Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Ivanstone]

So, they were just ignorant cucks in all of this?

I'm going to go by willful actions they took... which I pointed out.

If you are going to say that the EPA lied to the mayor, I expect some evidence.

If you are going to say that the city leaders were lied to the entire time, I expect some evidence.

Pretty much.

The EPA actually fucked up this one.

I'm sure the prosecution will do that for me.

[Machismo]

Can’t keep up? I explained how you support increasing the influence that got those laws passed. Any kid could see you support both those laws and more like them. You just say ewwww to hide the fact that you fully support those laws being passed because the people who pushed them had enough financial influence to do so.

Two questions. Feel free to pick either one.

Which points back to those other groups. Do you oppose their influence that they are pushing?

So, to be clear, you oppose the influence that BLM and Planned Parenthood have in trying to push their causes... good enough.

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Pretty much.

The EPA actually fucked up this one.

I'm sure the prosecution will do that for me.

So, you have no evidence for your claims, and you simply want to ignore the timeline...

[Machismo]

Going on faith here, but you really gotta answer the questions(yes, it’s now both) after this.

I support banning PACs and Corporatist influence on our political process. Groups can organize to influence public opinion, but they should NEVER be giving some politician $100M to get them to see things their way. Money isn’t what should influence policy. The overall desires of society should.

Before you try a gotcha... Yep, that means we’d have times like we’ve seen in history. The point is changing public opinion on shit like slavery so that it’s untenable for a politician to support such policies. When enough money overcomes shit policies the wealthy decide everything. Which we see too much of now. I know you agree with that last bit(too much corporatist policies and the like), so why do you want to increase their ability to continue to do so? They aren’t people. They may represent people, but it’s the individuals who ultimately matter.... weird I have to explain this to a libertarian.

So, you don't believe BLM and Planned Parenthood should have an influence on our political process.

Good enough for me!!!

[Machismo]

Stop. Lying. About. Me. Not even close to what I said there. Now, you have two questions to answer. Get on it.

Well, both of those are spending a lot of money to lobby, including giving money to candidates.

That's what they do. That's what PACs do. That's what corporations like Planned parenthood do. The majority of that money is spent on advertising.

[Machismo]

Impossible to answer? Last chance or I get to do it for you.

You did know that's how lobbying tends to work... right? In essence, spending a million dollars to hold a BLM rally isn't any different than spending a million dollars on a political commercial.

I support the freedom of both.

[Machismo]

Sweet. See, what you support is their ability to pass these bits of legislation. You support them literally paying politicians directly. I support them influencing democracy via education and public out reach. Not political outreach, where Ted Cruz gets paid to kiss Trump’s ass. And since you aren’t interested in discussing Libertarianism, maybe make a thread asking about how progressives differ from conservatives.

Yes, I do support PACs like BLM and corporations like Planned Parenthood being able to lobby to change public opinion on issues. I support their freedom of speech, to include donating to politicians.

Damn, you must be fucking outraged that they donate to politicians.

[Machismo]

Yeah. You don’t know what lobbying is. It’s usually not to change public opinion. It’s to change Ted Cruz’s opinion. Try to keep up.

Well, BLM has a PAC, which they use to lobby...

Planned Parenthood gives millions to lobby...

Both of them are trying to get people elected who are friendly to their causes.

[Machismo]

Yep. And I support both redirecting that money to community education and lobbying. Just keep their money out of politicians pockets.

So, you don't want Planned Parenthood and BLM to donate to campaigns?

Well, you better start actively opposing them.

[jonnysensible]

You can tell a libertarian apart by asking them the age of consent in any territory which they will tell you with no hesitation and then talk about their desire to abolish it.

[jonnysensible]

Damn... you just called Libertarians pedo’s. Rozz ain’t gonna appreciate that...

noo i just got off a 5 week ban for denying the existence of Canada, can a man not make a joke in this day and age.

but seriously libertarians suck.

If your revolution is 'we should make rich people richer', if that's the sum total of your imaginative, moral and political desire, you suck.

[Santti]

It’s even weirder when his end goal will take “thousands of years”...

Sounds about right. The only kind of situation where this Libertarian dystopia could actually work, is in some sort of post-scarcity era. And with no situations, where one persons actions keep fucking over everyone else. Like in that Libertarian town experiment, with the bears. Because why not feed them cupcakes? No rules against it, and they didn't bother her that much. Just everyone else. Such situation in large scale would create a billion situations, just like that one. And we'd have rules, laws and a proper government, regardless, after shit-ton of unrest.

