In-game Raider.io score

[ellieg]

Thanks. I'll take notes on that. Just hope that'll be something easier to see in this new feature from within the game.


I've experienced it a lot lately in 10-15's. And it is rather tiresome to lose a key due to some prat demanding the time to be faster than just be completed.

Gotcha. That sucks. Best of luck on that. I'll be honest, only been running 1 a week on main, and 1 a week on my 2 alts. At the 14/15, 12, and 10 lvl. They get worse as it goes down lol.

[T-34]

Funny how you think you know which side of the river I stand on. Just to help you then: I play RBG/arena at over 2400. I scrutinize every single player that applies for my group down to if I like how their voice sounds on discord.

The BIG difference between me and the average joe that uses r.io to nitpick players for his +5 is that me and my team play beyond what the vast majority considers "end game" and most players use r.io for petty content just to feel special by rejecting someone's alt.

R.io and any other form of scrutinizing others is only useful for mythic raid, past 2k RBG/arena, past +15 dungeon. Everything lower than that is just mediocre players trying to find less mediocre players to carry them around.

Thats the truth like it or not.

Hmmm, so you are telling me that if I grab ArthasDKlol, LegolazzXXX and SylvanasQTP from chat then I can beat HC Denarius or a +13 in my first attempt with them?
Or are you expecting me to carry and/or teach them?

My personal experience tells me that any content above very low mythic keys or lfr requires you to filter out people in order to have a nice non-toxic experience, so I will keep filtering out people that I don't want to play with.
I played my way up myself both in keys and in raids and I won't waste my time teaching or carrying strangers.

I should add that if you find it fun to carry or teach players that have a considerable lower skill/experience than yourself then I am happy for you and wish you the best of luck with your endavours, I just don't find it fun at all to carry/teach strangers.

[chiddie]

But with only 0.001% of the playerbase reaching them.

As long as max rewards comes at X level. Everyone X and above will drop back down to X to complete the content to get the reward because it's easier than doing it X+5 for example. I think players who have proven themselves thru rio of being capable of doing X+5 should have an easier time getting into X level groups.

Other players are not hurt in anyway when the X+5 players choose to group together and knock out X keys. Every X or X-1 / X-2 players can run their key and invite any level of player. The only issue is having to spend 5 extra minutes forming a group instead of joining one and having someone else deal with it

I see the point but this would lead to even further whines about content being too difficult IN PUG.

But whatever solution has its drawbacks, pleasing everyone is impossible.

[Relapses]

I see the point but this would lead to even further whines about content being too difficult IN PUG.

But whatever solution has its drawbacks, pleasing everyone is impossible.

The solution that has the fewest drawbacks is the solution currently in place: Blizzard doesn't police keys because it's a social issue that can be handled by its playerbase.

[MiiiMiii]

They either had to embrace it or remove it. They clearly went with embracing it, so be it. I would prefer they shut down the APIs that made the whole website possible to begin with.

[chiddie]

They either had to embrace it or remove it. They clearly went with embracing it, so be it. I would prefer they shut down the APIs that made the whole website possible to begin with.

They took even too much to embrace it. Banning the mod would cause even more issues, integrating it in game is maybe not the best solutions but it’s a viable solution indeed.

[Relapses]

They took even too much to embrace it. Banning the mod would cause even more issues, integrating it in game is maybe not the best solutions but it’s a viable solution indeed.

All of the information R.IO uses is already on Blizzard's own Armory. Banning the mod would result in people using your Armory page to make the same exact determinations they do with R.IO. The only way that you could get around that would be by taking that information off of the Armory. And even then, you'd just see people start to log M+ on WCL which would in players actively inviting and declining based off of performance metrics in ways that they don't do now. The problem was never R.IO. It's this stupid community and it's perverse sense of entitlement.

[Specialka]

It’s related to rio in the measure that without rio you would only see (at a glance at least) that my “competitor” has a few ilvl than me and nothing more. You would probably pick him against me anyways but I would have more chances, 3/4 ilvls are not that huge difference.

