If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

This expansion is not about Sylvanas, just like Legion was not about Gul'Dan, and WoD was about Garrosh.

Uh, Legion was about Gul’dan, and WoD was about Garrosh.

Wrong. They never said that.

Yes they did.

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You are. Absolutely. Already with your talk about mechanical classes you moved the goalpost back to the topic.

Yeah, that’s completely false. Like I said, I haven’t brought it up at all.

Post the offending post if you feel otherwise.

[Triceron]

Shadowlands has everything to do with Sylvanas, since she is the one who initiated this expansion’s storyline. She’s also an undead elf Ranger.

So?

Legion and BFA also had everything to do with Sylvanas and had more to do with Dark Rangers than this expansion.

We don't even see one Dark Ranger other than her appear in Shadowlands so far. I don't see what Shadowlands has to do with those undead Hunters.

[Teriz]

I didn't switch at all, whats wrong with you dude. You literally have no idea how to debate and its the reason everyone here is arguing with you. I agreed with you to a degree, and I stand by what I said. Do you want me to go think up some 'other side of azeroth concept with dark seas and underwater cities in bubbles where you can run around' and see what the response is, probably pretty cool, then I can come here and tell you people have shown they want that expansion. It doesn't prove anything. People want cool shit, obviously.

You implied that an underground expansion based on Undermine wouldn't be well received or popular. You even implied that it was hard to believe that there was any desire for such an expansion at all. The "switch" is you now saying that any expansion based on WoW lore would be popular.

Which traditional fantasy options are we talking about. Because Dragonsworn is shit, Bard is shit, I guarantee you if we could go back to TBC and say, hey, do you want a demon hunter, a death knight or a tinker, tinker would be dead last. And again, for the like fucking 1000th time, I agree with you. People would enjoy that class, I just don't think Blizzard fucking want mechasoldiers running around everywhere. I don't know how many times I have to say this to you Teriz, its getting quite annoying. I never said people don't want it, stop being a broken record please and respond to my actual quotes.

Do you have a quote from Blizzard stating that they don't want mechsoldiers running around everywhere? They didn't seem to have much of a problem with that when the Iron Horde invaded in WoD.

Also if you were around here in the good old days, Tinker and Demon Hunter tended to poll rather close to one another. Again, people simply want something new in the class lineup, they don't want a retread of what we already have. I even remember when Ghostcrawler joked in a tweet that he was a Demon Hunter and another developer was a Tinker, signifying how the debate raged before Legion.

I said many fans are here for the traditional aspect, and Blizzard will be very careful with adding too much tech. Again I'm going to pull the dev card on you here. I know that will be a concern that will have been spoken about in their office 100%. Something along the lines of "We know tech is part of our IP, but we don't want to push it too hard and start to alienate people who are in the middle and make them feel like the fantasy aspect is disappearing" Dont even pull the personal/professional opinion argument on me, I literally don't care if you don't like that statement.

How so, re-read what I wrote, I stand by it. I think there's a reason we have an engineering profession and not an engineering class. I don't think they want players dealing with too much technology.

Because a few NPC's doing it is different to half a million players doing it.

As a dev would limiting a technology class to Goblins, Gnomes and their ARs be viewed as "pushing it too hard"? I don't believe it would.

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So?

Legion and BFA also had everything to do with Sylvanas and had more to do with Dark Rangers than this expansion.

We don't even see one Dark Ranger other than her appear in Shadowlands so far. I don't see what Shadowlands has to do with those undead Hunters.

Obviously there were barriers to releasing a Dark Ranger class in Legion and BFA.

What was the barrier in Shadowlands where Sylvanas is in the opening cinematic and the driver of the narrative?

[Ielenia]

Uh, Legion was about Gul’dan, and WoD was about Garrosh.

You're outright delusional if you truly think that. The Legion expansion was not about Gul'Dan. It was about the Burning Legion. Likewise, Warlords of Draenor was not about Garrosh, but the Iron Horde.

Yes they did.

