Would you play wow with cosmetic only gear?

[arkanon]

With the first couple of pages chock full of various discussions around character power and the acquisition of gear, I thought it presented an interesting question:

Would you still play wow if ALL gear was cosmetic only, and there were no ways to increase your characters power?

I find this question interesting on its own, but find it especially interesting when there has been so much discussion around the "best" gear only being available to the "best" players, with more than one person claiming the ONLY difference between a mythic raider and a WQ farmer is "some addons and reading a guide"

From a pvp perspective we have seen multiple people claim they only get crushed in BGs because the other players are 226 geared characters, meaning they dont stand a chance.

Assuming under this system, Mythic raids and high ranked pvp still rewarded the most elaborate and "impressive" sets, would this bother you? It doesnt grant them any power over anyone after all.

[Baine]

Well, if we could get character power elsewhere, I would not mind. A MMO must bring character power increase to have a sense of progression.

[arkanon]

Well, if we could get character power elsewhere, I would not mind. A MMO must bring character power increase to have a sense of progression.

Why does the progression need to be power related? Why can it not be story and cosmetics?

[Zig Zug]

Why does the progression need to be power related? Why can it not be story and cosmetics?

Because if the journey doesn't change the PC/Hero - what good is the journey?

They'd have to be really, really good cosmetics, and straining not to be cynical, I'm not sure if we can expect that from the current business model.

[Garretdejiko]

Why does the progression need to be power related? Why can it not be story and cosmetics?

Why can't it be both, you know, like before? Or, arguably, like now?

[ippollite]

I guess this is a two part question... would i play wow if the end game content had a load in outlay template? Yeah, i suppose. It might even help folks try their hand at it or play at a more casual level. No reason why it couldnt be put into a ranking system with leaderboards and tables alongside cosmetics. If it lowers one of the barriers of entry with a flat outlay regardless, then youre really allowing for fewer variables in designing the challenge. Youre also removing the gear crutch allowing players to oberpower it. Thus, its more 'skill based'.

Would i want that to be the only form of progression in game though, or the only feature in game that rewards players? Nah. Some people just dont like doing that kind of content, no reason why it couldnt exist alongside other systems (like crafting, housing, collecting, story farming... whatever players like doing).

[callipygoustp]

Are there any RPG games that have zero power increase during the development of a character? Personally, I can't think of one but I am, genuinely, curious to know if anyone knows of one.

[ceall]

How would you be handling stats then? Everyone running around qith exactly same hp and 10% haste/crit/mastery/versa forever?

That'd be super boring.

[nToxik]

Guild Wars 2 does just this (at least the last time I played). Everything is cosmetic in which many can be purchased from the store. Otherwise there are no power increases with gear.

[Argorwal]

Nope.

Growing in power to me is a key aspect of an RPG.

[arkanon]

Guild Wars 2 does just this (at least the last time I played). Everything is cosmetic in which many can be purchased from the store. Otherwise there are no power increases with gear.

I understand it changed a fair bit since launch, but yes, this was a big draw for many people - even playing field for everyone, you still earned gear, but it was cosmetic only.

- - - Updated - - -

Are there any RPG games that have zero power increase during the development of a character? Personally, I can't think of one but I am, genuinely, curious to know if anyone knows of one.

GW2 touched on this idea, and at one point in development the same was true for SWTOR, with everyone EASILY able to obtain "bis" and then the new content released was just recolours / cosmetics (I had long quit at this stage, and im not sure if it stayed that way). Many SMALLER games under the RPG umbrella absolutely operate this way, specifically from indie devs as it makes balancing the game substantially easier (obviously).

I just find it interesting that there has been outcry since day 1 from people saying its not fair mythic raiders (for example) get the best gear, the most powerful items, and sometimes the best looking gear, and many more have claimed they use gear as a "crutch" and are not really good players, they just get "carried" (by who, i am unsure, but thats the claim). Would this not solve that issue? You suddenly wouldnt need the gear to enter the content - its even footing for everyone, and the same could be said for pvp?

Would a purely skill based game not be more to the liking of the "casual" crowd?

[callipygoustp]

GW2 touched on this idea, and at one point in development the same was true for SWTOR, with everyone EASILY able to obtain "bis" and then the new content released was just recolours / cosmetics (I had long quit at this stage, and im not sure if it stayed that way). Many SMALLER games under the RPG umbrella absolutely operate this way, specifically from indie devs as it makes balancing the game substantially easier (obviously).

