Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Tadkins]

If you don't want to do that find a game that suits your tastes.

Plenty are doing just that. Not sure that is going to be good for the health of WoW though. What will happen when no one but the elitists are left paying for the game?

Not everyone wants to or is able to treat this game like a Rocky montage where we must "rise to the challenge and overcome!". If there is nothing left for us, why stay?

[TheRevenantHero]

Yes.

Because you don't have to treat wow like a job. I have gotten CE this tier raiding six hours a week. If anything the grinding needed to cap conduits takes far longer then getting CE.

The problem is we can't actively break the games gearing system because people are envious that harder content offers better rewards. This entire thread is driven by blind envy. It is this mentality of "well I play a lot I deserve rewards" that has lead to all these grind systems being added to the game.

If you want better improve. If you don't want to do that find a game that suits your tastes.

No. Most of this server is people being tossed to the wayside because they're not playing the highest end of content. If you're not doing m+15 or mythic raiding, you get next to no meaningful rewards. Mentalities likes yours are incredibly toxic. You're just being an elitist and gatekeeping. It's why WoW's community is a cesspool now.

[TidalConflux]

Wasnt this the argument against titanforging?

[T-34]

So, basically, if someone doesn't treat WoW as a job, they're bad. Got it.

I wouldn't want to group with you, either. I have a job already, and they pay me, not the other way around.

Please point me out where I used the word "bad"?

Entitled does not equal bad, entitled means someone who feels that other players should carry him. Yes, there is a lot of bad players among the entitled, but not all entitled are bad players.

Competitive means that someone has fun being the best he can be and measure himself against others. Competitive doesn't mean that you are a no-lifer or world 1st player. I have met disabled/very old competitive players that objectivly aren't good, but they are competitive.

The big difference between competitive and entitled players is that the competitive player takes his own in-game experience ins his own hands and doesn't blame others for his failures or inability to do stuff in-game, whether the entitled NEVER takes responsibility for his own in-game experience and always blames others for his failures and inability to do stuff in-game.

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No. Most of this server is people being tossed to the wayside because they're not playing the highest end of content. If you're not doing m+15 or mythic raiding, you get next to no meaningful rewards. Mentalities likes yours are incredibly toxic. You're just being an elitist and gatekeeping. It's why WoW's community is a cesspool now.

Oh, the horror! A game where your rewards to a big degree reflect your effort/game skill/social skill.
I only meet nice people when I play WoW. I wonder if we play the same game?

[TheRevenantHero]

Please point me out where I used the word "bad"?

Entitled does not equal bad, entitled means someone who feels that other players should carry him. Yes, there is a lot of bad players among the entitled, but not all entitled are bad players.

Competitive means that someone has fun being the best he can be and measure himself against others. Competitive doesn't mean that you are a no-lifer or world 1st player. I have met disabled/very old competitive players that objectivly aren't good, but they are competitive.

The big difference between competitive and entitled players is that the competitive player takes his own in-game experience ins his own hands and doesn't blame others for his failures or inability to do stuff in-game, whether the entitled NEVER takes responsibility for his own in-game experience and always blames others for his failures and inability to do stuff in-game.

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Oh, the horror! A game where your rewards to a big degree reflect your effort/game skill/social skill.
I only meet nice people when I play WoW. I wonder if we play the same game?

Most "competitive" players want to gatekeep and prevent large portions of the playerbase from experiencing content because they're not playing the way those "competitive" players want them to play.

[Lost controller]

Plenty are doing just that. Not sure that is going to be good for the health of WoW though. What will happen when no one but the elitists are left paying for the game?

Not everyone wants to or is able to treat this game like a Rocky montage where we must "rise to the challenge and overcome!". If there is nothing left for us, why stay?

I don't think its fair to call people who don't want an entire games reward structure to be redesigned for fair weather players elitists... you don't play chess and start asking that all the pieces be allowed to move everywhere otherwise the queen is to op.

