirely on individual hero characters dating back to WC3, and the class is introduced in expansions heavily themed around the expansions they were released in.

    As it currently stands, the only class concepts that match the previous inclusions are Dark Ranger and the Tinker. Dark Ranger is in a rather precarious position due to Sylvanas' situation in the current expansion, and Nathanos (and Dark Rangers in general) being heavily tied to the Hunter class.

    The Tinker is in a rather strong position due to Gazlowe now being the leader of the Goblin race within the Horde, and that Tinker abilities still remain outside the class line up, and there are a lot of Tinker abilities.
    I'm not falling into that trap again.
    This is the last time you try to shove the Tinker into my throat.

    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    The rune carving aspects of Runemasters was obviously absorbed by Death Knights and the Martial Arts aspect was obviously absorbed by Monks. There's also the problem that we see literally zero Runemasters throughout the entire lore of the playable game. Runemaster is a half baked concept to begin with, cool but it isn't canon.
    Actually, there are Dregmar Runebrand (Magnataur), Runemaster Molgeim (Iron Vrykul), Runemaster Skomjorn (Vrykul), Iron Rune Runemaster (Iron Dwarf) and Gorian Runemaster (Ogre).
    They use abilities like:
    Rune Shield — Protects the caster from all damage for 30 sec.
    Shield of Runes — Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to 20000 damage. If 20000 damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by 50% for 15 sec.
    Rune of Power — Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by 50% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards.
    Rune of Death — Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals 2750 Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within 13 yards of that location. Only available when under the affect of [Supercharge].
    Rune of Summoning — Creates a Rune of Summoning near a random enemy. This rune will periodically summon Lightning Elementals, which will rush towards random enemies and explode. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.
    Lightning Blast — Unleashes a large blast of lightning, dealing 9425 to 10575 Nature damage to all enemies within 30 yards of the caster but killing the caster in the process. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.

    Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.
    Rune of Disintegration - Conjures a field of arcane energy that persists for 30 sec. Enemies within the field suffer 12500 Arcane damage every 0.5 sec.
    Rune of Unmaking - Inflcits 17005 to 18795 Arcane damage to an enemy.
    Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.

    Runemaster's Pauldrons
    Item Level 910
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Legion Legendary (1)
    Leather
    Shoulder
    301 Armor
    +1786 Agility
    +2680 Stamina
    +827 Critical Strike
    +459 Haste
    Equip: Metamorphosis resets the remaining cooldown on all your Sigils and Empower Wards, and grants you 1 charge of Demon Spikes.
    Durability 120 / 120
    Classes: Demon Hunter
    Requires Level 110
    "Molgeim of the Assembly of Iron mastered the use of runes for a myriad of devastating effects."

    As for the discussion going on here about Runemasters. Rune magic is not unique to Death Knights. Runemasters don't even portray a human, but mostly Tauren in the RPG sources and other non-Death Knight races in the game (like i listed above) except for maybe two (Vrykul and Ogre) which are, currently, not playable.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_magic
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-04-12 at 08:52 PM.

  17. #5517
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except we never got a Runemaster class. Instead every class we got since Vanilla has had a WC3 basis, and is tied to a big hero/villain in the expansion.
    But it doesn't matter, though. The simple fact that the runemaster concept was one of the three finalists despite not having a "WC3 basis", beating other concepts that not only have "WC3 basis" but also were much more popular, like demon hunter and tinker, proves that "needs WC3 basis" is not a requirement, and exists solely in your head.

    I'm saying that the supposed conceptual classes which were competing with the DK were already a part of the DK concept, which makes it doubtful that they were ever truly possible independent class concepts.
    Except they weren't. Wielding a runic blade does not make one a runemaster. Again: my paladin wields a runeblade. Is my paladin a runemaster, then? You're cheapening the concept of the runemaster by saying all there needs to be done for one to be a runemaster is to wield a runeblade.

    BTW, the lack of a Necromancer class in Shadowlands reinforces this argument.
    It does not, as explained many times, already.

