Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[Flurryfang]

Is it? Developing a new game from the ground up would take at least 2+ years, realistically 3-4 given how long they already screw around with D4, not to mention its projected release, and most likely we'd be looking at 5+ years for a proper MMO. Building a new paying customerbase is also far from quaranteed to succeed, just look at HotS or the original D3 release.

Their design is also clearly intended, frankly it's just modern game design by the numbers; fincanially abuse your playerbase as much as possible while trying to retain as many of them as possible, while also investing the least amount. A new game would be exactly the same, it's not a symptom of being an old game that has already been overhauled 9 times, it's a sign of the times. In fact a new game would likely be even worse, just look at overwank.

It is. Most older games have a life-time and rarely will see it return to the hights it used to have. Building further upon older games can keep you going, but if you want to be the new "big thing", which all the corporates want these days. WoW has had its glory days and unless we get something close to a remaster, it will not see those days again.

So yeah, using a number of years to build a new IP would properly be more profitable in the end, if ofcourse the game does not go the way of Anthem.

And yes, they have clear intended game design, but it sucks..... It really does. Its like the game version of Big Bang Theory, just boring and slow yet reliable.
I just know that it is really hard to change game design philosophy mid-game, so it would be really nice if they left something behind and just created a new IP with a better concept.

[bloodykiller86]

This expansion feels very hollow and passionless. Just systems piled on top of systems, designed to drip feed content and keep people subbed. I really hope they can turn things around in 9.1 but I'm not holding my breath.

man people complain about "systems" in shadowlands when pretty much all of them are trivial or optional to do

Soul Ash/torghast at most once a week until you get you few needed legendaries
Stygia farm can pretty much completely ignored
renown is extremely easy to lvl with catchup and when on standard weekly earnings is very small amount of time to actually lvl
anima grind is uneccessary unless you actually want all the features of your covenant sanctum, currently IDGAF lol
....what else even is there? nothing really

farming legendarys and conduits is just like normal gear farming so not a huge deal
i honestly dont see the problem besides people crying all the time about things others tell them to cry about

[justandulas]

I don't love Final Fantasy but am really enjoying FF14. The combat is more fun, the visuals are better, and the community isn't a cess pool like WoW.

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I absolutely hated WoD....Shadowlands manages to be worse though.

I don’t mean you have to be a longtime fan of ff and know all the lore cuz 14 exists as its own thing.

I just mean it very much is a final fantasy game first and foremost and an mmorpg second. You have to want to play a final fantasy game and you will fall in love with 14

Same for eso. If you go into it wanting a a wow killer you’ll be disappointed, but if you want an elder scrolls game with people then it’s perfect

[TheRevenantHero]

I don’t mean you have to be a longtime fan of ff and know all the lore cuz 14 exists as its own thing.

I just mean it very much is a final fantasy game first and foremost and an mmorpg second. You have to want to play a final fantasy game and you will fall in love with 14

Same for eso. If you go into it wanting a a wow killer you’ll be disappointed, but if you want an elder scrolls game with people then it’s perfect

Final Fantasy, before 15 and the FF7 remake, has always been turn-based. So saying it's a final fantasy game first and an mmorpg second is incredibly inaccurate. It's every bit an MMO first.

[Zyrinx]

I wish I had 125g on my ssd to try out ESO.

Insanely huge install, sadface.

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Absolutely, & that's definitely the hope. It just feels that there's SO much riding on 9.1 compared to any x.1 patch in the past, and I'm really, really hoping it manages to deliver.

I agree with this ������ but I don't see a single thing that moves the needle for me, personally, and my playstyle.

[huth]

Final Fantasy, before 15 and the FF7 remake, has always been turn-based. So saying it's a final fantasy game first and an mmorpg second is incredibly inaccurate. It's every bit an MMO first.

Final Fantasy hasn't really had many true turn based entries. Outside of the first three, the only one i can think of is 10. Most were some variation of Active Time Battles, which is similar but not quite the same. 11 and 14 are MMOs, 12 had an odd combination of ATB and free movement.

[Zyrinx]

Remove WoW or whatever game you have in that SSD. ESO is going to be your new main game. Is worth it.

I like the way you think my friend. Maybe I will.

[ashblond]

Personally, I found WoD to be far better than this. This was not an expansion to be dismissed lightly; this was an expansion to be thrown with great force.

Any previous expansion was better than SL, by far.

[Antero]

Shadowlands is the hollow husk of far better expansions past. It's as if every gameplay decision is designed by a team of accountants who have never actually played WoW, just faceless suits counting MAU's and token sales and scrutinizing engagement metrics. This game is rotten to the core, and it's sad people are still paying Blizzard for the privilege.

[Nyel]

I still can't decide for myself if Shadowlands is worse than BfA or not. After BfA, Blizzard needed to come back with a BANG! like they did with Legion. Shadowlands definitely was the opposite - but I haven't made up my mind yet. Shadowlands still is young and the first weeks were miles ahead of BfA, but in the end?

[Toppy]

I still can't decide for myself if Shadowlands is worse than BfA or not. After BfA, Blizzard needed to come back with a BANG! like they did with Legion. Shadowlands definitely was the opposite - but I haven't made up my mind yet. Shadowlands still is young and the first weeks were miles ahead of BfA, but in the end?

BfA was also somewhat praised at the very start too. WoD was praised at the start.

Legion was hated at the start due to how many half assed and not thought out gameplay systems that they introduced and fixed over months.

[Nyel]

BfA was also somewhat praised at the very start too. WoD was praised at the start.

Legion was hated at the start due to how many half assed and not thought out gameplay systems that they introduced and fixed over months.