They have not. That is a fact.

They said "no class jumped at them like the demon hunter did for Legion." That does not equate to "no class fits Shadowlands."

[Teriz]

You're outright delusional if you truly think that. The Legion expansion was not about Gul'Dan. It was about the Burning Legion. Likewise, Warlords of Draenor was not about Garrosh, but the Iron Horde.

It was about Gul'dan opening the portal and beginning the Burning Legion invasion.

If Gul'dan wasn't there, would Legion have happened?

The Iron Horde is about Garrosh going back in time and convincing the old horde to adopt technology instead of drinking demon blood.

If Garrosh wasn't there, would WoD have happened?

They have not. That is a fact.

They said "no class jumped at them like the demon hunter did for Legion." That does not equate to "no class fits Shadowlands."

That's the same thing, just said differently.

[Triceron]

What was the barrier in Shadowlands where Sylvanas is in the opening cinematic and the driver of the narrative?

What barrier? Shadowlands has nothing to do with Hunters.

How do playable Dark Rangers fit in the story if Sylvanas is sided with the Jailer and none of them followed us into the Shadowlands?

[Ielenia]

I mean the truth is, we literally don't live in a world where everything is set in stone and you cannot live life with absolutes. You have to use educated guesses, observations and opinions in life. We're on a forum, its a place where you literally come to discuss that.

It bugs me so much, you make a statement that is obviously based on widespread discussion, speech, etc, for example. Azerite gear was hated by the community. And someone instantly jumps out and fucking starts claiming you don't have evidence and you don't have data and you cant speak for others and that's your opinion and all this other fucking nonsense. Its so ridiculous.

That's Teriz's M.O., unfortunately: what he says is true, is fact, is unarguable, despite him using his own "personal opinions", and what other people post to argue against his points is always "personal opinions" regardless if they are or not. And "personal opinions" are always bad and cannot be used as arguments, unless they favor him and his narrative.

I mean, I have him on record saying that he will not accept "personal opinions" when discussing his own "personal opinions".

[Teriz]

What barrier? Shadowlands has nothing to do with Hunters.

So you now view Sylvanas as a Hunter? Interesting.

What barrier exists for the Tinker? Shadowlands has nothing to do with them either, and I wouldn't consider leaving them out to be a barrier of entry.

Okay, so it that a forbidden topic or not? People keep bringing them up in this discussion.

[Ielenia]

It was about Gul'dan opening the portal and beginning the Burning Legion invasion.

If Gul'dan wasn't there, would Legion have happened?

The Iron Horde is about Garrosh going back in time and convincing the old horde to adopt technology instead of drinking demon blood.

If Garrosh wasn't there, would WoD have happened?

It doesn't matter who "opened the door". They're not the center of the expansions. That's like saying Warcraft 3 and its expansion is about kel'thuzad, because he's the one that "opens the door" for the undead plague. Or that the Lord of the Rings books and movies are about Bilbo Baggins who kicks off the story in the books.

Garrosh kicking off Warlords of Draenor does not make it about him, especially since he's dealt in a simple quest you do during leveling.

That's the same thing, just said differently.

No, it's not the same thing. It just means that no class is as strongly connected with the story and theme of Shadowlands, as the demon hunter was to the story and theme of the Legion expansion.

[Triceron]

So you now view Sylvanas as a Hunter? Interesting.

She is in the expansion because she uses death related powers.

Where have the other Dark Rangers used these powers? They have no connection to Shadowlands while Sylvanss does because she works with the jailer.

Even Kelthuzad and Nerzhul are back.

Okay, so it that a forbidden topic or not? People keep bringing them up in this discussion.

Do I look like the forum police?

[Teriz]

It doesn't matter who "opened the door". They're not the center of the expansions. That's like saying Warcraft 3 and its expansion is about kel'thuzad, because he's the one that "opens the door" for the undead plague. Or that the Lord of the Rings books and movies are about Bilbo Baggins who kicks off the story in the books.