    You're seriously comparing an item to integral lore surrounding the Death Knight?
    Yes, I am. Because you're misrepresenting the lore. All it is said about the WC3 death knight is that they wield runeblades. It doesn't say they are the ones that create the runeblades. It doesn't say that the death knights are masters of runes. You're making a gigantic leap of logic here, one that also makes my paladin a runemaster because, again, my paladin wields a runeblade.

    I never said they were lying. I said that they have been dishonest or misled in the past.
    By accusing them of telling a "dubious story" and that they're "misleading" you, you are saying they lied. If you're accusing them of not telling the truth, you are calling them liars.

    For example, Tom Chilton stating rebuking rumors around MoP being the next expansion;

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110925...1191590p1.html
    They never outright said that "mists of pandaria" is not going to be the next expansion.

    What's the reason? As I said before, it makes future classes rather easy to predict. So why not toss a few non-starters into the mix to make people believe they have hundreds of class concepts while we ignore the fact that the last three expansion classes are all from WC3, all major hero characters, and were hinted at years before their debut.
    Extremely made up nonsense. Again, lying about the runemaster being one of the top three picks for Wrath in nothing helps Blizzard. "Predicting classes" is a non-issue, considering people literally keep watch of what Blizzard trademarks, examine each and every possible "seed" within the game, and even read between the lines in their books, comics and other Warcraft-related games.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #5518
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You'd have racial abilities of the Venthyr.





    Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.



    That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

    Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.



    Foreigner is too general for me. It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.



    A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.
    Though, it doesn't matter if characters are outsourced to older, historic ones, because this whole game is based on inspiration from other sources like mythologies, fantasy settings and RPG games. It's not specific for classes.



    Sure thing, buddy. -_-
    The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...



    Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.



    Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
    It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.



    No shit, sherlock. -_-
    Eredar Mages were called Wakeners.



    There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.



    Not all Hunters are rangers in lore.



    Everything fits if you push it hard enough.
    Point is, they would have been mentioned if they were rangers.



    Wrong again.
    Dark Rangers are not forsaken only, but undead High elves, Night elves and Humans, too.
    This can be attributed to their ranger backgrounds in life.



    Whatever you say...
    *Literally backing up my argument with lore sources, but who cares, eh?*



    I wouldn't be concerned about that as much as their exposure to light.

    They could learn to sustain themselves on other things, like Blood elves and Nightborne learned to do.



    If you're not using lore, than yes.
    But, that's just shitty.



    Exactly.
    Much like how undead need to drain lives to sustain/repair themselves.



    I'm not falling into that trap again.
    This is the last time you try to shove the Tinker into my throat.



    Actually, there are Dregmar Runebrand (Magnataur), Runemaster Molgeim (Iron Vrykul), Runmaster Skomjorn (Vrykul), Iron Rune Runemaster (Iron Dwarf) and Gorian Runemaster (Ogre).
    They use abilities like:
    Rune Shield — Protects the caster from all damage for 30 sec.
    Shield of Runes — Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to 20000 damage. If 20000 damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by 50% for 15 sec.
    Rune of Power — Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by 50% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards.
    Rune of Death — Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals 2750 Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within 13 yards of that location. Only available when under the affect of [Supercharge].
    Rune of Summoning — Creates a Rune of Summoning near a random enemy. This rune will periodically summon Lightning Elementals, which will rush towards random enemies and explode. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.
    Lightning Blast — Unleashes a large blast of lightning, dealing 9425 to 10575 Nature damage to all enemies within 30 yards of the caster but killing the caster in the process. Only available with 2 stacks of Supercharge.

    Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.
    Rune of Disintegration - Conjures a field of arcane energy that persists for 30 sec. Enemies within the field suffer 12500 Arcane damage every 0.5 sec.
    Rune of Unmaking - Inflcits 17005 to 18795 Arcane damage to an enemy.
    Rune of Destruction - Marks an enemy with destructive arcane energy, inflicting 18525 to 20475 Arcane damage to them and their allies within 6 yards for 15 sec.

    Runemaster's Pauldrons
    Item Level 910
    Binds when picked up
    Unique-Equipped: Legion Legendary (1)
    Leather
    Shoulder
    301 Armor
    +1786 Agility
    +2680 Stamina
    +827 Critical Strike
    +459 Haste
    Equip: Metamorphosis resets the remaining cooldown on all your Sigils and Empower Wards, and grants you 1 charge of Demon Spikes.
    Durability 120 / 120
    Classes: Demon Hunter
    Requires Level 110
    "Molgeim of the Assembly of Iron mastered the use of runes for a myriad of devastating effects."

