Ardenweald Assault [Massive Spoilers]

[sighy]

what??? fusing and entering the wildseed? what bullshit is that?

and people would saying to the four winds how horde would have vol'jin as loa by their side for now on, what a joke

At least we get to debate, who got Warchief Rouletted the hardest... Vol'jin who did nothing and even his spirit seems to be about to die? Garrosh, who suddenly turned into an orc supremacist and got killstolen by Thrall and tortured in afterlife? or Sylvanas, whose journey of character assassination is still ongoing?

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on who's writing. Malfurion could have mopped the floor with Azshara at one point much less in Cata she confronts him and was saying she was supposed to keep him out of Hyjal.....except you know a good way to do that? Killing him, which she didn't to which I infer she did not have the ability to do so. Then she's magically a raid boss still. We really don't know the extent of the power given to Sylvanas by the Jailer, but we did know the power given to Azshara being that she was transformed into a naga to survive the water which was the deal. Pretty sure, however, that if Tyrande with the overwhelming power she has(Night Fae quests hammer that home) if she can't then we most certainly need a raid and might not.

Well there have been a couple reasons for that working. Malfurion had home turf advantage in Darkshore and he was out of comission, when she was a Raid Boss several years later. For Ragnaros, in Cata it worked, because you were going into the place he was his most powerful to end him once and for all. Generally defeating the Raid Boss before raids usually serves to imply that they are cornered and this is their final stand.

Sylvanas ont he other hand is going on the offensive, with the Jailer to get all the sigils and fulfill their scheme, in which case it's important to build the threat up as insurmountable. There are ways for the story to be written allowing Sylvanas to "win" without diminishing Tyrande, but do we really have the confidence in Blizz to write it that way? I doubt it

[Leyre]

Can we please get rid of danuser?

[TheFirstOnes]

No they don't have anything to do with the Jailer as it stands with what was said. He specifically chose not to rescue him which he CLEARLY had the means to do so. The Nathrezim instead went to do it which means that it was not at the Jailer's bidding which means they aren't subservient to him.

Except the Dreadlords literally go to HIM with the Fatescribe...

It's likely just possible Zovaal is sending the "unseen guests" after Denathrius, while he and Sylvanas fulfill their roles in the meantime. Reminder, Zovaal never really said that Denathrius was a waste. Just that he fulfilled his part in the mission, which is true. He did fulfill his part. He and the Unseen guests literally weakened the Cosmos for Zovaal.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys, IF Azeroth is the "secret that the First Ones sought to hide", would that mean the Jailer wants to absorb Azeroth's power for himself? He says Death comes for the soul of Azeroth, but that can also mean he'll likely kill the World Soul, but claim the power within her.

And if Azeroth is that secret, then that means Zovaal could potentially gain the power of the First Ones, and therefore have the power to control ALL existence. Cause, it's obvious Zovaal wants to claim power for HIMSELF, hence why he's stealing all the Sigils for himself. So, instead of controlling Azeroth or anything, he could just rip the power from her so he alone could possess it. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Jailer's got very similar gaze feats as Sargeras, in that the Jailer literally amps up the Tarragrue with his gaze, yet he's nowhere near where we are, while Sargeras' gaze can kill players in the ToS, despite him being by Argus at the other side of the portal, and when he's by Azeroth and the Seat of the Pantheon, his gaze empowers Argus, as well as attacks us.

I would say they're relative by the time the SoD raid occurs.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, I'm certain he wants to claim Azeroth's Titan, but I doubt he wants to just turn her into a Mawsworn. He most definitely wants to obtain her power for himself. Cause, I mean, the Jailer's very...VERY selfish.

- - - Updated - - -

And it seems like the dude's got a God complex going on, which makes sense, cause he is a "god", but still.

[Houle]

Except the Dreadlords literally go to HIM with the Fatescribe...

It's likely just possible Zovaal is sending the "unseen guests" after Denathrius, while he and Sylvanas fulfill their roles in the meantime. Reminder, Zovaal never really said that Denathrius was a waste. Just that he fulfilled his part in the mission, which is true. He did fulfill his part. He and the Unseen guests literally weakened the Cosmos for Zovaal.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys, IF Azeroth is the "secret that the First Ones sought to hide", would that mean the Jailer wants to absorb Azeroth's power for himself? He says Death comes for the soul of Azeroth, but that can also mean he'll likely kill the World Soul, but claim the power within her.