But I am stretching things too much, I’m not against rio at all, I use it too and I find it as useful as you do.

I know that my “issue” is caused more by the M+ rewards structure than by rio itself.

Looking forward to see Blizzard’s implementation, I’m genuinely curious.

Peace.

- - - Updated - - -


This would only move the “supposedly issue” to an higher level.

People wanna reach near KSM level for the gear rewards, mainly.

If you move best rewards to +25 you’ll have the same whines shifted by 10 levels.

The more higher ilvl you go the more 3/4 ilvl more matter, btw.

[chiddie]

The more higher ilvl you go the more 3/4 ilvl more matter, btw.

Above 15 probably yes, 14-15 I sincerely doubt that it does much difference. If you don’t time a 14-15 with an average of about ilvl 218 group its surely not because of 3-4 ilvls more you could have.

[Kokolums]

No one but bads "Hate" I.O we good players love it.

RIO is antisocial bullshit. It is toxic as hell. If you like RIO, you suck at wow. Period.

[Relapses]

RIO is antisocial bullshit. It is toxic as hell. If you like RIO, you suck at wow. Period.

Screening players for groups is toxic? What the fuck would you prefer? A fucking resume? A romantic dinner and a movie?

[Azerate]

RIO is antisocial bullshit. It is toxic as hell. If you like RIO, you suck at wow. Period.

Liking or disliking doesn't have much to do with it. If you want to find people for your m+ group through LFG it's pretty much an obligatory tool to have. Unless you are running with a fixed group of guildies/friends that you know are capable, you need something other than just someone's ilvl to decide whether they fit the content you want them for.

[Kanadei]

Yeah, that is a bullshit statement. Some can have a high rating and suck, some can have a low rating and be better than the ones with a high rating.

This can happen, but is rarer than the inverse. This is because R.io is a tool, you use the information alongside other information to infer a result - it's not a guarantee.

I've seen people with no driver's license drive better than those who have one, but I know which car I'd rather be in.

[T-34]

People playing in a more social way should get better rewards than people playing in an antisocial way. I would NEVER reward skill over being social. Ever. The reason is that this is a game for entertainment, not a cruel prison for the most efficient players to whip the rest. And with everyone helping each other and being social, the overall skill level of the playerbase will rise far higher than the current gogogo rio model, anyway, so you should WANT that.

Nobody stops you from grouping up in a "social" way if you find that fun, just as I find it fun to play with people that care and do their best. I would ALWAYS pick a competent player over ArthasDKlol.

I don't care about the overall skill level of the player-base, I care about the skill level of those I play with. WoW is not hard and anyone who has the will and a minimum of skill can get acceptable at the game. I find it fun to play with people that make an effort, care about their performance, do their best and respect their own and my time. A huge part of the player-base, especially the "social" players, don't care about that.

I should add that Blizzard doesn't say anywhere how you should play the game and says nothing at all about on what criteria you should make your groups.

Added later:
If someone wants to play in a particular way then I fully support that. People should find like-minded people to play with and ignore everyone else.

[Tziva]

Is there a method to look that up?

You look at how many keys they have done and whether they climbed there or just suddenly had eight 15s completed. If they've done a bunch, they're almost certainly not a boost. Way more useful than the raw score.

Doesn't matter anymore. When you experience people leaving a group with time to complete the key with the excuse of 'it isn't going fast enough', then it becomes a needed thing.

As discussed in the leaver threads, there is no effective way to automate tracking or handling leavers without it unfairly flagging innocent people. Do you want to be penalised for leaving a key because the tank went offline or the dps who was mad at the slow pace decided to just troll the group?

Yeah, that is a bullshit statement. Some can have a high rating and suck, some can have a low rating and be better than the ones with a high rating.

So fucking what? If you have no other data, it would be foolish to go with the person without experience over the person who has experience under the logic that sometimes people without experience are better than those with it.