[Machismo]

I oppose their ability to do so. I actively support their causes and their usage of the system as constructed until we get it changed. So, here’s your answers:

Supporting increased special interest and corporation financial influence: Why shouldn’t the rich decide everything?
Privatized infrastructure kicking ass: Never happened

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Damn... you just called Libertarians pedo’s. Rozz ain’t gonna appreciate that...

Well, you are helping to promote the cause of corporations and lobbyists...

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It’s even weirder when his end goal will take “thousands of years”...

I've been trying to talk about short-term goals, you guys want to ignore that.

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Sounds about right. The only kind of situation where this Libertarian dystopia could actually work, is in some sort of post-scarcity era. And with no situations, where one persons actions keep fucking over everyone else. Like in that Libertarian town experiment, with the bears. Because why not feed them cupcakes? No rules against it, and they didn't bother her that much. Just everyone else. Such situation in large scale would create a billion situations, just like that one. And we'd have rules, laws and a proper government, regardless, after shit-ton of unrest.

Which is why I've been trying to talk about short-term goals. Would you like to address those?

[Machismo]

And we’ve pointed out that your short term goals are unrealistic. Let’s say we reduce spending to the minimum requirement for this year. Now you want no increase for 5 years. Sorry, inflation.

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Where am I supporting corporations and lobbyists? Go ahead, point to an example. Supporting causes isn’t the same thing. That’s what YOU do. Fuck, you want to expand their influence. As admitted.

What is unrealistic about opposing abortion regulations, legalizing marijuana, or stopping spending increases for 5 years?

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And we’ve pointed out that your short term goals are unrealistic. Let’s say we reduce spending to the minimum requirement for this year. Now you want no increase for 5 years. Sorry, inflation.

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Where am I supporting corporations and lobbyists? Go ahead, point to an example. Supporting causes isn’t the same thing. You support corps and lobbyists. Fuck, you want to expand their influence. As admitted.

You are supporting the policy they are pushing. Remember?

Of course, if you want to state on the record that you oppose BLM's stated goals and Planned Parenthood in their efforts to stop those regulations, let me know.

[Machismo]

Read the post. I explained. And what have you done to legalize marijuana? Come July 1 I have 2 states under my belt on that account.

I've oppose marijuana regulations, and supported legalization.

God damn, I love my consistency.

[Santti]

I'd like to know what, exactly, you want to receive less spending. Have we even determined that as of yet, or is it still at the empty slogan stage?

[Machismo]

Sorry, posting on message boards doesn’t count. As per your rules we know that’s all you do. Nice try though.

More baseless claims...

I sure hope you didn't lobby people to make those changes, because that would be really ironic.

[Machismo]

I'd like to know what, exactly, you want to receive less spending. Have we even determined that as of yet, or is it still at the empty slogan stage?

I have stated a simple freeze on spending increases, so that every department is able to receive the exact same as they did the previous year.

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Everything, but mostly anything that’s not cops or politicians. Everything else should be privatized. Yes, those are his actual stated options. Oh, and government is voluntary, but they can force you to submit to another government’s laws.

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Sorry, your rules. Shouldn’t have set them so rigidly.

Well, if this is you admitting to supporting corporatism, I will continue to enjoy the irony.

Unlike you, I support the actions of Planned parenthood and BLM.

[Machismo]

It’s amazing that you continually draw such fallacious conclusions despite repeated proof to the contrary. It’s almost like the Trumpist is projecting, weird.

This is exactly how Planned Parenthood and BLM are using their funding. Once again, if you don't like it, take it up with them.

I'll continue supporting their freedom to lobby.

[Santti]

Everything, but mostly anything that’s not cops or politicians. Everything else should be privatized. Yes, those are his actual stated options. Oh, and government is voluntary, but they can force you to submit to another government’s laws.

Oh, right. The privatization angle. I actually managed to totally forget that. Silly me. And if memory serves, cops would also be privatized. Because... consistency? Fuck it, if it even works. Crowbar an ideology in, regardless.

[Endus]

I have stated a simple freeze on spending increases, so that every department is able to receive the exact same as they did the previous year.

Which ignores inflation and population growth.

Meaning your proposal directly leads to those struggling in poverty facing increased hardship and suffering as the programs that they rely on get choked with effectively reduced funding, year after year.

Which is why your proposal gets rejected. It is empty and willfully ignorant, relying on simplicity in place of actual understanding. It's not really any different than the nuts who propose a flat tax; same net result, same reliance on an overly-simplistic bit of rhetoric that simply does not produce the outcomes they suggest.