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No. Most of this server is people being tossed to the wayside because they're not playing the highest end of content. If you're not doing m+15 or mythic raiding, you get next to no meaningful rewards. Mentalities likes yours are incredibly toxic. You're just being an elitist and gatekeeping. It's why WoW's community is a cesspool now.

How so?

I admit gear is given out to freely but surely there are a host of upgrades for you to get from something below a 15. If you don't do group content you have a host of cosmetic rewards to hunt down as well.

WoW's community isn't a cesspool because people don't want everyone to get everything instantly. If anything its one of the last things stopping it from descending into that.

[T-34]

Most "competitive" players want to gatekeep and prevent large portions of the playerbase from experiencing content because they're not playing the way those "competitive" players want them to play.

Well, make your own group then.
I mean that is what us evil "gatekeepers" do. We find other people, talk with them and make groups with them and get shit done in-game.

How can I "gatekeep" you if you have the exact same right and opportunity to group up with other people?
Why don't you find other people that want to play like you do, and not how us evil "gatekeepers" do, and group up with them?
Why would you play with people that you consider to be toxic?

[TheRevenantHero]

I don't think its fair to call people who don't want an entire games reward structure to be redesigned for fair weather players elitists... you don't play chess and start asking that all the pieces be allowed to move everywhere otherwise the queen is to op.

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How so?

I admit gear is given out to freely but surely there are a host of upgrades for you to get from something below a 15. If you don't do group content you have a host of cosmetic rewards to hunt down as well.

WoW's community isn't a cesspool because people don't want everyone to get everything instantly. If anything its one of the last things stopping it from descending into that.

Gear is NOT given freely anymore. In shadowlands they drastically reduced drop rates in pve. So unless someone plays the game like it's a job, they will rarely ever get the opportunity to increase their power. WoW's community absolutely is a cesspool because there's so many elitists who want to gatekeep because players aren't playing the way they want them to.

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Well, make your own group then.
I mean that is what us evil "gatekeepers" do. We find other people, talk with them and make groups with them and get shit done in-game.

How can I "gatekeep" you if you have the exact same right and opportunity to group up with other people?
Why don't you find other people that want to play like you do, and not how us evil "gatekeepers" do, and group up with them?
Why would you play with people that you consider to be toxic?

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, Blizzard doesn't have to cater to the toxic people who want to be elitists. People with your mentality are part of why people have been leaving in droves. Elitist gatekeeping coupled with barely any compelling content is showing how much the community has fallen apart.

[Tadkins]

I don't think its fair to call people who don't want an entire games reward structure to be redesigned for fair weather players elitists...

It is elitist to think that non-competitive players don't deserve to have a game and a place in WoW.

Keep asking this but have never gotten an answer; why should I sub to the game if all I'm going to look forward to is scraps and being crapped on by all the players who do organized rated content?

Your chess analogy doesn't work. It would be more like, because I don't have friends and am not a great player, you don't think I should even be allowed the option of playing chess with a computer. The only chess playing allowed to go on are those big grandmaster world tournaments.

[Lost controller]

Gear is NOT given freely anymore. In shadowlands they drastically reduced drop rates in pve. So unless someone plays the game like it's a job, they will rarely ever get the opportunity to increase their power. WoW's community absolutely is a cesspool because there's so many elitists who want to gatekeep because players aren't playing the way they want them to.

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Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, Blizzard doesn't have to cater to the toxic people who want to be elitists. People with your mentality are part of why people have been leaving in droves. Elitist gatekeeping coupled with barely any compelling content is showing how much the community has fallen apart.

Right the drop rate was lowered but the only way you got power the way your talking about is if you played the game like a job to farm titanforge...

As for playing the way they want them too... wow isn't a overhead diablo style rp. If you are not performing your role people are not interested in carrying you. Learn the rules of the game you want to be a part of.

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It is elitist to think that non-competitive players don't deserve to have a game and a place in WoW.

Keep asking this but have never gotten an answer; why should I sub to the game if all I'm going to look forward to is scraps and being crapped on by all the players who do organized rated content?