Garrosh kicking off Warlords of Draenor does not make it about him, especially since he's dealt in a simple quest you do during leveling.

WC3 has multiple storylines occurring at once though, it isn't just about Kel'thuzad. For example, the game kicks off with Thrall having a vision of the return of the Burning Legion.

The Fellowship of the Ring begins with a flashback of the final battle of Sargon and the armies of men and elves.

The Shadowlands begins with Sylvanas defeating the Lich King and tearing a rift between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. She then kidnaps the leaders of the Alliance and the Horde to get tortured int he Maw. How is she not the center of this expansion?

No, it's not the same thing. It just means that no class is as strongly connected with the story and theme of Shadowlands, as the demon hunter was to the story and theme of the Legion expansion.

Which makes no sense if Dark Rangers are on the docket. Sylvanas is the headliner of this expansion, and the theme fits Dark Rangers just fine.

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Do I look like the forum police?

I'm asking because I'm not sure either.

Oh well.

[Ielenia]

WC3 has multiple storylines occurring at once though, it isn't just about Kel'thuzad. For example, the game kicks off with Thrall having a vision of the return of the Burning Legion.

The Fellowship of the Ring begins with a flashback of the final battle of Sargon and the armies of men and elves.

The Shadowlands begins with Sylvanas defeating the Lich King and tearing a rift between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. She then kidnaps the leaders of the Alliance and the Horde to get tortured int he Maw. How is she not the center of this expansion?

You missed the entire point. And again, Sylvanas is not the focus of this expansion. She is just the one that heralded the expansion. The expansion's focus is the Jailer and the Shadowlands, and not Sylvanas.

Likewise, the focus of Legion was Sargeras and the Burning Legion, and not Gul'dan. And Warlords of Draenor was about the Iron Horde, not Garrosh.

Which makes no sense if Dark Rangers are on the docket. Sylvanas is the headliner of this expansion, and the theme fits Dark Rangers just fine.

Except the dark rangers are not involved at all in this expansion. Sylvanas being part of it is meaningless, because she is a lone agent. Her Dark Rangers did not follow her.

[Alcsaar]

Necromancer.

Should have been done this expac.

[bloodkin]

Hahahahahahahahaha why cant we use laughing emojis on this forum.

I just find it so frustrating when people literally, they literally just cannot put themselves in others shoes and try to picture what they're saying and try to either show them they're wrong, find a middle ground (agree on certain parts) or agree to disagree. Its always insulting, you're entitled, OP wants everything with no work, OP is just lazy, or other stupid comments. When truth is, all I want to do is understand peoples pov, and try to discuss ways the game could be made even better/improved.

Its hard to do that without using personal opinions lol.

but that's the whole point of this thread: there will never be a satisfactory answer to the question. WE don't know what blizz is going to do in any following xpacs and with that comes the same uncertainty of not knowing which, IF ANY class could be added next. I honestly don't expect blizz to add another class to the game, they are far more likely to give some (not all) classes a 4th (or 3rd) spec, with adding more over time.

classes such as necromancer, dark ranger/shadow hunter could also be added (as they actually have a connection to existing classes, which imo makes it actually more likely to be added, rather than a class that has no connection to any existing classes). However, added 4 or 5, maybe 6 specs might be easier, half (if not more) of the abilities, talents skills etc. are already in the game (by virtue of being part of an existing class) and could reuse older spells and abilities. Balancing these new specs could make it somewhat more complex to balance out loot pools, but otherwise shouldn't be too hard to balance with the use of already existing set of spells.

The second and probably the most important problem with this thread is that it attracts certain poster(s) that can go endlessly in circles coming with the same backwards ass thinking and arguments while never understanding the other people in the thread or their arguments. This results in them regurgitating the same arguments that have been refuted a dozen times over. These specific posters can't drop it, because they NEED everyone to agree with them, even if their arguments, opinions and ideas are extremely bad and toxic. I do not know where this inability to understand even to most basic arguments and thought processes comes from, but it seems as if they need help. (If at any point you feel that this is addressed to you, it is your own fault and you should do some reflecting on your behavior, both on-and offline).

