1. #5841
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No I didn't imply that, if you're really reading that and thinking that I'm implying that quote.
    If you read your own quotes, it’s quote obvious that you did imply that an undermine expansion would be unpopular. Your responses are there for everyone to see, and your responses in that post imply it again, so I’m moving on.

    Back to the 'assuming' 'opinion' bullshit. Sorry your logic is absolutely fucked dude, you're making the claim "you're assuming", okay so what the hell are you doing, can you get me a quote from Blizzard where it says they want tinkers, go get me that before you give me bullshit derailing and disrespectful argument responses like this.
    Blizzard never outright states they’re bringing a class in the game, they tend to give hints leading up to the class’ release. We have such hints for the Tinker class, and they line up with hints for previous class releases.

    Except we arent talking about NPC AI's are we? We've been talking about a playable class have we not?
    Your argument is that Blizzard seemingly opposes the idea of a horde of mechanized soldiers in WoW. My point with the Iron Horde is that they were a literal horse of mechanized soldiers, and unlike player class populations, that mechanized horde was lore-based.

    So what you're saying is that the 'majority' of the iron orcs, were using technology, not traditional weaponry and armour.
    Considering that the Iron Horde was armed with Blackfuse Goblin tech, I would say yes.

  2. #5842
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Shadow Priests have far more than a single mind control/manipulation/damaging ability.



    No, I say that because professions aren’t classes, and said profession houses none of the abilities of the Tinker hero concept.
    Show me where shadowpriests mindcontrol shit and use them to fight for them or a majority of their damage or so they can become a healer or tank.

    You said before that items weren't skills cause they didn't do enough damage/heals. Even when they used to have some in your actual skillbook like the herbalism heal.

    So you are telling me that if Blizzard were to give Tinkers a spec where they shoot a taser into enemies heads to control them it would be too close to shadowpriests and then shouldn't exist? OK guess we don't need Tinkers then cause we already have healing classes, classes that transform, classes that do range and/or melee damage......

  3. #5843
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Show me where shadowpriests mindcontrol shit and use them to fight for them or a majority of their damage or so they can become a healer or tank.
    Simply because they’re not a pet class doesn’t mean that the Spriest class isn’t a spec loaded with psionic abilities. I also believe that Blizzard has an issue with players enslaving humanoids.

    You said before that items weren't skills cause they didn't do enough damage/heals. Even when they used to have some in your actual skillbook like the herbalism heal.

    So you are telling me that if Blizzard were to give Tinkers a spec where they shoot a taser into enemies heads to control them it would be too close to shadowpriests and then shouldn't exist? OK guess we don't need Tinkers then cause we already have healing classes, classes that transform, classes that do range and/or melee damage......
    We don’t have any classes that pilot vehicles into combat.

  4. #5844
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We don’t have any classes that pilot vehicles into combat.
    Probably because Blizzard feels that this kind of gameplay is best left to professions and quest-specific events, like using the Lightforged Warframes.

    I don't blame them either, vehicles would be a nightmare to balance against every class without them.

    It's not like we don't have vehicle combat in the game. We absolutely do, and we always see it used sparingly in very specific cases, where the environment or encounters are designed with them in mind.


    That's why I think Tinkers would simply have a Mech as a visual form, not as an actual vehicle. That would at least be homogenized into the existing Class Balance system.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-04-18 at 09:20 PM.

  5. #5845
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    2,677
    Whatever they decide to do for the love of god no new melee spec, give us more ranged and healer specs.

  6. #5846
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Probably because Blizzard feels that this kind of gameplay is best left to professions and quest-specific events, like using the Lightforged Warframes.

    I don't blame them either, vehicles would be a nightmare to balance against every class without them.

    It's not like we don't have vehicle combat in the game. We absolutely do, and we always see it used sparingly in very specific cases, where the environment or encounters are designed with them in mind.
    The thing is Blizzard created an ability in WC3 for a hero unit that had the hero piloting a vehicle. In the TTRPG, there was the Steamwarrior class that also allowed you to control a vehicle into combat. In BFA, we got multiple NPC abilities that would facilitate such a class ability.

    In terms of balance, you’re simply looking at a character with additional armor. So we’re not talking about something alien or out of the ordinary for Warcraft.

    As for used sparingly, we see Goblins and Gnomes use robotic vehicles rather frequently.

  7. #5847
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    As for used sparingly, we see Goblins and Gnomes use robotic vehicles rather frequently.
    Yes, because they are exhibiting things available in the Engineering profession. You can craft robotic vehicle mounts with it, which is what most Goblin and Gnome NPCs are using.

    We see Death Knights in combat on top of mounts too, but that is not something classes are designed to do. Vehicular combat is not a part of Class design.

  8. #5848
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Simply because they’re not a pet class doesn’t mean that the Spriest class isn’t a spec loaded with psionic abilities. I also believe that Blizzard has an issue with players enslaving humanoids.