And if Azeroth is that secret, then that means Zovaal could potentially gain the power of the First Ones, and therefore have the power to control ALL existence. Cause, it's obvious Zovaal wants to claim power for HIMSELF, hence why he's stealing all the Sigils for himself. So, instead of controlling Azeroth or anything, he could just rip the power from her so he alone could possess it. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Jailer's got very similar gaze feats as Sargeras, in that the Jailer literally amps up the Tarragrue with his gaze, yet he's nowhere near where we are, while Sargeras' gaze can kill players in the ToS, despite him being by Argus at the other side of the portal, and when he's by Azeroth and the Seat of the Pantheon, his gaze empowers Argus, as well as attacks us.

I would say they're relative by the time the SoD raid occurs.

they really arent, until zovaal actually does something really impressive. sargeras literally one-shotted multiple planets/planet-sized beings at once.

danuser can talk about "titan lvl thread" as long as he wants, until they show him DO anything like that, it falls in the same category as "g'huun is worse than a normal old god" or "grommash will be the final boss of WoD" aka bullshit talk to hype up the new villain as much as possible.

[TheFirstOnes]

they really arent, until zovaal actually does something really impressive. sargeras literally one-shotted multiple planets/planet-sized beings at once.

danuser can talk about "titan lvl thread" as long as he wants, until they show him DO anything like that, it falls in the same category as "g'huun is worse than a normal old god" or "grommash will be the final boss of WoD" aka bullshit talk to hype up the new villain as much as possible.

I mean...

Archimonde could do what Sargeras does too. Sargeras is just infinitely stronger than Archimonde. Idk why people use the whole "THEY DESTROYED A PLANET" argument like that's a feat.

- - - Updated - - -

A fucking Fel Reaver can detonate with Supernova power.

[Houle]

I mean...

Archimonde could do what Sargeras does too. Sargeras is just infinitely stronger than Archimonde. Idk why people use the whole "THEY DESTROYED A PLANET" argument like that's a feat.

- - - Updated - - -

A fucking Fel Reaver can detonate with Supernova power.

because it wasnt just "a planet"
it was a whole group of planet-sized beings that also happened to have godlike powers (or in other words, the titans lol). and he literally destroyed them all with a single spell.
say what you want, but zovaal doesnt have anything even remotely close to that. hell, in his current form, fckn anduin managed to hold his spell long enough for us to escape.
why do you think so many people dislike the jailer? mainly bc of 2 things:
1)hes thrown randomly into the story and already established things get changed to fit with that
2)HE DOESNT DO ANYTHING, least of all show his supposed "power"

[huth]

Except the Dreadlords literally go to HIM with the Fatescribe...

Or they sent him to Denathrius who went "can't use that, go to Zovaal".

because it wasnt just "a planet"
say what you want, but zovaal doesnt have anything even remotely close to that. hell, in his current form, fckn anduin managed to hold his spell long enough for us to escape.

Eh, he was clearly holding back then, given that he casually trounced Anduin just a moment later.

But yes, a big problem with the Jailer is that we aren't really shown much of him. We have no real idea what he can actually do, no clue what he wants to do (or why him achieving it would be a problem) nor any insight into why he is doing it. Only reason we fight him is because he caused trouble for us personally and everybody else says "he bad".

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I have watched Nobbel87’s new PTR videos. I love the new content. Seeing Jaina switching from Frost to Arcane just made me smile, because I have done that too. Oribos looks scary as hell. I’m so excited for the new prepatch.

[TheFirstOnes]

because it wasnt just "a planet"
it was a whole group of planet-sized beings that also happened to have godlike powers (or in other words, the titans lol). and he literally destroyed them all with a single spell.
say what you want, but zovaal doesnt have anything even remotely close to that. hell, in his current form, fckn anduin managed to hold his spell long enough for us to escape.
why do you think so many people dislike the jailer? mainly bc of 2 things:
1)hes thrown randomly into the story and already established things get changed to fit with that
2)HE DOESNT DO ANYTHING, least of all show his supposed "power"

The Jailer literally held back and did nothing to us from the Maw then. He probably just didn’t think Anduin held as much sway over the Light as he did, especially in the Maw.

Also reminder that the Jailer can literally empower mf’s with his glare the same way Sargeras could.

And no, you’re wanking Sargeras. He did defeat the Titan Pantheon, yes. But the battle took a LONG time, and different parts of reality were being torn asunder from their battle. Sargeras was literally beating down the Pantheon for that long, while the Pantheon did their best to stop him. It wasn’t till their wills were completely broken however, when Sargeras decided to destroy their already weakened and fucked up bodies with his might.

Yes, they can destroy worlds and shit, so could Archimonde, a Garothi Worlbreaker, etc. There are much better feats for Sargeras to go by, and if the Jailer ends up ruling the Shadowlands in the end of 9.1, he essentially rules the Afterlife, the Infinite Realms of Death, as well as the Cosmic Power of Death itself.

Slaps any “planet” buster.

- - - Updated - - -

Seeing as how the light works I wouldn't be surprised if Lothraxion is completely mind controlled or brainwashed. Him being lightforged was probably the result of the Natherizim assaulting the light.

Possibly? He could also have wanted to become Lightforged as a “ploy”, ya know? And reminder, Denathrius is being protected by the Light, which conveniently is Lothraxion’s speciality. While I’m not dismissing your claim, hell I think it could happen, I don’t think that’s gonna be the case, personally.

- - - Updated - - -

I have watched Nobbel87’s new PTR videos. I love the new content. Seeing Jaina switching from Frost to Arcane just made me smile, because I have done that too. Oribos looks scary as hell. I’m so excited for the new prepatch.

I love the visual updates they’re giving Oribos ad the Maw. Looks so cool. Apparently there is a new Maw model that’s leaked, and it has purple in it (Basically the Jailer’s Magic’s from the SoD raid). It’s quite possible the Jailer finishes his ascension after we defeat Sylvanas, and the Maw gains this purplish color as a result.

[Moonrage]

Raid cinematics are not usually cinema rendered.

Most raids do have cinematics, exception is the first raid of the expansion.

[rainhard]

So we won Denathrius who was as strong as a full fledged titan(the guys who 1 shot old gods) based on what you say, don't you think we are a bit overpowered then or him underwhelming for a titan level powered creature, and if we are how, do you think klleia and pelagos hold so much power or that the domination piece we have is stronger than the artifact weapons while being empowered by the remaining titans powers while fighting drained baby argus and winning because eonar cheated death?

[Le Conceptuel]

Seeing as how the light works I wouldn't be surprised if Lothraxion is completely mind controlled or brainwashed. Him being lightforged was probably the result of the Natherizim assaulting the light.

I agree. I like the theory that it was an attempted infiltration, but Lothraxion being filled up with the Light (which sometimes works as a "truth serum") may have made him go rogue for real and blab, thus the Light's assault on Revendreth.

[voidox]

Canonically he wasn't "weakened". The cinematic has him essentially just fine. He was actually having fun at that.

yes he was weakened as the cinematic come up at 10% of his health. So we basically do weaken him to that hp and tyrande comes in to deal the killing blow.

[TheFirstOnes]

yes he was weakened as the cinematic come up at 10% of his health. So we basically do weaken him to that hp and tyrande comes in to deal the killing blow.

Game health percentage means nothing.

[Gaidax]

Yea Zovaal is very generic and exactly as you said he appearntly did all these things, but we are just getting that told now which feels lame.

No one ever heard of him before so keeping him shrouded in mystery all the time doesnt help to like him. They tried that mystery with whole of bfa with Sylvanas. Everyone hated the fact we didnt know shit the whole time. Which was just annoying. The jailer is just following those footsteps.

Hes model also isnt helping.

I really think they fucked it up with Jailer's reveal.

It is clear it was a plan long in making at the VERY least from Legion that would make it 6-7 years in making at least, including planning. But as you say, they REALLY needed to start meaningfully introducing him already in Legion - the very first raid with Helya and content in Helheim zone. We should have at least started hearing term "Jailer" back then.

Yes, they did plenty premonitions there with Helya and Sylv, Ilgy whispers, Odyn's and Voljin's breadcrumbs. But by the end of the Legion we at least should have had some knowledge about Jailer there, even if it would mostly be vague stuff with only his title mentioned and possible ties.

It really should have been like Sargeras - you don't see him, but you are very keenly aware of his presence. But nope, they just went and plopped Jailer out of nowhere in Shlands and casually tied him to everything with "this guy did it all along" and let it slide.

Yeap, mystery is fine and all, but I really think this has failed a bit. There needs to be more investment into supposedly big expansion threat they try to pain Jailer as.

I just hope they will seed properly the upcoming villain's of next expansion and expansion after already.