I feel like a bunch of people are arguing with invisible people they think are claiming that a raider.io score is definitive proof that someone is an excellent player. It's like the people running around screaming that "ilvl doesn't equal skill" like anyone would actually genuinely argue it did. No one is claiming that is the case, so these hypothetical scenarios are pointless. The system is meant to show experience, period. If you have to gamble on a stranger you know nothing about, it is useful to at least know they have done this particular content before.

The entire point of the system is to try to make playing with strangers a less painful process by giving us a reasonable and easy way to tell who looks appropriate for the content we're about to try.

If you’re in a good guild then you should have plenty of people to play with most of the time. Pugs are the root of all evil in WoW.

This simply isn't true, especially if people play multiple types of content since guilds are often focused on one particular area. Unless you're in an absolutely massive guild (which has its own downsides), it's unlikely you're going to be able to find a full guild group for all types content you want to do at the same times you want to do it.

One might be in a great raiding or pvp guild or a social guild they love, but that doesn't mean there are going to be a lot of people interested in m+ also, much less people who are available at the same times as you, and in an appropriate tank:healer:dps ratio that makes doing runs possible.

After playing this game for 16 years, I have a ton of friends in this game. I have a great guild full of people I have raided with for over a decade. But a good chunk of those people don't enjoy m+ or don't have time for it, or only care about getting their one vault key done a week. The remaining people are mostly dps, meaning that at minimum a tank and healer may need to be PuGed.

For someone like me who really enjoys keys and wants to run lots of them, there is siumply no other option but PuGing. I'm not antisocial, I'm not avoiding guilds, I'm not treating strangers like throwaway NPCs. I just want to play. Sometimes I might have a friend or two with me in those keys but almost always at least some of the group is a PuG. No one who has to PuG would argue it is superior to playing with friends, but it is superior to not being able to play that content at all.

If that experience can be even slightly improved by showing me people who are playing at a similar level so I can slightly increase my odds of getting a successful group are a positive to my experience, and just about any other person who PuGs seriously would agree.

Pugging destroy social aspects. People play WoW like it's single player game and treat each other like NPCs. And when someone fail they go apeshit because they don't see the human sitting behind the other player.

The argument that PuGing is antisocial is laughable, especially considering the alternative usually isn't playing in a nonPuG -- most of us wouldn't choose to pug unless we had to -- it's just dropping group content entirely. I've met many people in keystones that are still on my friends' list, that I still talk to (one of which now raids with me in fact). I'm in m+ discords, in-game community groups, and I interact with people regularly in keystone related contexts. It's just as social as any other content in the game, and just as likely to introduce you to new people and allow you to make new friends.

Unless you started playing this game with a full group of real life friends, chances are pretty high that literally all of your in-game friends started out as strangers you grouped with once for the first time and then stuck around.

Frankly, as someone who outright stated they never PuG, I don't think you're really in any position to make these claims to begin with. It's fine if you hate PuGing; I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for that as opinion because it absolutely can be a miserable experience. But don't speak on a level where you think the rest of us are better off without it when you're clearly unaware of the dynamics at play here and what the gaming experience is like for those of us that do.

[chiddie]

Liking or disliking doesn't have much to do with it. If you want to find people for your m+ group through LFG it's pretty much an obligatory tool to have. Unless you are running with a fixed group of guildies/friends that you know are capable, you need something other than just someone's ilvl to decide whether they fit the content you want them for.

Agreed.

Just failed a DoS 14 (disband at second boss) due to two of the 3 dps with around 1200 rio doing a whooping 3.2k (hunter) and 3.5k (boomkin) average dps.

Wonder how these people got to 1200.

[Kaver]

The argument that PuGing is antisocial is laughable, especially considering the alternative usually isn't playing in a nonPuG -- most of us wouldn't choose to pug unless we had to -- it's just dropping group content entirely. I've met many people in keystones that are still on my friends' list, that I still talk to (one of which now raids with me in fact). I'm in m+ discords, in-game community groups, and I interact with people regularly in keystone related contexts. It's just as social as any other content in the game, and just as likely to introduce you to new people and allow you to make new friends.

