Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...ing_memorials/

So I guess cops are out there on the street taking down memorials on the sidewalks, and smashing glass candle holders and leaving the shattered glass on the streets.

Real hard to not jump on the ACAB when you see this shit.

[omerome]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...ing_memorials/

So I guess cops are out there on the street taking down memorials on the sidewalks, and smashing glass candle holders and leaving the shattered glass on the streets.

Real hard to not jump on the ACAB when you see this shit.

Yeah. Law enforcement in the US is just rotten to the core. Calling the police...on the police here is like giving a bank robber the combination to the safe.

[Zython]

Defunding the police was the most hilarious thing ever.

All police now vote Republican.

I mean, the left literally created a movement that lost them a bucket load of votes.

Cops always vote Republican. What changed.

And where's the proof of Dems losing votes?

[Noxx79]

If you can only recall a handful of inconclusive and controversial cases out of the hundreds of millions of police cases overall (even if it's from an untrustworthy source such as CNN), i think you make an excellent case that the vast, vast, vast majority of police enforcement is fair and just.

Derp derp cnn.

You don’t see a problem with hundreds of millions of cases?

So with the jailed population of the us compared to other countries, are Americans uniquely evil or is there something else at play.

Why should anyone comply with the police if they’re going to get shot anyway?

How many deaths are acceptable, and do you volunteer?

[tehdang]

It’s not utopian. It’s literally not their job to kill people.

Reform doesn’t happen because conservatives don’t want to pay for it. Conservatives don’t care if a cop dies. One poorly trained cop can be easily replaced by another poorly trained cop. If a poorly trained cop kills someone, odds are a conservative will assume that person deserved it.

Then you have a very poor idea of the kind of life-and-death situations that cops are confronted with. 0 is not the only acceptable number. It might eventually be reached for unarmed suspects interacting with the cops. Universally, it's a fool's position. So go refine your position from "only acceptable" to "noble goal."

I think they'd be pretty cool of the per-capita death by police officer number went down into the single digits, preferably the low single digits compared to the nearly 35 or so it's at now. The goal should always be 0, always. No questions about it, no argument. 0 deaths by police should be the goal of every single department everywhere. And that's all Zinstorm was saying, that he'd like to work towards 0, which every law enforcement professional should be working towards.

I've given him opportunity to restate his position. For now, I treat "only acceptable" as "only acceptable," because he used those words. If he was exaggerating for effect, and has something more reasonable as his true position, it's up to him.

[Zython]

If you can only recall a handful of inconclusive and controversial cases out of the hundreds of millions of police cases overall (even if it's from an untrustworthy source such as CNN), i think you make an excellent case that the vast, vast, vast majority of police enforcement is fair and just.

And what's your evidence for this claim?

- - - Updated - - -

Then you have a very poor idea of the kind of life-and-death situations that cops are confronted with. 0 is not the only acceptable number. It might eventually be reached for unarmed suspects interacting with the cops. Universally, it's a fool's position. So go refine your position from "only acceptable" to "noble goal."


I've given him opportunity to restate his position. For now, I treat "only acceptable" as "only acceptable," because he used those words. If he was exaggerating for effect, and has something more reasonable as his true position, it's up to him.

It's actually pretty easy. If the cop faces such a situation, they retreat.

[tehdang]

It's actually pretty easy. If the cop faces such a situation, they retreat.

Fails on account of saving others and in situations when the suspect is also armed. It does take quite an exertion to retreat from a flying bullet, you understand.

[Zython]

Fails on account of saving others and in situations when the suspect is also armed. It does take quite an exertion to retreat from a flying bullet, you understand.

Thing is that it's not the cops' job to protect people. They argued this to SCotUS and won.

Warren v. District of Columbia.

[Felya]

Fails on account of saving others and in situations when the suspect is also armed. It does take quite an exertion to retreat from a flying bullet, you understand.

Who were they saving? Why would an armed assailant even pose a risk, greater than someone with a toaster? I have been convinced that guns are no more a threat, than any other object. But, now I am told that being armed, is a greater risk to the officer? Strange...

[tehdang]

Who were they saving? Why would an armed assailant even pose a risk, greater than someone with a toaster? I have been convinced that guns are no more a threat, than any other object. But, now I am told that being armed, is a greater risk to the officer? Strange...

You have the internet, so I suggest you google about armed interactions.

Thing is that it's not the cops' job to protect people. They argued this to SCotUS and won.

Warren v. District of Columbia.

Sorry, are you saying it shouldn't be the job of cops to protect people? We were talking about future goals and, sadly, what would be acceptable.

[Zython]

Sorry, are you saying it shouldn't be the job of cops to protect people? We were talking about future goals and, sadly, what would be acceptable.

No, I'm saying it isn't the cops' job to protect people. Again, not my claim, it's theirs.

[Trifle]

No, I'm saying it isn't the cops' job to protect people. Again, not my claim, it's theirs.

