In-game Raider.io score

[T-34]

And it's like a double problem specifically because it's NOT A JOB but a game.

So you are saying that my time when I play a game isn't valuable for me?
That I should accept to play with crap people just because it is a game?

The time I have to play WoW is limited by the time I have to spend on my job, family etc. etc.
I want to maximize my enjoyment of that limited time.
I don't find it fun at all to play with players that don't do their best, with players that feel entitled to be carried by me, by players that think "lul, it is just a game, why so mad bro?".
Therefore I do my best to filter out people like them. Therefore my in-game enjoyment is great.

If you find it fun in-game to carry those that don't care about their own time and don't respect the time of other players then I am happy for you. I just don't want to play with them.

The funny thing is that those that care have no problem finding other people to play with and finding enjoyment in the game, but it seems from this thread and countless other like this that those that don't care have big problems finding other people to play with.
Maybe those that complain about raider.io, gatekeeping, elitism etc. should spend less time complaining and either accept the level they play on or try to better themselves.

[kaminaris]

So you are saying that my time when I play a game isn't valuable for me?
That I should accept to play with crap people just because it is a game?

Your whole point falls apart when you cannot see an obvious solution - make network of friends (or join community, or both) if you want to push higher stuff.
Once you play with someone you have ACTUAL experience with them gives you proper evaluation, number does not.

Whenever someone is a dick or has terrible internet connection or stands in shit way too much cannot be evaluated by number.

RiO became questionable "solution" to a problem that blizzard created in first place. Artificial upscaling of dungeon difficulty that literally gates gear from it. With M+ current implementation it just became a rat race for irrelevant number.

Anything below 16 should be just relatively easy. For anything above, make use of communities, find people who want to push, talk with them, check logs etc, just like guilds.


Just listen to yourself: "If you find it fun in-game to carry". This is ridiculous. Does WoW became LoL that you suddenly carry people (only in your head) because you think they are worse than you? Because that is happening right now with rio. Dude with same score as you made mistake? = noob bought boost.

[Gaidax]

All Blizzard has to do to make R.io disappear and to prevent competition with their own system is to not allow 3rd parties to rip M+ data from the armory.

Blizzard and heck, industry as a whole, offers these gateways, APIs and exposes features because it allows to make their products better and more used at much less effort.

Blizz does not need to make rio or anything "disappear" by bunkering up, quite the contrary - they nourish these community tools and resources, then they absorb parts of it that stood the test of time and are accepted for the fraction of cost and effort it would take otherwise.

One of the greatest things with WoW as MMO, is how moddable it is, how exposed its stuff is to creators - it is a big part of success story of WoW.

[PrimiOne]

Blizzard and heck, industry as a whole, offers these gateways, APIs and exposes features because it allows to make their products better and more used at much less effort.

Blizz does not need to make rio or anything "disappear" by bunkering up, quite the contrary - they nourish these community tools and resources, then they absorb parts of it that stood the test of time and are accepted for the fraction of cost and effort it would take otherwise.

One of the greatest things with WoW as MMO, is how moddable it is, how exposed its stuff is to creators - it is a big part of success story of WoW.

Well,, we still don't know the exact implementation but IF (conditional) it offers every feature RIO does....Rio will just vanish into nothing like gearscore vanished with ilvl and like oqueue shrinked into nothing after LFG.

[T-34]

Your whole point falls apart when you cannot see an obvious solution - make network of friends (or join community, or both) if you want to push higher stuff.
Once you play with someone you have ACTUAL experience with them gives you proper evaluation, number does not.

Just listen to yourself: "If you find it fun in-game to carry". This is ridiculous. Does WoW became LoL that you suddenly carry people (only in your head) because you think they are worse than you? Because that is happening right now with rio. Dude with same score as you made mistake? = noob bought boost.

I do play with friends and like-minded people in a regular setting and these people I know what can do and what they can't do.
We are talking here about pugging = playing with people you don't know and whom you will probably never play with again.

Raider.io is the best tool I have to maximize the likelihood that someone I pug with is competent.
I find it FUN to play with competent people. I don't find if FUN to carry people. I have to CARRY people if they aren't competent.

You are most welcome to invite people to your groups based on whatever criteria you want - it is your key after all.
I invite people to my groups based on my criteria. Don't like it? Don't join my key.

You seem to find M+ to be a bad system, I find it to be the best thing ever added to WoW: It gives me the best opportunity to play a game I find fun in small-scale competitive setting. It is very obvious in a M+ who is an experienced and/or good player and who is a bad/non-experienced player. I guess that is the main reason why so many here don't like it

People should either accept their limitations on what they can do or try to get better. I accept that I will never be among the high M+-pusher or top-100 guild raider. That is my limit and if I can't achieve stuff in-game then it is 100% my fault and my problem.
I don't care if you or anybody else don't like my criteria for whom I play with. You have the option to invite people based on your own criteria. So all of this is 100% a non-existing problem.