I agree, what you describe here IS very social. The problem is that it is not applicable for the majority of pugging players. There are A LOT of players who are treating wow like a single player game and other players like NPCs. These players do not join M+ discords or communities. You might call what you're doing for pugging but there's a HUGE difference between you being in M+ communities and the average Joe using LFG to find players. Pugging in general (not discords or communities) absolutely removes social aspects of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

This simply isn't true

It absolutely IS true. I'm a part of a mythic raiding guild that does M+ all the time when we're not raiding. And we got a lot of social members in the guild who don't raid but they joins in on the M+ runs. And the best thing is that we don't mind boosting less experience members because in a good guild people care about each others. We want them to improve and get better. Good guilds are about investing in other people. So for a casual players it is extremely beneficial to join a Mythic raiding guild as a social. They can be brought a long for quick heroic clears to get curve and they can join M+ runs... without paying anything.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

RIO is antisocial bullshit. It is toxic as hell. If you like RIO, you suck at wow. Period.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ackrock/Flyduk

sure my man i "Suck"

[Tziva]

I agree, what you describe here IS very social. The problem is that it is not applicable for the majority of pugging players. There are A LOT of players who are treating wow like a single player game and other players like NPCs. These players do not join M+ discords or communities. You might call what you're doing for pugging but there's a HUGE difference between you being in M+ communities and the average Joe using LFG to find players. Pugging in general (not discords or communities) absolutely removes social aspects of the game.

Sorry, I don't think you're in any place to speak for the PuG community or talk about what they experience or how social they are, as someone who doesn't PuG and has zero experience in that area. In my experience, this simply isn't true, and it definitely isn't inherently true because many of us have a very different experience.

(fwiw, I use LFG to find those players)

It absolutely IS true. I'm a part of a mythic raiding guild that does M+ all the time when we're not raiding. And we got a lot of social members in the guild who doesn't raid but who joins in on the M+ runs. And the best thing is that we don't mind boosting less experience people because since they are guildmates we care about them and want them to get better. So for a casual players it is extremely beneficial to join a Mythic raiding guild as a social. They can be brought a long for quick heroic clears to get curve and they can join M+ runs... without paying anything.

That some groups do both raiding and mythic plus is not support for the blanket statement that "if you're in a good guild you won't need to PuG." I'm sure there are plenty of raiding guilds that also do mythic plus. There are probably pvp guilds that also raid. But that still doesn't make the statement accurate as a general rule.

One might be in a great guild and still find themselves in a position where they want to do content that is outside the guild's focus and not have enough other people interested. One might be in a great guild but find that their free time to do outside activities doesn't match up with other people. One might be in a great guild and find out that while other people want to do that content, they don't want to do it as seriously or frequently as them. One might be in a great guild that has a lot of people who want to do that content, have the same schedule, and would love to do it all day long, but its seven dps with no tanks or healers.

A guild is a wonderful thing to connect you to other players and give you other people to play with, but it isn't reasonable to expect that most guilds are going to be full of people who want to do all the same things as you, as much as you, at the exact same time as you, and have all the right people and in the right roles to do so, always. You should expect to be able to play with guildies some or even most of the time, but not all of the time if you like doing content that is outside the guild's primary focus.

(I don't even know why you're talking about boosting or paying for runs. PuGing is not synonymous with paid runs/boosts. All it means is playing with an impromptu group of strangers)

[Vasilisa]

RIO is antisocial bullshit. It is toxic as hell. If you like RIO, you suck at wow. Period.

Sorry mate but players with higher Rio are less likely to fail and leave mid-dungeon then low-score ones (at least to my experience). I just want bigger chances of finishing dungeon in time, it's far from toxic. Toxic would be if I'd quit the group "for laugh" after the timer has started.