[Jinpachi]

The only unique class left to add is the Bard. Buffs, Debuffs, Provocation/Peacemaking, some rudimentary melee and casting, and some actual damage via high/low frequency sonic attacks. Everything else mentioned already exists in the game.

[Teriz]

No I didn't lol wtf. I said that you were seriously suggesting that everyone's just begging for an underground expansion, and I was laughing at how silly that is, nobody is begging for underground content. That doesn't mean nobody would like it, it wouldn't be popular, or received well. You're digging yourself into a hole now.

I said that I don't think that people want that expansion compared to others, please, when you make accusations like that, quote me. Go quote me saying that, and ill either admit I'm wrong/said it wrong, and provide some new points, or you're wrong. One or the other. Because I don't believe people wouldn't like it, I just don't think people are that into goblin/gnome content and thus an expansion centered around them isn't exactly on blizzards priority list.

Refer back to post #5833. You definitely implied that, and I never stated that anyone was “begging” for anything.

Ok you're just degrading this argument now, no Teriz, I don't have a quote from Ion fucking hazzicostas himself stating "We don't want mechsoldiers running around everywhere"

So you’re assuming..... Got it.

funny enough, but yet again, I know you don't see to be able to comprehend this, but its my educated guess based on the fact that they haven't already done it already, to use your own logic against you.

Except they did it with Orcs in WoD.

What hahahaha you mean a bunch of orcs using heavy metal armour and some siege equipment? OK.

Tossing bombs, using flamethrowers, piloting mechs, etc.

Anecdotal evidence will not be accepted, I only accept facts, again to use your own arguments against you. Please provide a link to said polls and ill consider discussing them.

I posted two such polls in post #5855.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Ill say it again. If they suddenly unleash a technology based class on the game, and it suddenly becomes extremely popular, and we have a significant portion of robot gnomes running around with giant mech suits with rockets and guns all over them running around stormwind keep, meanwhile everyone else stands there with their robes and staffs and swords, yes it might be quite jarring for a lot of players. Im not saying that will happen, I'm saying that will be one of blizzards concerns.

That’s irrelevant because player population doesn’t effect the lore of the game. We have Gnomes and Goblins consistently in mech suits now. We even have a race in the game that’s half robot. Hell, the leaders of Goblins and Gnomes fought in flying mech suits and that is actual warcraft lore. The idea that a class reflecting this would alter the lore is laughable. We’re already way past that point.

[qwerty123456]

Why do people keep summoning Tinkerman? He's just going to keep slowly drain your soul away.

The only unique class left to add is the Bard. Buffs, Debuffs, Provocation/Peacemaking, some rudimentary melee and casting, and some actual damage via high/low frequency sonic attacks. Everything else mentioned already exists in the game.

There's more ideas they could do. You could have a ranged tank class, a mind control/possession class, etc... Not sure they would do a buffing version of a bard class in wow they already remove class buffs every other expansion or two.

[Teriz]

There's more ideas they could do. You could have a ranged tank class, a mind control/possession class, etc...

Shadow Priests are already a mind control/possession spec, and there’s barely enough material in that to fill said spec, much less a class.

[qwerty123456]

Shadow Priests are already a mind control/possession spec, and there’s barely enough material in that to fill said spec, much less a class.

They don't use it as the main gimmick and a single skill is not even remotely a spec. Just like you say Engineers aren't tinkers because even though engineering bombs have cooldowns and do damage like skills they don't do enough of a classes dps for you to consider it a skill.

[Teriz]

They don't use it as the main gimmick and a single skill is not even remotely a spec.

Shadow Priests have far more than a single mind control/manipulation/damaging ability.

Just like you say Engineers aren't tinkers because even though engineering bombs have cooldowns and do damage like skills they don't do enough of a classes dps for you to consider it a skill.

No, I say that because professions aren’t classes, and said profession houses none of the abilities of the Tinker hero concept.