That didn't answer my question: "touched on" and "easy to obtain" are not examples of games whose character progression was without power upgrades.

Edit:
Someone in another post commented that GW2 did do this. I'll being checking it out, not playing, to see what it looks like.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Sounds awful. Count me out.

[callipygoustp]

Guild Wars 2 does just this (at least the last time I played). Everything is cosmetic in which many can be purchased from the store. Otherwise there are no power increases with gear.

Oh really? I'll have to check it out just out of curiosity.

[Bigcountry11782]

Why does the progression need to be power related? Why can it not be story and cosmetics?

Because this is how mmorpg's work. You progress through the story and earn gear that increases your power so you can go on to more difficult content. who wants to do the same amount of damage with a spell or ability or same healing with a spell the whole expac??? cosmetics just lead to more paid cosmetics. we already pay for game time and every expac. we don't need 600 pages in the shop with nothing but cosmetic. So no sorry terrible idea.

[Tziva]

I might play another hypothetical game where that was the design, but WoW to me is about character power progression, whether through levels or increasing gear.

Hunting cosmetics is a fun side task but it would never be enough to keep me engaged in the game longterm. Getting better stuff so you can fight bigger baddies is the entire appeal of the game for me.

[arkanon]

Because this is how mmorpg's work. You progress through the story and earn gear that increases your power so you can go on to more difficult content. who wants to do the same amount of damage with a spell or ability or same healing with a spell the whole expac??? cosmetics just lead to more paid cosmetics. we already pay for game time and every expac. we don't need 600 pages in the shop with nothing but cosmetic. So no sorry terrible idea.

Just to be clear - your "power level" increasing means absolutely nothing when moving into "harder" content, as the first thing they do to make the content "harder" is increase the mobs HP.....so your ability hits for 10 damage on a mob with 100 hp, then you step into tougher content and hits for 20............but the mob has 200hp.

And your comment about paid cosmetics is not related at all and makes no sense.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Equipment being part of the power progression is kinda the bread and butter of the genre. I don't see how another system could replace that without losing something along the way. I do already treat cosmetics as the only lasting progression/collection in-game, but even a watered down RPG like WoW would be weird if the badass 2h sword doesn't do anything for you when you get it.

[arkanon]

That didn't answer my question: "touched on" and "easy to obtain" are not examples of games whose character progression was without power upgrades.

Edit:
Someone in another post commented that GW2 did do this. I'll being checking it out, not playing, to see what it looks like.

Easy to obtain as in it was later in the games lifespan, so the equiv of getting MAYBE the covenant set. At the beginning, yes, it absolutely had power - then it all plateaued off for everyone, with everyone in the same gear, and all new gear released was cosmetic only. What I was attempting to clarify is that at launch, it was different, then for quite a while it operated like in OP.

Everyone does realise that our power relative to the content we complete barely increases at all though, right? Interesting that everyone didnt quit when they went from dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, then suddenly did 500dps.....Almost like none of it actually matters, and people are just stuck on the treadmill and are not even aware of it....food for thought.

- - - Updated - - -

I might play another hypothetical game where that was the design, but WoW to me is about character power progression, whether through levels or increasing gear.

Hunting cosmetics is a fun side task but it would never be enough to keep me engaged in the game longterm. Getting better stuff so you can fight bigger baddies is the entire appeal of the game for me.

Yeah to be clear, im certainly not suggesting wow SHOULD, WOULD, or even COULD do this, but rather just getting peoples thoughts on it - i think its very interesting to see peoples opinions when this scneario is presented, then comparing it to their opinion on player skill, high end content, and gear Vs content.

[Nzx]

Guild Wars 2 does just this (at least the last time I played). Everything is cosmetic in which many can be purchased from the store. Otherwise there are no power increases with gear.

This was the exact reason I stopped bothering to play GW2 (well, that and the weird weeby vibe that every other MMO other than WoW seems to revel in).

If there is no power progression, I don't see the point in playing an MMO over a normal RPG that almost invariably will have a better story, better writing, better gameplay, and less systems designed entirely to make you run on the hamster wheel while also telling you you're only allowed to run on the hamster wheel for ~1hr a day. If you're after the "competitive" aspect, you'd play any number of other games in other genres that have actual competition. I literally just cannot see the point in an MMO game that doesn't have power progression via gear or a system very reminiscent of gear. Or are we at the point where people just want a chat room with a GUI laid on top a la Second Life again?