    We don’t have any classes that pilot vehicles into combat.
    Blizzard has an issue but lets you do it? Ok lol. Also show me all the mind control abilities a priest has.

    Mechanically speaking a mech is going to end up being either like a druid form or a demon hunter form. And judging by your dismissiveness of a mind control spec in a class based on a single priest ability then goblin rocket boots would negate your mech because both are technology based movement powers.

    Also you assume that a Tinker would have a mech. Everyone also Assumed that DH demon form wouldn't be a temp power and look how that turned out.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-04-18 at 09:33 PM.

  9. #5849
    Tinker for the love of god plz! <3

  10. #5850
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, because they are exhibiting things available in the Engineering profession. You can craft robotic vehicle mounts with it, which is what most Goblin and Gnome NPCs are using.
    Engineering doesn’t craft any of the robotic vehicles available to any of the prominent Goblins or Gnomes. Kind of hard to make that argument when the only Goblin or Gnome mech you can craft is the Sky Golem.

    We see Death Knights in combat on top of mounts too, but that is not something classes are designed to do. Vehicular combat is not a part of Class design.
    The DK riding a horse wasn’t an ability. Robo Goblin was an ability.

  11. #5851
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    The only unique class left to add is the Bard. Buffs, Debuffs, Provocation/Peacemaking, some rudimentary melee and casting, and some actual damage via high/low frequency sonic attacks. Everything else mentioned already exists in the game.
    Agreed! It brings an entirely new class concept and gives the player access to all these sonic abilities NPCs use.

    Tinkers overlap too much with engineering, and if it was to be added anyways, it makes more sense as a hunter 4th spec. Hunters already have all the tech stuff, from bombs to traps to explosive shots. The mech (assuming that would even be part of it) would also have to be a cooldown like metamorphosis. Hunters can also ride their artifact pet as a mount, so a mech suits hunters there too.

    Dark Rangers would be a great ranged 4th spec for rogues. Necromancers, a 4th spec for priests (they only have one shadow spec vs two holy currently). Blademasters as a 4th spec for monks, IF they decided to retcon the lore to allow a monk spec to focus on weapons. Dragonsworn could be a 4th spec for mages that "pulls a survival" and is made as a melee battlemage spec.

    But bards, they don't fit any current class. It would all be brand new, from the mechanics, to the animations, to the theme.

  12. #5852
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Blizzard has an issue but lets you do it? Ok lol. Also show me all the mind control abilities a priest has.
    Temporarily, not permanently.

    As for the Priest’s mind based abilities, Wowhead is your friend.

    Mechanically speaking a mech is going to end up being either like a druid form or a demon hunter form. And judging by your dismissiveness of a mind control spec in a class based on a single priest ability then goblin rocket boots would negate your mech because both are technology based movement powers.
    Except the concept is based around piloting a mech, not rocket boots.

    Also you assume that a Tinker would have a mech. Everyone also Assumed that DH demon form wouldn't be a temp power and look how that turned out.
    The ultimate Tinker ability from WC3 is piloting a mech. Monks, DKs, and DHs all got their ultimates, so why wouldn’t the Tinker? Robo Goblin has been a permanent form in both WC3 and HotS, and Goblins and Gnomes are constantly shown piloting mechs.

  13. #5853
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The ultimate Tinker ability from WC3 is piloting a mech. Monks, DKs, and DHs all got their ultimates, so why wouldn’t the Tinker? Robo Goblin has been a permanent form in both WC3 and HotS, and Goblins and Gnomes are constantly shown piloting mechs.
    You left out the most damning example: The tinker's tank spec that they demonstrated in the Island Expeditions had one, and a permanent one at that. Just like the DPS spec used turrets, and the healer spec used injections.

    Again: The only class mentioned in this thread that they've actually teased/demonstrated ideas behind as a full class in the game is the Tinker. Everything else is, at best, a new spec for an existing class. No matter how much certain people want to stomp, cry, and whine to the contrary.

  14. #5854
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Temporarily, not permanently.

    As for the Priest’s mind based abilities, Wowhead is your friend.



    Except the concept is based around piloting a mech, not rocket boots.



    The ultimate Tinker ability from WC3 is piloting a mech. Monks, DKs, and DHs all got their ultimates, so why wouldn’t the Tinker? Robo Goblin has been a permanent form in both WC3 and HotS, and Goblins and Gnomes are constantly shown piloting mechs.
    And do you have proof of anything you say?

    Interesting you seem to not be able to link anything when you used to link stuff so easily before. Hmmmm I wonder why?

    Robo-Goblin
    Cooldown: 40 seconds
    Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
    Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
    Type: Spell Damage / Status effect
    Scaling: 4.00%
    Affects: Enemies / Self
    Targeting: No target
    Properties: Attack Modifier, Damage over Time, Unstoppable
    Cast time: Instant
    Tickrate: 2.0 per second (x10)
    Damage per tick: 9

    He doesn't gain a mech in hots with robo goblin lol. Do you even do any research before you spout your nonsence?
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/...obo-Goblin.jpg

    So tell me how that Hots having a spell named robo goblin means a tinker would get a mech? Especially when you say it wouldn't be temporary and yet it is in Hots?
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-04-18 at 10:33 PM.