I don’t remember anyone praising BfA. From my experience it was universally hated, due to the horrible faction war theme and Azerite gear, which was abysmal until major revamps and essences in 8.2.

I remember people praising the setting and art, which was understandable, but seems to be the only praise WoW gets nowadays.

[Toppy]

I don’t remember anyone praising BfA. From my experience it was universally hated, due to the horrible faction war theme and Azerite gear, which was abysmal until major revamps and essences in 8.2.

I remember people praising the setting and art, which was understandable, but seems to be the only praise WoW gets nowadays.

Funny enough Shadowlands praise in that respect has been somewhat of a mixed bag. People admit it looks great, but a common complaint i see leveled at it, is that while fantastic looking and neat, it's not really Warcraft. That its like someone just shoved another setting into Warcraft and we're told to not question it.

[Nyel]

Funny enough Shadowlands praise in that respect has been somewhat of a mixed bag. People admit it looks great, but a common complaint i see leveled at it, is that while fantastic looking and neat, it's not really Warcraft. That its like someone just shoved another setting into Warcraft and we're told to not question it.

I totally agree with that. Shadowlands looks good, yes. But for me in most parts it’s just not Warcraft. It feels completely detached from the Warcraft franchise and I dislike the lore and retcons in Shadowlands as well. It’s just a mess.

[Toppy]

I totally agree with that. Shadowlands looks good, yes. But for me in most parts it’s just not Warcraft. It feels completely detached from the Warcraft franchise and I dislike the lore and retcons in Shadowlands as well. It’s just a mess.

What makes it worse is that the new starting experience: Exiles Reach, has such a nostalgic, warcraft feel to it. So its like, here is blizzard showing us that they can give us exactly that goodness. And then Shadowlands is the exact opposite. Shadowlands is someone on the art teams personal project they got the go ahead to slam into Warcraft.

[TidalConflux]

To me, the best this expansion could get is Legion tier (mid pack for my opinion) if it expanded upon and added more to its systems to help even it out -- hopefully on a timeline faster than Legion.

The issue with SL over Legion is going to be the disconnect in story to Azeroth. Usually people find more interest in stories that have consequences for the world their character is in -- and nothing so far shows this. People may like the aspect of the afterlife explorations and the general concepts with the four zones (I find myself in this camp) -- but outside of that, if you dont have that connection: you're going to hate the story and not care. Legion at least had the imminent BL "threat" and only slipped off the tracks when we somehow ended up on Argus to fight a Titan.

[Nyel]

What makes it worse is that the new starting experience: Exiles Reach, has such a nostalgic, warcraft feel to it. So its like, here is blizzard showing us that they can give us exactly that goodness. And then Shadowlands is the exact opposite. Shadowlands is someone on the art teams personal project they got the go ahead to slam into Warcraft.

Yeah it’s a pity. I hate how they try to connect all the lose ends to Shadowlands, I hate that Denathrius is the head of the Nathrezim and the Jailer sent the Nathrezim to the Legion or whatever... this is all so silly and idiotic, I can’t even tell. They try to make the Jailer someone who clearly isn’t. You can’t develop a Sargeras level villain within a sole expansion or even less like that, yet Blizzard‘s writer try to achieve exactly that and they fail massively. For me the Jailer is no threat, he’s a clown. But he is the mastermind behind the creation of the Lich King and the Legion stuff etc? I shake my head and lol.

[ro9ue]

Remove WoW or whatever game you have in that SSD. ESO is going to be your new main game. Is worth it.

This happened to me. I'm watching ESO continually get better and WoW continually get worse. Once I got fully invested in ESO crafting, thievery, customization, story and lore... I looked back at WoW and just cleared it off my drive. Truth is for WoW to catch up to what ESO is now it's going to take a massive update that won't happen until 10.0 and that's potentially 2 years away.

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What makes it worse is that the new starting experience: Exiles Reach, has such a nostalgic, warcraft feel to it. So its like, here is blizzard showing us that they can give us exactly that goodness. And then Shadowlands is the exact opposite. Shadowlands is someone on the art teams personal project they got the go ahead to slam into Warcraft.

Agreed. Exile's reach was my favorite Shadowlands content lol. And I'm a 800+ days played veteran, but it really hit a modern vanilla feels for me.

[Toppy]

I'm not going to lie to you but...The first time i did Thieves Guild i was impressed how fun it was. But not only that, its also useful in order to make gold + getting important skills. Being a Nightblade is so freaking fun in ESO.

The only thing i didnt like about ESO, is that for a new player, it make take a Month or 2, to get professions research done. It took me a lot of time getting Jewelcrafting to max level + unlock all the traits on it, mostly because it was expensive and time consuming. Those researches takes a lot of time to be done. But at least ESO professions are really useful....something I'm afraid i cant say for WoW.

Btw....Why we dont have House system in WoW?....or being able to collect old set items and use them? (Blizzard literally invented the set items with Diablo 2, and they are not doing it right in WoW....weird....) or what about making the old world relevant again?, instead of 1 shooting everything. I mean, no wonder why people leave WoW fast, once they do the endgame content they are more than done with the game.

For some reason the modern dev team has a massive hate boner for player housing. Remember when they claimed to have given us player housing via that garrison system which lacked the most important aspect of player housing? The customization? Hard to forget that bullshit.

[Mightytasty]

The Good:
-Chromie Time
-Shadowlands leveling
-PvP vendors
-No endless power grind
-Craftable legendaries that augment gameplay
-Titanforging removed
-Alt friendliness

The bad:
-Covenant restrictions
-Renown
-Choreghast
-PvP gear in PvE
-PvP gear being rating-locked
-World Quests 2.0

The ugly:
-The story
-Soulbinds
-Conduits
-The great vault
-The anima system & covenant sanctum upgrades