1. #17361
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    It is innocent until proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent. Right now it looks like there is a very solid case the overdose and overall illness is what did him in.
    There is actually NO CASE for a fucking overdose, you would know this if you had been watching the fucking trial at all.

  2. #17362
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    There is actually NO CASE for a fucking overdose, you would know this if you had been watching the fucking trial at all.
    There seems to be a rather large one given the toxicology report and the convince store video. I don't really want to jump in as at this point it feels like people want to fight about it. It looks rather clear that reasonable doubt exists here.

  3. #17363
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    There seems to be a rather large one given the toxicology report and the convince store video. I don't really want to jump in as at this point it feels like people want to fight about it. It looks rather clear that reasonable doubt exists here.
    I mean, if you literally only listened to the defense's witness, sure. But he was hardly the only witness to speak on the autopsy results, and was the only one that came to that conclusion.

  4. #17364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    So the defense can claim anything they want "could" have happened, and the prosecution isn't allowed to say "but it didn't". How is the prosecution supposed to account for the defense making shit up before it's happened?
    The U.S. court system is set up in favor of the defendant - the "innocent until proven guilty" motif is spread throughout the entire process. And in most cases we want it to be just like this - and in our history it has been absent so many times (think black suspect being coerced to "confess" to a crime).

    So when the defense is putting forth their arguments, they can present alternative theories, to pierce that "reasonable doubt" threshold prosecutors must meet. If there are alternate theories that the defense can back up with some kind of legitimate evidence, then they can introduce them in the trial. The prosecution needs to be ready to defeat those claims, and in almost all cases knows ahead of time what people will be testifying (so the prosecution can opposition prep, ect).

    That statement from the judge about late evidence and a possible mistrial is interesting - I need to look at it some more.

  5. #17365
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    There seems to be a rather large one given the toxicology report and the convince store video. I don't really want to jump in as at this point it feels like people want to fight about it. It looks rather clear that reasonable doubt exists here.
    Wrong. I will go with the expert, over a ban evading alt account trying to defend the murderer.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56670912

  6. #17366
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean, if you literally only listened to the defense's witness, sure. But he was hardly the only witness to speak on the autopsy results, and was the only one that came to that conclusion.
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.

  7. #17367
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The U.S. court system is set up in favor of the defendant - the "innocent until proven guilty" motif is spread throughout the entire process. And in most cases we want it to be just like this - and in our history it has been absent so many times (think black suspect being coerced to "confess" to a crime).

    So when the defense is putting forth their arguments, they can present alternative theories, to pierce that "reasonable doubt" threshold prosecutors must meet. If there are alternate theories that the defense can back up with some kind of legitimate evidence, then they can introduce them in the trial. The prosecution needs to be ready to defeat those claims, and in almost all cases knows ahead of time what people will be testifying (so the prosecution can opposition prep, ect).

    That statement from the judge about late evidence and a possible mistrial is interesting - I need to look at it some more.
    Declaring it a mistrial would be interesting on top of if the prosecution didn't include the entire blood tox reports as their evidence. If they did, CO2 levels should be in it already.

  8. #17368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...raint-77084151



    That's a good thing. You don't introduce new evidence in the middle of a court proceeding, all evidence has to be introduced before proceedings in my understanding. It protects scumbags and innocent people all the same, as innocence is presumed.

    The court isn't there to make you feel good, even when it's working as intended as it is in this instance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is what confuses me. I'd imagine all this autopsy information is entered as evidence, including blood oxygen/carbon monoxide levels, so this shouldn't be "new". The only thing I can imagine is somehow this specific data wasn't entered with everything else and the judge is simply saying you can't introduce super late evidence, since usually evidence is introduced early so each team has time to prepare around it and it can be presented to the jury or whatever.

    I know they don't allow, "Your Honor, we have SURPRISE EVIDENCE!" at the last minute, and this appears to be an extension of that.
    I'm not seeing that quote you list above from the link.

  9. #17369
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.
    There was literally NO AUTOPSY that says he died of a fucking overdose. Both of them have stated he died of asphyxiation. None said he died of Covid either,

  10. #17370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.
    Can you link the separate autopsies that conclude your observations above? Is there on in evidence that claims he died of an overdose? Or COVID?

  11. #17371
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?
    Nobody said he died of covid, only that he tested positive for it. That's a pretty big tell about where you're coming from with this.

  12. #17372
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Declaring it a mistrial would be interesting on top of if the prosecution didn't include the entire blood tox reports as their evidence. If they did, CO2 levels should be in it already.
    How did they not include the entire blood toxicity report? Where are you seeing that?

  13. #17373
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Can you link the separate autopsies that conclude your observations above? Is there on in evidence that claims he died of an overdose? Or COVID?
    I don't honestly know if I can. I admit I don't want to scan through hours of trial to find it brought up and would you accept any link that wasn't an official newspaper publication?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a5_story.html

    Touches on it but they won't actually go into details about waving it away as something they always try to do.. I can maybe find a screen cap?

    This one is a bit better

    https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/hea...-cause-medical

  14. #17374
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I'm not seeing that quote you list above from the link.
    Weird, not sure what's up. This should work, note that I snipped out a paragraph between those two quotes - https://abc11.com/derek-chauvin-wont...eath/10516594/

  15. #17375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Nobody said he died of covid, only that he tested positive for it. That's a pretty big tell about where you're coming from with this.
    /snort - died from COVID in 9.5 minutes.... Racists seem to only embrace science when it allows their ilk to go free.

  16. #17376
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    How did they not include the entire blood toxicity report? Where are you seeing that?
    Not saying that they did, just "if" they didn't. I haven't been watching closely enough to see if they only submitted specific parts of the report as evidence or if submitted the whole thing and just referenced parts.

  17. #17377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I don't honestly know if I can. I admit I don't want to scan through hours of trial to find it brought up and would you accept any link that wasn't an official newspaper publication?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a5_story.html

    Touches on it but they won't actually go into details about waving it away as something they always try to do.. I can maybe find a screen cap?

    This one is a bit better

    https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/hea...-cause-medical
    Thanks...from your source:
    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker ruled Floyd's death last May a homicide and identified the cause as "cardiopulmonary arrest" that occurred during "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" -- all findings he stood by in court on Friday.

    Asked about the autopsy and Floyd's death certificate, Baker described the "top line of the cause of death" as "what you think is the most important thing that precipitated the death."

    "Other things that you think played a role in the death but were not direct causes get relegated to what's known as the 'other significant conditions' part of the death certificate," he said. "For example, you know, Mr. Floyd's use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint. His heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint."

  18. #17378
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks...from your source:

    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    Just to back up this point: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...psy-6-3-20.pdf

    Literally the autopsy report.

    Cause of death is literally the case title: "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
    SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"

  19. #17379
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks...from your source:

    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    I won't post anymore here apparently my avatar/signature is a violation and this is baiting comments? Will leave you to your section.

  20. #17380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Weird, not sure what's up. This should work, note that I snipped out a paragraph between those two quotes - https://abc11.com/derek-chauvin-wont...eath/10516594/
    Thanks - yeah, that was odd. I'm seeing the quotes now. Those statements are interesting...and frankly I'm still not following the entire issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I won't post anymore here apparently my avatar/signature is a violation and this is baiting comments? Will leave you to your section.
    It's noted that your own source proved your position to be objectively false. Your lack of redress or any other comment to your internal revelation just backs up previous conclusions on your posts and character.

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