    As for the discussion going on here about Runemasters. Rune magic is not unique to Death Knights. Runemasters don't even portray a human, but mostly Tauren in the RPG sources and other non-Death Knight races in the game (like i listed above) except for maybe two (Vrykul and Ogre) which are, currently, not playable.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_magic
    You just.....really don't care about lore unless it suits your narrative huh? Races in the Shadowlands can't leave for extended amounts of time because their existence depends on anima. So making them playable would make no fucking sense from a lore standpoint. Though I'm not sure why I'm bothering because you perpetually pick and choose lore tidbits instead of looking at the entire picture.

  19. #5519
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,866
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Claiming one's argument is arbitrary because you're frustrated in your inability to prove me wrong, doesn't make you any righter.
    It is arbitrary, though. You came up with those based on observation alone. There is nothing that makes your "rules" a fact.

    That's what called an updated and modern iteration of a 20 year old unit.

    Does Illidan in HotS have Evasion & Metamorphosis abilities and an Immolation talent? yes. He's only lacking Mana Burn, because it, probably, didn't fit much.
    Except the HotS hero plays nothing like the WC3 unit. "Updating" means improving what is there, not removing what it has and putting new, different stuff. That's like saying the spoon is an "updated and modern iteration" of the fork done by removing the fork's teeth and undulating the flat par.

    Foreigner is too general for me.
    That's on you, though. Not me.

    It's like saying all classes come from Warcraft. We need more specific information if we'd want to predict classes.
    Except we're not trying to "predict classes", here. We're talking specifically about the monk class. If we want to predict classes, we need to see what Blizzard is doing within the game's lore right now, not scour previous games and see what player units are still unused.

    A panda martial artist? Can only think of Po.
    Pandas are one of China's most popular, well, anything. I don't think there's anything out of China that is more popular than the panda. And also we have oriental-style martial arts. It's not hard to put both together when we're talking about a game with anthropomorphic animals, I hope.

    Sure thing, buddy. -_-
    The Pandaren Brewmaster was, merely, a small tribute That's why it appeared on the game box, cinematic trailer, in game, ushered in the Monk class and, basically, was the inspiration for the entire expansion. But, whatever you say...
    I would say that the entirety of Pandaria and its culture was derived from chinese culture, considering the monk class concept in popular media is of an oriental-style character.

    Yes, it is. Early considerations are not as profound as those that are, actually, implemented. There are several stages for an expansion idea: brainstorming, drafts, pre-production and implementation.
    No, they're not. Classes are not designed the same way as stuff like Dance Studio or an in-game profession. And the point that the runemaster was indeed considered twice, and almost made the cut, shows that we don't need Warcraft 3 heroes to base a class on.

    Oh, yeah... i bet they fight like a drunken irish boxer -_-
    It was, pretty, obvious. You're just trying to find excuses.
    It's only obvious if you're engaging in confirmation bias.

    There's nothing original about San'layn. They're vampiric Blood elves, like FelBlood elves. Venthyr don't need to suck blood. Their anima manipulation and consumption is enough to correlate them to vampirism. It's obvious when their castle is based on Dracula's castle and their use of Gargoyles and Carriages are a testimony to old vampire depictions.
    I never said the San'layn are original, so I don't know why you decided to point that out. I simply pointed out that the San'layn are more like "true vampires" than the venthyr, considering the San'layn are actually born out of a blood curse, are undead, and require to drain blood. The venthyr are none of that.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  20. #5520
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You just.....really don't care about lore unless it suits your narrative huh? Races in the Shadowlands can't leave for extended amounts of time because their existence depends on anima. So making them playable would make no fucking sense from a lore standpoint. Though I'm not sure why I'm bothering because you perpetually pick and choose lore tidbits instead of looking at the entire picture.
    Will you ever learn to crop your quotes?

    And, you don't have any idea of how much time they can spend outside the Shadowlands. How much time did Draka and her mentor spend on that planet, huh?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •