If Blizzard makes their own Raider.IO, do you think it's time for rated MM in M+?

[aceperson]

What actually happened was that the OP made it sound like some streamer had some inside knowledge (if you don't believe me read it again.) Someone clarifying that the basic point discussed isn't super secret info that we have to trust a streamer for isn't an attack unless your skin is a micron thick. And your position is illogical anyway because the context of the discussion was never Blizzard good versus Blizzard bad. IMO save your rage for a time it makes at least a little sense.

a person clearly not being well informed does not call for hostility. not everyone follows mmochamp and wowhead datamining. there are plenty of people who use this site and don't look at datamining on purpose. THAT'S why i call felplague a shill. they don't stop to consider logic and nuance. anyways. i'm not going to derail the thread any further since this explanation should suffice. please know i'm not going to respond to something off topic.

[rhorle]

No offense, but how often is a +25 tank really going to queue into the ranked matchmaking unless they WANT to carry lower level players?

Why design a system that good players will avoid anyways? The assumptions are being fair if you have a realistic grasp on the way the game works.

[chiddie]

Why design a system that good players will avoid anyways? The assumptions are being fair if you have a realistic grasp on the way the game works. If no one is agreeing with you maybe look with in rather then trying to blame everyone else for being wrong.

It won’t work, it just simply can’t. Tanks and healers are so few they know they will often be invited in runs THEY choose to apply regardless their skill or rio, why should they use an automatic MM that will mean failing 9 on 10 instead? Waiting times will just skyrocket to an insane degree and people will stop using the tool within one month because they will see it’s pointless. I completely stopped lfging bgs as dps in BfA due to 20-30 mins queue minimum, imagine the waiting times for a random mmaked +10.

[Raugnaut]

prot warr is the sec best tank after VDH in M+ and will be double meta in 9.1 in WR 1-50 raidng (unless nerfed ofc), you see this guy ^ is an example why Rio exist

Ah, yes, Prot Warrior is second best. It's why they are dead last in popularity, pushed keys, and overall preformance in M+.

/s

I didn't pay too much attention to raids, but then raiding is entirely different - Tank damage doesn't matter anywhere near as much, fights are mostly single target with some amount of adds (Generally no more then 10 adds, compared to the large pulls you need to do in M+), you don't even have to kite, ect, ect. While Tanking is a critical role in M+, it's simply a required role in raids - As long as you know where to position the boss and when to do the mandatory taunt swap, you don't even have to proactively use CDs except in maybe 2-3 boss fights, unlike in M+ where if your CD falls off, you better be more then 10 yds away or you die. A good enough tank can even make the second tank invalid on easier fights - No need to taunt swap if the taunt-swap mechanic isn't even threatening.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Ah, yes, Prot Warrior is second best. It's why they are dead last in popularity, pushed keys, and overall preformance in M+.

/s

I didn't pay too much attention to raids, but then raiding is entirely different - Tank damage doesn't matter anywhere near as much, fights are mostly single target with some amount of adds (Generally no more then 10 adds, compared to the large pulls you need to do in M+), you don't even have to kite, ect, ect. While Tanking is a critical role in M+, it's simply a required role in raids - As long as you know where to position the boss and when to do the mandatory taunt swap, you don't even have to proactively use CDs except in maybe 2-3 boss fights, unlike in M+ where if your CD falls off, you better be more then 10 yds away or you die. A good enough tank can even make the second tank invalid on easier fights - No need to taunt swap if the taunt-swap mechanic isn't even threatening.

you just profed that youre a giga casual, me and another poster explained that warrior stuff some post ago go and read it up, i wont repat myself toa no name who neversaw a 20+ from the inside not to speak a 24+

[Kokolums]

Look back in vanilla and bc, you had 10,11,14 million players and the overwhelming majority of those wanted a game with a community. They met people in wow. Got married in wow. When they died in real life they had a funeral in wow and people came out to line up for hours. THAT is world of warcraft. THAT is what people want.

Then they nuked the community and turned it into gogogo rio. And subs collapsed to like 2-3 million. People dont WANT the shit that is current wow.

And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.

[rhorle]

And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.

It is weird that you talk about the community being what made WoW great then expect Blizzard to fix that for classic. You can't change players no matter how hard you try and gamers and how they approach games has changed over the past 15 years. This is why things have nothing to do with rio or anything else that will take its place. People just don't want to waste their time.

[Kokolums]

It is weird that you talk about the community being what made WoW great then expect Blizzard to fix that for classic. You can't change players no matter how hard you try and gamers and how they approach games has changed over the past 15 years. This is why things have nothing to do with rio or anything else that will take its place. People just don't want to waste their time.

This has to be a troll. I have listed on this forum a billion times the fixes needed to rebuild the in game social community. Im done doing that. Stop saying it cant be done.

[rhorle]

This has to be a troll. I have listed on this forum a billion times the fixes needed to rebuild the in game social community. Im done doing that. Stop saying it cant be done.

Classic was barely any changes and you didn't like it. You can't force people to forget 15 years of stuff and go back to a time when things were just different.

[Trend]

You are in a dream world if you think it was toxic back then.

You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
B) Your memory is terrible
C) You are a liar
D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.

- - - Updated - - -

a person clearly not being well informed does not call for hostility

I thought FelPlague was snarky and hostility wasn't involved until you came in. Just my two cents.

[Relapses]

You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
B) Your memory is terrible
C) You are a liar
D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.

Daily reminder that this exists:



Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

"Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."

[Tiwack]

If Blizzard did do some sort of matchmaking with an in-game raider.io then that would do away with the keys that a person gets every week when doing their first M+ because there would be no way to ensure SOMEONE in the group actually has a key to even start it up. That or EVERYONE would be required to have the key for the selected M+ on the setting they want and probably would make each person use their key and upgrade/downgrade it once the run is over.

True but it wouldn't be the worst to be rid of the keys, just pick how many affixes you want and queue up or get a group together like you do now. Fx. make the pedestals you insert keys into at the start into an interface much like torghasts where you pick your difficulty level and whatever affixes of the week that go with it. Let it pick for you in line with the bracket you queued in if you entered that way.

[Wries]

No for several reasons. A bit of current m+, class and dungeon design is that planning is a part of the game and leads to better success.

Blizzard can probably auto-match a decent setup for you to a degree, but that will also limit your pre-planning with intended routes and pulls etc. You could argue that a person using MM will accept that and play more generic ones, but the frustration of not reaching the same kind of scores as the organizing groups will be palpable. In the end the good players will probably skip using the system and form their own groups, leaving the system largely unnused. And then we're back here.

I also think solving clinically shy peoples' problems in an MMO is a futile effort as you seem to eventually drive away more people than the ones you end up pleasing.

[Lost controller]

I think you could do it... just you would have to be brutally clear that MM could flux up and down and now allow more then maybe 1 or 2 levels skipped max.

[Kokolums]

You actually think your cute anecdote invalidates the thousands of instances in which people were completely toxic don't you? If you are saying people weren't toxic in 2004:
A) You were not doing any kind of endgame content
B) Your memory is terrible
C) You are a liar
D) You know nothing of basic human behavior

Pick whatever combination you want. IMO it's likely to be all four.

I will admit there are some people that have a very warped and corrupted definition of "toxic" that is almost 100% reversed from the actual meaning. It sounds like you could be one of those. I ran the top PvP guild on my server in vanilla. Made high warlord. I spent my time recruiting people and directing PvP battles. Lemme tell you, the toxic behavior back then was basically zilch compared to now.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

...
why use preach when the stuff is literally in the code itself, and raider.io literally made a post confirming they are working with blizzard on making an ingame version of radier.io

why go "this youtuber and his contacts and!"
when you can literally just... get the confirmed info we have?

https://raider.io/news/212-inside-sc...scoring-system

Could you not attempt to argue with people over anything they post. "HOLY SHIT, THIS OP POSTED LETTERS IN THEIR THREAD."


Just because you attempt to be a literal Internet tryhard and attack the OP because you don't like the string of letters he posted that spell out P-R-E-A-C-H doesn't mean it's a valid excuse to do so. It continues to show how enslaved you are to your own (triggered) emotions and how you pay no mind to discussing thread topics.


Go derail another anti-Blizzard thread instead.

Daily reminder that this exists:



Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

"Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."

This is the best post in here. Didn't know Mr. Kaplan sued to be so... toxic.


And who is that Sebudai guy?

[chiddie]

Look back in vanilla and bc, you had 10,11,14 million players and the overwhelming majority of those wanted a game with a community. They met people in wow. Got married in wow. When they died in real life they had a funeral in wow and people came out to line up for hours. THAT is world of warcraft. THAT is what people want.

Then they nuked the community and turned it into gogogo rio. And subs collapsed to like 2-3 million. People dont WANT the shit that is current wow.

And then to shit down the throat of wow, blizz does wow classic and strip out the community aspect of it which was the ENTIRE POINT. Wow classic is a billion light years from the vanilla experience. I have no interest in it. Wow classic and retail are the same.

Game turned in the gogorio because PvE people that couldn’t or didn’t want to raid for whatever reason were left miles behind gear wise.

Imagine SL without M+. You would be stuck at ilvl 200 since months with nothing to do to increase your “power” until next major patch, like the dudes that are not opting in even for M+ nowadays.

[kamuimac]

Daily reminder that this exists:



Oh, and who could forget this little tidbit from Jeff Kaplan in his EQ days:

"Whoever came up with this sheer fisting of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle A.)Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power."

pure golden . thank you - you made my evening

[Advent]

Game turned in the gogorio because PvE people that couldn’t or didn’t want to raid for whatever reason were left miles behind gear wise.

Imagine SL without M+. You would be stuck at ilvl 200 since months with nothing to do to increase your “power” until next major patch, like the dudes that are not opting in even for M+ nowadays.

Shadowlands without M+ would probably be very close to WoD version 2.0.

[Magneto]

i guess many people mistake the m+ rating system for being just a rating system, whereas it wil be a rating system that is tied to certain (temporary) rewards which in some cases will favor a group carrying a lower rated player and so on.