  15. #5855
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And do you have proof of anything you say?

    Interesting you seem to not be able to link anything when you used to link stuff so easily before. Hmmmm I wonder why?
    I figured at this point you could simply look things up yourself. I shouldn't have to link every single thing to you.

    Robo-Goblin
    Cooldown: 40 seconds
    Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
    Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
    Type: Spell Damage / Status effect
    Scaling: 4.00%
    Affects: Enemies / Self
    Targeting: No target
    Properties: Attack Modifier, Damage over Time, Unstoppable
    Cast time: Instant
    Tickrate: 2.0 per second (x10)
    Damage per tick: 9

    He doesn't gain a mech in hots with robo goblin lol. Do you even do any research before you spout your nonsence?
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/...obo-Goblin.jpg

    So tell me how that Hots having a spell named robo goblin means a tinker would get a mech? Especially when you say it wouldn't be temporary and yet it is in Hots?
    You're looking at the ability after multiple patches through its 6 year history. Robo Goblin was originally a toggle like its WC3 version where Gazlowe merged with his claw pack ala Iron Man;



    Then it settled on its passive form where the claws turned into Buzz Saws, and Gazlowe's armor was increased. He also got a shield cooldown that reduced damage and allowed him to move faster.

    This past September, they altered the ability to the version you linked to. As @Something Wicked pointed out, despite those alterations to HotS' ability, Gazlowe still had a permanent mech form.

  16. #5856
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Because while I agree Tinkers exist in WoW, I think they're far more on the edge of the fantasy world than the DK. The DK/DH both have a major character involved in them, the two biggest in the franchise. And the Monk while it didn't have much going in the way of characters, fits very comfortably in a fantasy world.

    Tinkers being tech based are a little edgier when it comes to the fantasy part. We all accept gnomes and goblins have all sorts of weird tech stuff, but I think having tons and tons of mechano-men running around with rockets and jetpacks on breaks the fantasy a bit for a lot of people, and that's why I think they're a lot more of a risk.
    Hmmm, did you miss the amount of technology on the Warcraft universe?
    - Tanks
    - Zeppelins
    - Teleporters
    - Starships
    - Cannons & rifles (both projectile- AND laser- based)
    - All kind of mechanical beast.

  17. #5857
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I figured at this point you could simply look things up yourself. I shouldn't have to link every single thing to you.



    You're looking at the ability after multiple patches through its 6 year history. Robo Goblin was originally a toggle like its WC3 version where Gazlowe merged with his claw pack ala Iron Man;



    Then it settled on its passive form where the claws turned into Buzz Saws, and Gazlowe's armor was increased. He also got a shield cooldown that reduced damage and allowed him to move faster.

    This past September, they altered the ability to the version you linked to. As @Something Wicked pointed out, despite those alterations to HotS' ability, Gazlowe still had a permanent mech form.
    He has a mech form in an island expedition. And we know NPC heroes have different abilities than classes. How many of the actual npcs tinkers in wow use perma mechs? One Gelbin. How many non tinker npcs use mechs? A fuck ton.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker

    If anything you are disproving that tinkers would get mechs. Based on npcs a pilot class would get one.

    Gazlowes offical class in wow is an engineer.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-04-18 at 11:14 PM.

  18. #5858
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    He has a mech form in an island expedition. And we know NPC heroes have different abilities than classes. How many of the actual npcs tinkers in wow use perma mechs? One Gelbin. How many non tinker npcs use mechs? A fuck ton.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker

    If anything you are disproving that tinkers would get mechs. Based on npcs a pilot class would get one.

    Gazlowes offical class in wow is an engineer.
    You’re missing the point; The vast majority of notable Goblins and Gnomes are piloting mechs. What an NPC is currently labeled as is irrelevant. What is relevant is that fighting inside a robot is fairly common practice in the Goblin and Gnome races. Hell, BOTH the faction leaders fight inside mechs.

    Additionally, and perhaps most relevant of all is the FACT that every single expansion class got their WC3 ultimate ability translated into WoW (DKs got 2). Why would the Tinker NOT get its ultimate WC3 ability?

  19. #5859
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Engineering doesn’t craft any of the robotic vehicles available to any of the prominent Goblins or Gnomes. Kind of hard to make that argument when the only Goblin or Gnome mech you can craft is the Sky Golem.
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.

    The DK riding a horse wasn’t an ability. Robo Goblin was an ability.
    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"

  20. #5860
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,818
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then blame Blizzard for being lazy. This has anything to do with classes using vehicular combat in their Class mechanics.
    We can only consider Blizzard lazy if the evidence matched your premise.

    It doesn’t.


    Robogoblin was a form. Not a vehicle.

    "Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:"
    The “form” is a Goblin inside a mecha tank.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •