5,800 Workers Voting to Unionize Their Amazon Facility

[Karreck]

LOL using an extreme to the defend the union screwing it's members out of wages. Here is a better one that is far more realistic unlike the BS one you put out. if 499 out of a 1,000 want pay raises but 501 don't care, should the union ignore the 499 at the next bargaining meeting?

Couple of things here.
First, how many other issues on the table have 60% majority? Or 70% majority? What about 80% or higher? Because those issues take negotiating priority to an issue with only 49% support.
Second, the art of negotiation. If 80% of members want expanded healthcare benefits and 49% want higher pay, the vast majority of unions will put forth both for negotiation. But the priority goes to the issue with 80% support. So if cutting the 49% backed issue means passage of the 80% backed issue, you cut the 49% issue. You want both, but you focus on the higher supported issue in bargaining.
Third, why didn't your "family members" try to convince some of the holdouts if the margins were so close? Every union meeting I have been to has allowed for people to speak on Union issues as part of New Business. We have an issue in my Union that didn't have a lot of support when it was first suggested, but after a few years and some convincing arguments in meetings, we voted to make it part of our negotiating goals. Did your "family members" just give up?

There were far more than my family members who were upset. It is beyond amazing how far you will go to kiss the unions ass and condone them keeping their members working for slave wages, yet you scream at corporations and accused them of doing it. Your level of hypocrisy is staggering

Show me where I "screamed" at corporations for slave wages.
I dare you to link to my exact words.
Show me.

[Slant]

So if 1 person out of a 1,000 Union feels that only vegan employees should receive a pay raise, should the Union push for that at the next bargaining meeting?

That's not how unions work. They are democratic institutions and vote on what they want to push through. That 1 person wanting to get a vegan pay rise is going to have one hell of a job convincing 999 other people his wish is a high priority.

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LOL using an extreme to the defend the union screwing it's members out of wages. Here is a better one that is far more realistic unlike the BS one you put out. if 499 out of a 1,000 want pay raises but 501 don't care, should the union ignore the 499 at the next bargaining meeting?

I thought you wanted to bring a no BS example. Here's a quick insight view from the real world: Unions ALWAYS want a pay rise. That's the #1 item on every meeting. It's the main reason why they exist. Followed closely by increased benefits, better working conditions and better job protection. All of those items are ALWAYS going to be on the list. The question is not if the unions demand it, the question is how strongly they demand it and how many percent that pay rise is going to be.

It's like some people in this discussion have never actually had to work a real job.

[Karreck]

That's not how unions work. They are democratic institutions and vote on what they want to push through. That 1 person wanting to get a vegan pay rise is going to have one hell of a job convincing 999 other people his wish is a high priority.

I am aware of that. It was a hyperbole in response to rrayy's claims that Unions should always fight for everything their members want, not matter how few members want it.

[Slant]

I am aware of that. It was a hyperbole in response to rrayy's claims that Unions should always fight for everything their members want, not matter how few members want it.

Yeah, I'm not sure at this point what you two have been squabbling about. Fact is, unions should always fight for what the member decide to have it fight for. Absolutely. Everytime the contract is up, there's gonna be a fight with the company for more money or whatever. That's just how it goes. It's a constant struggle. Now, not sure who came up with "all members", but whoever said that first is clueless. You two figure out who that was.

[tehdang]

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In Alabama, where the employer used daily propaganda and threatening actions to make sure it didn't succeed. Shocker.

Lost a vote, immediately blame someone other than the voters for the result. How about an alternative, like the workers voted freely in their own self-interest, and gave people like you the middle finger, and you just can’t accept that.

Democracy involves losing, fairly, sometimes. You best get around to showing you support it even if you don’t like the results. Because right now it appears you want to fuck the workers if they don’t vote the way you want—they’re obviously pawns of propaganda or something.

[postman1782]

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Lost a vote, immediately blame someone other than the voters for the result. How about an alternative, like the workers voted freely in their own self-interest, and gave people like you the middle finger, and you just can’t accept that.

Democracy involves losing, fairly, sometimes. You best get around to showing you support it even if you don’t like the results. Because right now it appears you want to fuck the workers if they don’t vote the way you want—they’re obviously pawns of propaganda or something.

They literally used bots and fucking propaganda in their workplaces to sway people. Much like Russians with Trump voters.

[postman1782]

Everyone uses those things or similar when they want to win elections. In the end the choice and responsibility lays with the voters themselves.

I mean, I could argue likewise that anyone who voted for Biden over Bernie has been brainwashed by corporate shills.

Show me an example of Democrats using foreign countries, bots and propaganda to win the election.

[Cracked]

Show me an example of Democrats using foreign countries, bots and propaganda to win the election.

Entire msm networks are Democrat propaganda lol. Just because you refuse to call a spade a spade doesn't make it a gardening tool.

[Blur4stuff]

Entire msm networks are Democrat propaganda lol. Just because you refuse to call a spade a spade doesn't make it a gardening tool.

examples? ten char

[postman1782]

Entire msm networks are Democrat propaganda lol. Just because you refuse to call a spade a spade doesn't make it a gardening tool.

LOL, so, because you have no examples, you just want to call them propaganda because they hurt your little feelers with the truth?

[Cracked]

LOL, so, because you have no examples, you just want to call them propaganda because they hurt your little feelers with the truth?