[Houle]

The Jailer literally held back and did nothing to us from the Maw then. He probably just didn’t think Anduin held as much sway over the Light as he did, especially in the Maw.

Also reminder that the Jailer can literally empower mf’s with his glare the same way Sargeras could.

And no, you’re wanking Sargeras. He did defeat the Titan Pantheon, yes. But the battle took a LONG time, and different parts of reality were being torn asunder from their battle. Sargeras was literally beating down the Pantheon for that long, while the Pantheon did their best to stop him. It wasn’t till their wills were completely broken however, when Sargeras decided to destroy their already weakened and fucked up bodies with his might.

Yes, they can destroy worlds and shit, so could Archimonde, a Garothi Worlbreaker, etc. There are much better feats for Sargeras to go by, and if the Jailer ends up ruling the Shadowlands in the end of 9.1, he essentially rules the Afterlife, the Infinite Realms of Death, as well as the Cosmic Power of Death itself.

Slaps any “planet” buster.

"ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.

[huth]

so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.

Well, change it from "can" to "was shown to" and i'll agree with you.

[Alanar]

I really think they fucked it up with Jailer's reveal.

It is clear it was a plan long in making at the VERY least from Legion that would make it 6-7 years in making at least, including planning. But as you say, they REALLY needed to start meaningfully introducing him already in Legion - the very first raid with Helya and content in Helheim zone. We should have at least started hearing term "Jailer" back then.

Yes, they did plenty premonitions there with Helya and Sylv, Ilgy whispers, Odyn's and Voljin's breadcrumbs. But by the end of the Legion we at least should have had some knowledge about Jailer there, even if it would mostly be vague stuff with only his title mentioned and possible ties.

It really should have been like Sargeras - you don't see him, but you are very keenly aware of his presence. But nope, they just went and plopped Jailer out of nowhere in Shlands and casually tied him to everything with "this guy did it all along" and let it slide.

Yeap, mystery is fine and all, but I really think this has failed a bit. There needs to be more investment into supposedly big expansion threat they try to pain Jailer as.

I just hope they will seed properly the upcoming villain's of next expansion and expansion after already.

I agree, we should have heard something small during Legion. Helya or Sylvanas, doesn't mater for me should have been used to get some snippes f the Jailer. The feeling of.. something is out there or 'he is coming' type of thing would just spark peoples interest more.

[DemonHunter18]

"ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.

imagine people saying wanking Sargeras who stomped 5 planet sized beings and yet they wank some random ass, ugly as shit character made up on the spot who literally didn't do anything and was beaten by Titan Keeper level of power and one of them was fodder Archon xd

this fanbase today is something else.

glad I don't give a damn about World of Retcons/Garbage anymore.

[TheFirstOnes]

imagine people saying wanking Sargeras who stomped 5 planet sized beings and yet they wank some random ass, ugly as shit character made up on the spot who literally didn't do anything and was beaten by Titan Keeper level of power and one of them was fodder Archon xd

this fanbase today is something else.

glad I don't give a damn about World of Retcons/Garbage anymore.

Can you prove he’s only Titan Keeper level? Cause I got like 4-5 interviews saying otherwise.

Also, when you put a guy who can’t even destroy all of reality himself against a guy who’s essentially going to control the Shadowlands and have the power of Death itself at his command and say “oh yeah he’s stronger” all because he did some feats Archimonde could do with ease, that’s wanking.

Sargeras has so many better feats than the Planet shit aswell. So, in a way, you’re also downplaying him.

- - - Updated - - -

And don’t say “the fanbase is something else” if you can’t even argue Sargeras correctly

- - - Updated - - -

"ruling" doesnt mean anything. a king also rules a kingdom, but that doesnt mean hes the most powerful fighter.
fact remains, we have feats for sargeras and nothing for the jailer. thats not "wanking" sargeras, thats simply staying true to his feats, and the jailers lack of them.
so far, the jailer can only talk the talk, while sargeras can walk the walk. that can change ofc, but as of now, its a fact.

It’s almost like gaining the Sigils and controlling the Cosmic Power of Death itself after “ascending” is a much greater factor than just simply “ruling” something. Also, being a leader can definitely mean you’re stronger than your army/capital, if you will the power. Sargeras can literally dismantle the Legion with ease, and he rules them. Varian or CURRENT Anduin could also dismantle their kingdoms armies, arguably alone too.

- - - Updated - - -

I’m not disagreeing with you in that the Jailer isn’t impressive right now. That’s kinda why 9.1 exists