Your chess analogy doesn't work. It would be more like, because I don't have friends and am not a great player, you don't think I should even be allowed the option of playing chess with a computer. The only chess playing allowed to go on are those big grandmaster world tournaments.

You are free to play content at your level. There are multitude of systems designed to reward players who sink a lot of time into the game. Transmog, pets, mounts most of them I won't ever have as a casual CE raider.

You don't get to break the game because you feel entitled to power rewards though.

[Echocho]

Gear is NOT given freely anymore. In shadowlands they drastically reduced drop rates in pve. So unless someone plays the game like it's a job, they will rarely ever get the opportunity to increase their power. WoW's community absolutely is a cesspool because there's so many elitists who want to gatekeep because players aren't playing the way they want them to.

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Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, Blizzard doesn't have to cater to the toxic people who want to be elitists. People with your mentality are part of why people have been leaving in droves. Elitist gatekeeping coupled with barely any compelling content is showing how much the community has fallen apart.

It's very good for the game, just not WoW but FFXIV. they've more than doubled their playerbase since Shadowlands launched while WoW has more than halved theirs.

But FFXIV treats their casual playerbase very well, giving them meaningful long term gear progression. That's one of the big reasons while casuals are moving over to that game, and judging by the growth of the game they seem to be staying.

[Tadkins]

You are free to play content at your level. There are multitude of systems designed to reward players who sink a lot of time into the game. Transmog, pets, mounts most of them I won't ever have as a casual CE raider.

You don't get to break the game because you feel entitled to power rewards though.

Only an elitist would think that giving a non-competitive person a form of power progression would break the game. Blizz wants to spit on its non-skilled playerbase, that's fine, I can and have moved on. But think about it, that is one less sub paying for your content and I'm certainly not the only one. In the long run, is that what you really want?

Thank you for admitting that you believe folks like me only deserve cosmetics and fluff, and that we deserve to be stomped on by everyone else. Apparently all we should be allowed to have is the outdated stuff people like you have already used up, chewed on, and spit out.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

So, basically, if someone doesn't treat WoW as a job, they're bad. Got it.

I wouldn't want to group with you, either. I have a job already, and they pay me, not the other way around.

no, what he is talking about was legion were Myhtic raider (even the top 1-50 ones) had to farm normal mode and lfr and +2 keys for rewards mixed with trashcan players that was the most toxic game experience i ever had cuz i normaly not interact with lower skilled plqyer, that was mindblowing to see ppl die on same shit 10 times ina row and not lern from mistakes, my grp died on teamspeak every time someone died on our +2 maw carry on that yilderim or whatever the first bosses name was aoe.

[kenn9530]

snip

Gear is easy to get, i barely even play 10 hours a week and do the bare minimum, if your a casual player who doesnt do harder content then you dont deserve the gear, upgrades should require work to earn, not just doing a random WQ and there you have a mythic item, in fact gear should be even harder to aquire than it currently is, i even got my AOTC before i even started raiding in a proper team with only a few heroic boss kills.

[TheRevenantHero]

It's very good for the game, just not WoW but FFXIV. they've more than doubled their playerbase since Shadowlands launched while WoW has more than halved theirs.

But FFXIV treats their casual playerbase very well, giving them meaningful long term gear progression. That's one of the big reasons while casuals are moving over to that game, and judging by the growth of the game they seem to be staying.

Yup. FF14's community is also WAY less toxic. People are always willing to help you learn or even run things with you so you can properly gear for higher end content. Meanwhile, the WoW community would rather gatekeep and tell people that aren't playing the way they want them to to piss off. FF14 is gaining players both because it's easier to gradually grow in power until you're finally ready for hard content while WoW only offers power increases at high end content because of loot drop changes. And the WoW community, as you can see in this thread, is super toxic and elitist.

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Right the drop rate was lowered but the only way you got power the way your talking about is if you played the game like a job to farm titanforge...

