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  1. #721
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    I love this show, and I love how uncomfortable it makes people feel when they have to look reality in its face.

    This show didn't makeup or exaggerate a thing besides it all existing in a world where superheroes also exist. And that's literally what Marvel has done for the longest since the majority of us have been alive. Marvel has always tackled society's issues through a lens that's a bit more entertaining and digestible, but reality nonetheless. I love when so someone says they know the comics turns around and complains about the movies/shows being too political...The comics are political and the shows take from the comics. Tell you more how you didn't actually read or understand the comics, sir.

    This show is great. The storytelling is great. Scenes, great. Characters, great. I'm going to miss this show. I just hope its conclusion isn't as lackluster as WandaVision was (love that show, just think the ending was so-so).

    Bradley said it, "America won't accept a black Captain America". By America he means everyone. And part of the disapproval is that if it isn't blond-haired and blue eyes people start calling it "political" "woke" "forced diversity", because of their preconceived notions of 'normal'.

    CAPTAIN AMERICA IS COMMENTARY ON WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDER THE FACE OF AMERICA TO BE VERSUS WHAT AMERICAN IDEALS ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE WHEN 90% OF IT ISNT JUST AN IMAGE
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-04-19 at 02:43 AM.

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  2. #722
    @Stardrift, I absolutely agree with you. I too get annoyed when shows get so political with pushing their heteronormativity on me. The episode was fine until Bucky just had to flirt with Sam's sister, ugh - it's almost as if there's no person there any more, just their sexuality.

    I am not against heterosexuals, but why's every show gotta be filled with them? It's like there's no actual stories being told anymore, gosh.

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    It's the fact that it's needless politicization and being unable to seperate fiction from reality. Something you clearly struggle with.
    The guy getting bent out of shape about a game company making some optional changes to the game they publish is lecturing other people on separating fiction from reality? The irony is huge.

  4. #724
    I think there is an interesting parallel happening with Bucky/Wakanda and Sam/America. A white man is an important soldier to a black country and a black man is an important soldier to a white run country. I think if there's another season the name of the show will change to Captain America and The White Wolf.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  5. #725
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Steve had those kind of reactions to hits in the MCU.
    and i hated that too. Like i said, Mcu is full of shit like that, just like hulk, the one with the beast healing factor got his arm burn to crips forever.

    Essentially, your complaint is "I don't like how Bucky isn't Superman" but the Super soldiers aren't that kind of strength and durability.

    They are peak human strength, peak human durability. They aren't above it, they are just the best that the spectrum could go.
    they are above, they are super soldiers, the thing is something's they dumb then down for maximum cheesiness or rule of cool, is the floating thing in the Mcu that depends on the director and story

  6. #726
    Well that burn came from harnessing the infinity gems, it's not like he just burned his arm in a normal fire. I don't have a problem with that causing lasting damage even to characters as powerful as the Hulk.

  7. #727
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    One thing I don't like is that I can't remember where the animosity between Falcon and Bucky came from (if it existed before but like I said I cant remember). It seems very fake to me. Its like one writer wanted fake animosity between friends and one wanted actual animosity, then the directors went with both. Its confusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Exactly. Marvel has almost always been a giant “what if” these people existed in our real world. Divorcing this shit from reality and not having a couple stories here and there that deal with social issues is fully appropriate. If racism and the discussion of the impacts aren’t something you can handle, move along. There’s still GotG that has none of this in it.
    People are going hate if/when the X-Men are introduced.

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  8. #728
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    One thing I don't like is that I can't remember where the animosity between Falcon and Bucky came from (if it existed before but like I said I cant remember). It seems very fake to me. Its like one writer wanted fake animosity between friends and one wanted actual animosity, then the directors went with both. Its confusing.
    Bucky was the Winter Soldier.

    Sam trusted Steve enough to give Bucky a chance, but he did so with a lot of reservations. Combine that with "I'm Steve's new BFF!" "Oh yeah, well I'm Steve's first and best BFF!" childish nonsense, and there you go.

    The reservations Sam had were pretty much gone by the time the show started, but they'd been unpleasant enough to each other that they weren't exactly buddies when this all kicked off. Someone you'll trust to watch your back if you're in the same foxhole, sure, but not somebody you'd invite over for a drink to watch the game.

    People are going hate if/when the X-Men are introduced.
    Honestly, they're gonna hate that regardless.

    "Why didn't you give Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan a literal youth serum so we could see them be the MCU versions too?"
    "Why is Wolverine not Hugh Jackman?"
    "Why the fuck is old-dude Jackman still playing Wolverine?"
    Even before you get into accusations of being "woke", they'll hate whatever casting there is, no matter how excellent (and Marvel's casting has been pretty much perfect so far, IMO).


  9. #729
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Bucky was the Winter Soldier.

    Sam trusted Steve enough to give Bucky a chance, but he did so with a lot of reservations. Combine that with "I'm Steve's new BFF!" "Oh yeah, well I'm Steve's first and best BFF!" childish nonsense, and there you go.

    The reservations Sam had were pretty much gone by the time the show started, but they'd been unpleasant enough to each other that they weren't exactly buddies when this all kicked off. Someone you'll trust to watch your back if you're in the same foxhole, sure, but not somebody you'd invite over for a drink to watch the game.
    I get that. I can see Bucky being mad that Sam gave up the shield, I just didn't anticipate Sam being petty in return. That's on my head canon versus Sam's character. I still think they over sell the rift between them. Not unrealistic but too emphasized...if that makes sense.

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  10. #730
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I get that. I can see Bucky being mad that Sam gave up the shield, I just didn't anticipate Sam being petty in return. That's on my head canon versus Sam's character. I still think they over sell the rift between them. Not unrealistic but too emphasized...if that makes sense.
    I think it basically grew into them being frenemies; they had some issues, but mostly they were playing it up with each other as a bit of a game. The bad blood was mostly behind them, and it was mostly facade that was left, which is why that facade broke down so quickly when they realized they were on basically the same page thinking Walker was a giant mistake.