I think technically the ruling is that it IS the cops' job to protect people in general, just not any specific person. So whenever they fail to protect someone they can just say "don't worry, we totally protect everyone else we just weren't obliged to help you". Or something ?

[cubby]

Closing arguments today, and unless something unexpected happens, the Jury will get the case this afternoon. For those wondering about the various charges Derek Chauvin will face, here is a run down of each count and what prosecutors must prove. Taken from CNN.

Second-degree unintentional murder
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin caused George Floyd's death, while committing an underlying felony.
There is need to prove intent to kill, just intent to act.
If convicted, he could face up to 40 years in prison.

Third-degree murder
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin committed a reckless act that is "eminently dangerous" to others with "depraved mind."
If convicted, he could face up to 25 years in prison.

Second-degree Manslaughter
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin was "culpably negligent" and disregarded awareness of substantial risk of great bodily injury or death.
If, convicted he could face up to 10 years in prison.

IMO the jury will come back with either an acquittal (not guilty), hung jury (jury can't agree), or a conviction of Second-degree Manslaughter. Third-M and Second-unintential-murder thresholds will probably not be met - even though I think the officer should be tossed in prison for life.

[ghotihook]

Closing arguments today, and unless something unexpected happens, the Jury will get the case this afternoon. For those wondering about the various charges Derek Chauvin will face, here is a run down of each count and what prosecutors must prove. Taken from CNN.

Second-degree unintentional murder
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin caused George Floyd's death, while committing an underlying felony.
There is need to prove intent to kill, just intent to act.
If convicted, he could face up to 40 years in prison.

Third-degree murder
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin committed a reckless act that is "eminently dangerous" to others with "depraved mind."
If convicted, he could face up to 25 years in prison.

Second-degree Manslaughter
Prosecutors must prove Chauvin was "culpably negligent" and disregarded awareness of substantial risk of great bodily injury or death.
If, convicted he could face up to 10 years in prison.

IMO the jury will come back with either an acquittal (not guilty), hung jury (jury can't agree), or a conviction of Second-degree Manslaughter. Third-M and Second-unintential-murder thresholds will probably not be met - even though I think the officer should be tossed in prison for life.

I think he will be convicted of 2nd-degree Manslaughter, but I hope he gets 3rd-degree murder. I don't think there is any chance he will get 2nd-degree murder.

If he gets acquitted, there will be riots. Mark my words.
I think there will be protests even if he gets 3rd-degree murder, but I hope it won't be widespread.

[Felya]

You have the internet, so I suggest you google about armed interactions.

I checked NRA page... they all claim guns are not the issue... Should I check a democrat policy page for guns? What do you recommend, other than NRA?

[Endus]

If he gets acquitted, there will be riots. Mark my words.

If he gets acquitted, there should be riots. Because justice will have proven itself to be not just overwhelmingly racist, but also dead.

[cubby]

If he gets acquitted, there should be riots. Because justice will have proven itself to be not just overwhelmingly racist, but also dead.

Agreed - him walking on all charges would be the death of justice in officer involved murders.

- - - Updated - - -

Separately - did you see the guy in Minnesota who was [eventually] arrested after ramming a police car, dragging an officer who's arm was trapped in the vehicle's window, and then hitting said officer on the head with a hammer? So weird, he was white, but I'm guessing the reason he wasn't shot was because he didn't have an air freshener in his car.

[Not A Cat]

Agreed - him walking on all charges would be the death of justice in officer involved murders.

God the defense's closing argument is frustrating as hell.

"He had drugs in his system, that's what killed him."

Edit: Didn't mean to quote you, for some reason I hit reply to you instead of the thread.

[Egomaniac]

God the defense's closing argument is frustrating as hell.

"He had drugs in his system, that's what killed him."

Edit: Didn't mean to quote you, for some reason I hit reply to you instead of the thread.

I mean, that's all they have to do...it's easier to be the defense...especially when you're defending a cop. All they have to do is put the idea in the head of the jury that it's not completely unreasonable that something else killed George Floyd.

And Americans juries just seem to look for any excuse to let cops off.

[Edge-]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1833979.html

Drivers a bit lost and caught up in what appears to be some NG convoys get harassed by cops, who bang on their cars and tell them to "leave" despite the drivers having no clue where to leave to as they're lost and confused.

Local journalist who is there and tries to help is told he can't talk to the drivers, which he can legally do, is told to stop and then told to leave immediately after, even if he's allowed to lawfully be where he is. He moved where they told him to move, and then they proceed to arrest him.

Apparently all cops in Minneapolis are bastards. Except maybe this one -

Mr Colbert said he then had his hands tied with zips ties and was passed from officer to officer, all the while telling them he was a reporter.

He said it was only some time later, when he was questioned by an African American officer, that a senior officer was called over, informed Mr Colbert was a working journalist, that the ties were cut and he was allowed to leave.