Neither do you, but carry on.

[postman1782]

Neither do you, but carry on.

What am I supposed to prove? Because I can prove ANYTHING I claim, because I am not a sheep and don't post about something I don't know about or claim something as fact, without evidence.

So, try me, what do you want me to prove?

[Cracked]

What am I supposed to prove? Because I can prove ANYTHING I claim, because I am not a sheep and don't post about something I don't know about or claim something as fact, without evidence.

So, try me, what do you want me to prove?

You made the claim

They literally used bots and fucking propaganda in their workplaces to sway people. Much like Russians with Trump voters.

Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.

[postman1782]

You made the claim



Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.

LOL, so you want me to use something like Newsmax, OANN, Fox News or some other shit right wing source that probably doesn't have all the evidence or story?

Nope, I will use real sources.

Here is a couple sources for Amazon using fake accounts to spread propaganda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56581266
https://www.geekwire.com/2021/amazon...-union-effort/

And here is Russians pushing literal fake news with bots in 2016:
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...-2016-election
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-had-disclosed

I can provide probably a dozen more articles, but you will probably just whine anyway because of the sources.

[SirBeef]

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Lost a vote, immediately blame someone other than the voters for the result. How about an alternative, like the workers voted freely in their own self-interest, and gave people like you the middle finger, and you just can’t accept that.

Democracy involves losing, fairly, sometimes. You best get around to showing you support it even if you don’t like the results. Because right now it appears you want to fuck the workers if they don’t vote the way you want—they’re obviously pawns of propaganda or something.

You must live in a basement and never stepped foot into the real world ever. Because in no way was what Amazon did was fair. If Amazon actually cared for their workers they would embrace and work with unions.

I was willing to accept my employees unionizing if they wanted to was was open about it when hiring my teams. But Amazon has done everything they can to encourage people from joining including firing people for trying to organize, requiring on site voting under the watch of management, using fake social media accounts to push anti union messaging, using in warehouse anti union propaganda, and using their daily employee new/info services as anti union propaganda.

[tehdang]

You must live in a basement and never stepped foot into the real world ever. Because in no way was what Amazon did was fair. If Amazon actually cared for their workers they would embrace and work with unions.

I was willing to accept my employees unionizing if they wanted to was was open about it when hiring my teams. But Amazon has done everything they can to encourage people from joining including firing people for trying to organize, requiring on site voting under the watch of management, using fake social media accounts to push anti union messaging, using in warehouse anti union propaganda, and using their daily employee new/info services as anti union propaganda.

Apparently, Amazon’s workers disagreed with you. And just as you’re free to encourage, with your voice, workers to unionize and use that structure, Amazon can (in your words) “encourage people from joining.”

And fuck if it ain’t paternalistic to lose a vote and essentially blame the workers for falling to propaganda. The only fair fight you’re in favor of is one where the outcome goes with you and the messaging starts and ends with your perspective.

I don’t even think you can cheer if they voted to unionize in good faith. Only one vote result would be deemed fair and you were ready to call them dupes of propaganda if they went the other way. That’s not an honest perspective on voting, “maybe we’ll convince them it’s in their own interest to vote my way next time,” that’s rejecting the principle of possibly losing a vote, period.

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They literally used bots and fucking propaganda in their workplaces to sway people. Much like Russians with Trump voters.

Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.

[Themius]

I expect my labor will be paid for at market rates...

Well that's a damn fucking lie.

So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?

[Endus]

You made the claim

Please prove both without using dubious MSM articles. I want specific examples, preferably with video and images.

Yeah, this is just you pre-emptively stating you'll freely ignore any evidence they produce by targeting the source.

It's no different than a Flat-Earther demanding you prove the Earth is round without using obviously-doctored-or-fake footage from space or any of the fake math made up by Rounders.

Just a conspiracy theory defending by insisting that all contradictory evidence is fake.

[downnola]

Whine all you want, but you’re saying the workers were so dumb as to be misled by bots and propaganda.

Amazon should have the balls to congratulate their workers for not falling to pro-union propaganda. And let me know if you find interviews with union workers saying they didn’t like the wages and health benefits, until they read a social media account run by a bot, and then were convinced they were great. Like all the other lost-an-election-time-to-whine instances, the impact is always asserted, not tested.

Hate to break it to you bud, but propaganda works. Targeting workers with anti-union propaganda has been a staple in the capitalist toolbox since the Industrial Revolution. When that doesn't work, they usually pressure workers in other ways like making an example out of the ones attempting to organize by firing them. None of this new and it's not like Amazon's tactics weren't used before. This isn't simply a case of a worker stumbling upon an anti-union twitter account and changing their mind that instant. Unions have been demonized for decades in America (Thanks CATO and Reason) and a lot of money and effort has gone into conditioning workers to not trust unions and each other.

This is ultimately why organizing and countering propaganda is so important. Union organizers should use Amazon's Alabama warehouse as an example of how powerful capital is in the post-USSR world and plan accordingly. This isn't the first time they'll fend off unionization in America and it sure as shit won't be the last.

[Glorious Leader]

Well that's a damn fucking lie.

So do you think being paid $20 when the average for a job is $18 when you produce $150/hr is "market rate" is a good exchange?

Its arbitrary anyway. The boundaries of the market are all defined and codified by the structure of the state they operate in. This distinction between natural and artifical is in itself artificial.