  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I get that. I can see Bucky being mad that Sam gave up the shield, I just didn't anticipate Sam being petty in return. That's on my head canon versus Sam's character. I still think they over sell the rift between them. Not unrealistic but too emphasized...if that makes sense.
    There's not really a rift between them anymore. Bucky was mad about the Shield. Sam was mad that Bucky was getting in his face over something that, he felt, had nothing to do with Bucky. Now Sam understands why giving the Shield away hurt Bucky and Bucky understands why Sam felt that he needed to. So they're moving past that.

    Now they're just a couple dudes who don't hate each other and have mutual goals they are working towards together. It's entirely possible they end up as each other's new BFF...but it's also possible that they just shake hands and walk away at the end of it all.

  12. #732
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and i hated that too. Like i said, Mcu is full of shit like that, just like hulk, the one with the beast healing factor got his arm burn to crips forever.



    they are above, they are super soldiers, the thing is something's they dumb then down for maximum cheesiness or rule of cool, is the floating thing in the Mcu that depends on the director and story
    No, Super Soldiers in the MCU are NOT above the human spectrum. They are merely the peak of human potential. They aren't beyond it. Essentially, you are mad that your assumption you made isn't true. The comics don't matter when the movies explain this to you clearly.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    No, Super Soldiers in the MCU are NOT above the human spectrum. They are merely the peak of human potential. They aren't beyond it.
    um... "Peak humans" aren't running 50mph... And I wouldn't be surprised if some super-nerd has done the calculations on the strength required to keep a helicopter from taking off with nothing more than your rippling biceps. They may not be as strong or agile as someone like Spider-Man, but I definitely think this "peak human potential" stuff is underselling their capabilities...since it implies they're doing things an unenhanced human could possibly do, which obviously isn't the case. Like, for instance, shrugging off blows from a character strong enough to break vibranium and beat the shit out of the Hulk so severely that he refuses to manifest.

    That said, I get it that the "peak human potential" stuff is probably just a quick, easy way to distinguish between people in this power class and those who can use cars as boxing gloves. But it's still one of those silly things that bothers me more than it should.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2021-04-19 at 10:50 AM.

  14. #734
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    um... "Peak humans" aren't running 50mph... And I wouldn't be surprised if some super-nerd has done the calculations on the strength required to keep a helicopter from taking off with nothing more than your rippling biceps. They may not be as strong or agile as someone like Spider-Man, but I definitely think this "peak human potential" stuff is underselling their capabilities...since it implies they're doing things an unenhanced human could possibly do, which obviously isn't the case. Like, for instance, shrugging off blows from a character strong enough to break vibranium and beat the shit out of the Hulk so severely that he refuses to manifest.
    Based on studies, humans appear that they would be physically capable of running 40 mph (no one has done that yet). So in a fictional setting that potential being 50 MPH, isn't that far off. Captain America's running speed in the MCU is 26 mph which is slow than Usain Bolt's sprinting. He can sprint over 40 mph.

    Essentially, the serum allows Captain America and other super soldiers to bypass physical limitations of the body (and potentially even mental blocks). It doesn't take them to god like levels of strength, it is just a removal of the limit. It is peak of what humans could do.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #735
    it's the same as all captain america movies - all around very well made, but kinda boring (i dunno why, maybe absence overly confident dudes or absence of flashy magic)
    Shadowlands is real world
    The Maw is China
    The Jailer is China government
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  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Captain America's running speed in the MCU is 26 mph which is slow than Usain Bolt's sprinting.
    Mmh ? In Civil War, it seems they're running a lot faster than "26mph".

  17. #737
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Mmh ? In Civil War, it seems they're running a lot faster than "26mph".
    Yes, he can sprint over 40 mph. So he is capable of moving faster than 26 mph.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Yes, he can sprint over 40 mph. So he is capable of moving faster than 26 mph.
    I don't see the point in not being impressed by Captain's speed and compare his "casual running speed" with the fastest man alive's sprint speed, and then conclude telling that the Serum "only" allows you to reach max human potential

    There isn't any single physical aspect where Super Soldiers are "just" peak human potential. Any time they jump, run, hold something, it's like twice the "maximum" any human could ever do.
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2021-04-19 at 01:44 PM.

  19. #739
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    On the "peak human" thing, what gets overlooked a fair bit in how Marvel defines this is that it's peak in all categories, simultaneously. So he can move his legs as rapidly as Usain Bolt, but he's stronger than Bolt, because he's as strong as The Mountain. So he's actually pushing off with a lot more power than Bolt could. He's also got the stamina of the best marathon runners, unlike Bolt who's a sprinter. He wraps all of those up together, and that's why the combination ends up exceeding any individual human in most practical applications. Each pace is longer than Bolt's, because he's launching himself further each push, but his legs are moving at the same speed as Bolt's. If he's getting 50% more distance off each pace than Bolt does, that makes the difference between 26 and 40mph. And he can keep that up for hours, because marathon runner stamina.


  20. #740
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    I don't see the point in not being impressed by Captain's speed and compare his "casual running speed" with the fastest man alive's sprint speed, and then conclude telling that the Serum "only" allows you to reach max human potential

    There isn't any single physical aspect where Super Soldiers are "just" peak human potential. Any time they jump, run, hold something, it's like twice the "maximum" any human could ever do.
    Seen Endus' post above.

    I am not lacking being impressed in what Captain America can do. I am just pointing out it isn't like he like Superman. He still feels pain. He still bleeds. He can still have hits that knock the wind out of him.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

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