[Gaidax]

Well,, we still don't know the exact implementation but IF (conditional) it offers every feature RIO does....Rio will just vanish into nothing like gearscore vanished with ilvl and like oqueue shrinked into nothing after LFG.

Pretty much and for that Blizz certainly does not need to shutter off APIs, they just absorb the feature others effectively developed for them for free.

[ceall]

Can you elaborate on that? How does rio encourage toxicity?

As i said, no consequences for being toxic, either verbally or by simply leaving the group for whatever reason. The only thing that matters in rio is the number displayed.

If the ingame version would have some indication like "this player has left X number of dungeons of other group members this season" these toxic players would have a harder time getting into groups because noone wants to get their keys (and by that their time invested into it) wasted.

[ellieg]

Sorry but this is total bullshit. I have done M+ with people who had no rio which performed better than people WITH rio in the group.

What level m+? Cause once you start getting to the 15+ range, I can guarantee that you're gonna have a blast time if u try to run it with 4 ppl with no rio. Which is where the tool really shows its value

[keelr]

Reading some of the comments here...oh god. Only those people have problem with rio score in general who wants to do better content that they can based on their experience.

[ellieg]

As i said, no consequences for being toxic, either verbally or by simply leaving the group for whatever reason. The only thing that matters in rio is the number displayed.

If the ingame version would have some indication like "this player has left X number of dungeons of other group members this season" these toxic players would have a harder time getting into groups because noone wants to get their keys (and by that their time invested into it) wasted.

A majority of ppl leave because the group is bad. Its very rare that someone leaves a smooth run thats gonna be timed. Vet your group mates better (rio is one of the metrics that helps with this) , improve your own skills, communicate with them so you arent just a random npc to them, and you will have way less leavers.

[Gaidax]

As i said, no consequences for being toxic, either verbally or by simply leaving the group for whatever reason. The only thing that matters in rio is the number displayed.

If the ingame version would have some indication like "this player has left X number of dungeons of other group members this season" these toxic players would have a harder time getting into groups because noone wants to get their keys (and by that their time invested into it) wasted.

That does not mean RIO encourages toxicity, it's simply limited in what it does.

OpenRaid used to have an option for people to comment on player, but it was often abused, because people could just write total bullshit and nobody could verify that being true or not.

RIO is adopted ingame because community adopted this feature. Overall it's a good and useful tool, even if not perfect.

[kaminaris]

I do play with friends and like-minded people in a regular setting and these people I know what can do and what they can't do.
We are talking here about pugging = playing with people you don't know and whom you will probably never play with again.

Raider.io is the best tool I have to maximize the likelihood that someone I pug with is competent.
I find it FUN to play with competent people. I don't find if FUN to carry people. I have to CARRY people if they aren't competent.

What happens if you are getting carried? And it turns out other people are more competent than you? Do you silently cry or leave mid run telling them "sorry guys you are better than me, I accept my limitation bye bye."

People here need to get off high horse and realize they are not top dogs as someone will be always better than then. Like in guilds you always have better and worse players. Rankings, especially like rio doesn't tell shit aside from how many dungeons (or boosts) they did. All they do is to create artificial barriers.

This is why people hated rio, because it destroys social aspects and introduces rat race.

[Toybox]

I mean, PvP rating already exists. And nobody is complaining that the 2,300 rated PvPers don't invite 1,400 people to their groups.

Such a good point. If I tried to get into an arena pug far beyond my station, I'd not only be laughed at for my lack of experience, but possibly disregarded for playing the wrong spec(s)/class for their comp.

The solution? As always, play with friends. Pushed 1.8-2k this season in multiple brackets just having a laugh & playing with guildies. No drama, no nonsense, just fun.

No-one owes you an invite, so it's best to just find people that want to play with you & vice versa.

This is why people hated rio, because it destroys social aspects and introduces rat race.

The social aspect outside of guilds/community+Discord servers is nonsense anyway. I've seen posts suggesting "instead of taking experienced Y over inexperienced Z, why not teach Z how to play the dungeon instead?" which would be fine if Z was a guildy/friend, but Z is likely someone from some server you've never heard of & will likely just insta-leave at the end of the dungeon anyway

[ellieg]

What happens if you are getting carried? And it turns out other people are more competent than you? Do you silently cry or leave mid run telling them "sorry guys you are better than me, I accept my limitation bye bye."