As for playing the way they want them too... wow isn't a overhead diablo style rp. If you are not performing your role people are not interested in carrying you. Learn the rules of the game you want to be a part of.

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You are free to play content at your level. There are multitude of systems designed to reward players who sink a lot of time into the game. Transmog, pets, mounts most of them I won't ever have as a casual CE raider.

You don't get to break the game because you feel entitled to power rewards though.

Literally all you did was prove my point that if people don't play the game that you want them to that you are "carrying them". It's incredibly elitist.

[chiddie]

Most "competitive" players want to gatekeep and prevent large portions of the playerbase from experiencing content because they're not playing the way those "competitive" players want them to play.

Dude, really? It’s the game that drives players.

If the best rewards are tied to timed content, players who want it will try to play with people that also want to complete that content in time.

What’s wrong with that? It’s not players fault if PvE side you need mythic raiding or M14-15 for best loot.

[NineSpine]

Yes.

Because you don't have to treat wow like a job. I have gotten CE this tier raiding six hours a week. If anything the grinding needed to cap conduits takes far longer then getting CE.

The problem is we can't actively break the games gearing system because people are envious that harder content offers better rewards. This entire thread is driven by blind envy. It is this mentality of "well I play a lot I deserve rewards" that has lead to all these grind systems being added to the game.

If you want better improve. If you don't want to do that find a game that suits your tastes.

This obsession with having so much stratification between gear levels is what keeps breaking the gearing system. It results in gear inflation that becomes problematic every single time. It’s unnecessary. The only way a mythic raider would be impacted by casual players getting best in slot gear is the mythic raiders feelings get hurt.

The shitty alternative power grind systems that they keep doing are also because of your attitude. If they could just reward everyone with gear, we wouldnt have this problem. But no, we have to constantly protect your precious feelings no matter how much it hurts the game.

[TheRevenantHero]

Gear is easy to get, i barely even play 10 hours a week and do the bare minimum, if your a casual player who doesnt do harder content then you dont deserve the gear, upgrades should require work to earn, not just doing a random WQ and there you have a mythic item, in fact gear should be even harder to aquire than it currently is, i even got my AOTC before i even started raiding in a proper team with only a few heroic boss kills.

So basically, you want gatekeeping and elitism to INCREASE in WoW. Thank you for also proving my point.

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Dude, really? It’s the game that drives players.

If the best rewards are tied to timed content, players who want it will try to play with people that also want to complete that content in time.

What’s wrong with that? It’s not players fault if PvE side you need mythic raiding or M14-15 for best loot.

The problem is the community has become incredibly elitist and toxic. The majority of LFG listings are people either selling boosts or require you to have insane ilvls for content. I've seen listings for Normal runs of raids expecting players to have Heroic level ilvl. There is next to no avenue for players to gain power in WoW without playing the game A LOT.

[ellieg]

It is elitist to think that non-competitive players don't deserve to have a game and a place in WoW.

Keep asking this but have never gotten an answer; why should I sub to the game if all I'm going to look forward to is scraps and being crapped on by all the players who do organized rated content?

Your chess analogy doesn't work. It would be more like, because I don't have friends and am not a great player, you don't think I should even be allowed the option of playing chess with a computer. The only chess playing allowed to go on are those big grandmaster world tournaments.

You shouldn't

[kenn9530]

So basically, you want gatekeeping and elitism to INCREASE in WoW. Thank you for also proving my point.

I want gear to be worth something not just free loot that drops all over the place, gear should mean something and should take some effort to earn it otherwise its just meaningless, if you dont do content that rewards stronger gear then you dont deserve it as your not doing anything that should make your character stronger plain and simple.

The only place you should really get the best gear is doing raids but they have put in 3 different options to earn loot, its your own fault if you dont do the content that actually rewards stronger gear, why should you be able to earn powerful gear without doing harder content.

There has been a many times i have not been raiding and not even doing M+ and have been more than fine with what a casual player can earn gearwise.