People here need to get off high horse and realize they are not top dogs as someone will be always better than then. Like in guilds you always have better and worse players. Rankings, especially like rio doesn't tell shit aside from how many dungeons (or boosts) they did. All they do is to create artificial barriers.

This is why people hated rio, because it destroys social aspects and introduces rat race.

I dont queue up for +22 because I know I'd be getting carried. I queue up for 15/16s because I've consistently done 11, 12, 13, 14s and worked my way up thru them proving I dont need carried. And if I'm in a 15, a run that I've proven capable of doing dozens of times, and the other players are 2k rio 227 ilvl players, I simply enjoy the smoothness of it all

[Kaver]

So you admit that even in a good guild you will have to PUG sometimes. Exactly what kaminaris said... having to PUG even if you are in a good guild.

Not at all. I never pug. If none of my guild mates are able to play (which is very rare) then I just postpone M+ to later and do something else instead like the Maw etc.

All the toxic experiences that people share on this forum are all based around pugs.

- - - Updated - - -

This is why people hated rio, because it destroys social aspects

Pugging destroy social aspects. People play WoW like it's single player game and treat each other like NPCs. And when someone fail they go apeshit because they don't see the human sitting behind the other player.

Being on discord with guild mates doing M+ is social. And when someone fails they say "oh shit I missed the interrupt". The group then say "np, we know why we failed and we'll do better next time".

[ellieg]

People against raider io are the people that dont run mythic dungeons, but think they have the right to do so and shouldnt be selected based on a rating.

I was also against such addons some years ago.

I was an hardcore raider and pvper back in vanilla/tbc/wotlk, getting several arena mounts and server first kills.
I stoped playing the game and went completly casual every expansion after wotlk.
After coming back in legion, did mage tower and nothing much besides that.

When I decided to try m+ in BFA and getting zero invites it really annoyed me because I had to use an addon to rate my skill, skill that I believe I have and had at the time.

This expansion its my first time doing m+, installed the addon and got KSM by pugging all the way as a fury warrior.

I can now understand why people use it and makes total sense.

Sorry for the wall of redundant text.

I'm the same way. Did a lot of m+ when ot was released in Legion. Had a lot of fun, took a break midway thru. Came back and ppl started using rio. Didn't understand it and thought it was bullshit cause I'm a good player. Then realized that a dude 700 miles away from me behind his keyboard has no idea whether I'm good or not and it was up to me to prove I was qualified. Now I use it and I think its great. Even in +15 keys I run weekly for vault, I still get 700 rio players who have a +10 as their top trying to join my key. In the past I'd see ~215 ilvl and just invite them. Now I invite the 212 1300 rio guy over them because they've earned it

[Kaver]

skill that I believe I have and had at the time.

This is the problem with pugging. There is no way to know the skill level of a completely random player. So either you use something like RIO or you just blindly gamble and hope for the best.

[potis]

What happens if you are getting carried? And it turns out other people are more competent than you? Do you silently cry or leave mid run telling them "sorry guys you are better than me, I accept my limitation bye bye."

People here need to get off high horse and realize they are not top dogs as someone will be always better than then. Like in guilds you always have better and worse players. Rankings, especially like rio doesn't tell shit aside from how many dungeons (or boosts) they did. All they do is to create artificial barriers.

This is why people hated rio, because it destroys social aspects and introduces rat race.

Dear god how many years has it been you type the same things, we get it, you dont like R.io causes it exposes your inability to climb the artificial number, it was here, it is here, and its getting improved.

Deal with it or unsub already.

R.io works 99.9% correctly for anyone that knows how to use it, when i need 1 pug every 30th M+, i can take a decent player that fits my needs over a risky candidate, and its the reason it was created, to provide some information.

When i type "+15 weekly on shitty alts" and "There will be wipes cause we are undergeared a bit, hence weekly, dont leave", and i get a 1200 rio dude with +14 on the dungeon, and a 1300 rio dude with a +16 dungeon, who am i getting? The guy thats coming for the points and might leave since its not timed? Or the guy that already has a +16 and is actually coming for the weekly chest cause he slacked?

Just because the bad players use it against other bad players and you guys create a shitstorm that simply keeps you all at the same levels forever, it aint a problem really, get better and climb out of it, otherwise stop complaining.

[Kaver]

Then realized that a dude 700 miles away from me behind his keyboard has no idea whether I'm good or not

It's a wonder how some people still don't realize this.

"I know I have the skill" - well that's fine, but how do everyone else know?

[ellieg]

It's a wonder how some people still don't realize this.

"I know I have the skill" - well that's fine, but how do everyone else know?

Source: dude just trust me

Lol